Sorry Saga - What Hirdy Said

Anyone else getting this ... ’ in places where apostrophe's should be?

Seems to only happen in Chrome.

Edit: Also, this, “ … and this â€, in place of quotation marks. Weird.


Are you looking at posts that date back before this version of the forum? That switchover caused a lot of such errors, but only to previous posts, not ones since then.

No Dave, I just started viewing Blitz in chrome because FFox was crashing ad nauseum, & they are all over kesslin and scorps long posts, even weirder, this is how my post above looks in chrome…

Anyone else getting this … ’ in places where apostrophe’s should be?

Seems to only happen in Chrome.

Edit: Also, this, “ … and this â€, in place of quotation marks. Weird.

The real governance issue in the AFL is given below in an article below from today's Australian (I regret to say that P. Smith was one of the co-authors). It shows the problems that are emerging from the AFL's expansion clubs, problems which will become even more pronounced over time. The saga has been a convenient distraction for the AFL. If Switowski had done a governance report into the AFL, he may have found a hubristically experimental environment.

The drain of AFL cash to Greater Western Sydney and Gold Coast is not only taking its toll on other financially struggling clubs, but could delay or even prevent the early buyout of Etihad Stadium. Central to the financial stability of the league and its clubs is the AFL’s Future Fund, which the league values at $89.4 million, but has never held more than its current cash value of $63m.The cash amount is less than some clubs believed it was. They say that is, in part, because of the massive additional funding to both the Giants and Suns. As The Australian revealed in a series of exclusive reports earlier this month, up to eight clubs have forecast losses for 2015 with the competition carrying combined club debts of a record $91.5 million.AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan told The Australian yesterday that the decision to put second teams into Queensland and NSW was proving to be more demanding than expected. “They are proving more expensive than our broad forecasts suggested,” he said.

While the AFL has always said the move north would prove challenging, it is the first time a league official has acknowledged the Suns and Giants are pulling more money from consolidated revenue than expected. However, he said that the league’s initial budget of $200m over five years to establish the clubs would be close to being “on the money”. McLachlan also stressed that the financial wellbeing of all 18 clubs was an AFL priority. A selling point to clubs in initially supporting the expansion was that the two clubs would not need a huge amount of outside funding after five years.The early purchase of Etihad Stadium by the league is viewed by tenant clubs as being vital to their long-term existence due to their poor current deals with the privately owned venue. Former North Melbourne chief executive Eugene Arocca famously once said it was tempting to lock the gates at Etihad to keep fans away, “because we’d make more money that way”.The AFL would have been better placed to purchase the stadium outright before they take ownership for virtually nothing in 2025, if their ultimate aim of being debt-free and having $100m in its Future Fund by next year, was met.

However, McLachlan said the acquisition of Etihad was not in any way dependent on the Future Fund. The Future Fund is currently $37m short of its projection, and could be further adrift owing to the financial instability of the clubs. Between 2011 and 2012, the fund appeared to have diminished based on the past two AFL annual reports, which said combined profits in 2013 and 2014 of $29.1m would be reinvested in the Future Fund.As late as 2013, the AFL continued to report a Future Fund with capital of $89.4m, but the confusion to clubs surrounds the cash element compared to what has been stated in annual reports.The Future Fund was drained in 2011 when, under Andrew Demetriou, the league borrowed $55m over 13 months, chiefly to support the blowout costs associated with the expansion clubs.A league spokesman yesterday emphasised the importance of the Future Fund and referred to the most recent annual report, which says in part: “An amount of $89.4m ($82m plus interest of $7.4m) is held in the future fund reserve.” As far back as 2006 when the AFL released the influential blueprint Next Generation: Securing the future of Australian Football, the idea of a Future Fund was developed to fast-track the purchase of the Docklands stadium.

The Next Generation document outlined the plan that the AFL Commission would allocate $82m over five years from 2007 to establish a Future Fund.“One of the aims of the Future Fund is to strengthen the asset base of the competition and allow us to consider future investments to secure new revenue streams for the competition. An example of such an asset is Telstra Dome (now Etihad Stadium),” it said.In March, 2013, AFL Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed the league’s preference was to buy Etihad Stadium earlier than 2025. But he said the league and the stadium’s owner Melbourne Stadiums Ltd, remained some distance apart on a price. According to AFL annual reports the league has spent a minimum of $139m on the Suns and Giants since 2010.The AFL is reported to have offered as much as $225m-$250m to buy Etihad. It is believed the superannuation companies that own Etihad are looking for a selling price much closer to $300m.

Queue all the articles about how the saga has drained $$$ from the future funds and that had James Hird stood down early on in the piece, the future funds would be $20mil closer to early budget allowances.
Anyone else getting this ... ’ in places where apostrophe's should be?

Seems to only happen in Chrome.

Edit: Also, this, “ … and this â€, in place of quotation marks. Weird.


Are you looking at posts that date back before this version of the forum? That switchover caused a lot of such errors, but only to previous posts, not ones since then.

Anyone else getting this … ’ in places where apostrophe’s should be?

Seems to only happen in Chrome.

Edit: Also, this, “ … and this â€, in place of quotation marks. Weird.

The real governance issue in the AFL is given below in an article below from today’s Australian (I regret to say that P. Smith was one of the co-authors). It shows the problems that are emerging from the AFL’s expansion clubs, problems which will become even more pronounced over time. The saga has been a convenient distraction for the AFL. If Switowski had done a governance report into the AFL, he may have found a hubristically experimental environment.

The drain of AFL cash to Greater Western Sydney and Gold Coast is not only taking its toll on other financially struggling clubs, but could delay or even prevent the early buyout of Etihad Stadium. Central to the financial stability of the league and its clubs is the AFL’s Future Fund, which the league values at $89.4 million, but has never held more than its current cash value of $63m.The cash amount is less than some clubs believed it was. They say that is, in part, because of the massive additional funding to both the Giants and Suns. As The Australian revealed in a series of exclusive reports earlier this month, up to eight clubs have forecast losses for 2015 with the competition carrying combined club debts of a record $91.5 million.AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan told The Australian yesterday that the decision to put second teams into Queensland and NSW was proving to be more demanding than expected. “They are proving more expensive than our broad forecasts suggested,” he said.

While the AFL has always said the move north would prove challenging, it is the first time a league official has acknowledged the Suns and Giants are pulling more money from consolidated revenue than expected. However, he said that the league’s initial budget of $200m over five years to establish the clubs would be close to being “on the money”. McLachlan also stressed that the financial wellbeing of all 18 clubs was an AFL priority. A selling point to clubs in initially supporting the expansion was that the two clubs would not need a huge amount of outside funding after five years.The early purchase of Etihad Stadium by the league is viewed by tenant clubs as being vital to their long-term existence due to their poor current deals with the privately owned venue. Former North Melbourne chief executive Eugene Arocca famously once said it was tempting to lock the gates at Etihad to keep fans away, “because we’d make more money that way”.The AFL would have been better placed to purchase the stadium outright before they take ownership for virtually nothing in 2025, if their ultimate aim of being debt-free and having $100m in its Future Fund by next year, was met.

However, McLachlan said the acquisition of Etihad was not in any way dependent on the Future Fund. The Future Fund is currently $37m short of its projection, and could be further adrift owing to the financial instability of the clubs. Between 2011 and 2012, the fund appeared to have diminished based on the past two AFL annual reports, which said combined profits in 2013 and 2014 of $29.1m would be reinvested in the Future Fund.As late as 2013, the AFL continued to report a Future Fund with capital of $89.4m, but the confusion to clubs surrounds the cash element compared to what has been stated in annual reports.The Future Fund was drained in 2011 when, under Andrew Demetriou, the league borrowed $55m over 13 months, chiefly to support the blowout costs associated with the expansion clubs.A league spokesman yesterday emphasised the importance of the Future Fund and referred to the most recent annual report, which says in part: “An amount of $89.4m ($82m plus interest of $7.4m) is held in the future fund reserve.” As far back as 2006 when the AFL released the influential blueprint Next Generation: Securing the future of Australian Football, the idea of a Future Fund was developed to fast-track the purchase of the Docklands stadium.

The Next Generation document outlined the plan that the AFL Commission would allocate $82m over five years from 2007 to establish a Future Fund.“One of the aims of the Future Fund is to strengthen the asset base of the competition and allow us to consider future investments to secure new revenue streams for the competition. An example of such an asset is Telstra Dome (now Etihad Stadium),” it said.In March, 2013, AFL Commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick confirmed the league’s preference was to buy Etihad Stadium earlier than 2025. But he said the league and the stadium’s owner Melbourne Stadiums Ltd, remained some distance apart on a price. According to AFL annual reports the league has spent a minimum of $139m on the Suns and Giants since 2010.The AFL is reported to have offered as much as $225m-$250m to buy Etihad. It is believed the superannuation companies that own Etihad are looking for a selling price much closer to $300m.

Finished late last night Chip's book and it certainly gives you a roller coaster of emotions

Key observations

Dank and Robinson: Yesterday after just reading half the book by 4pm I was incredibly angry. The manner in which these clowns thought they were king of the world when it came to sports science/fitness and the contempt they saw Reid as an old guy who lacks boldness to openly view new techniques and science is incredible. Both pretty much have a view of constructing ways of getting around Reid to get the outcome they want.

Think of Robinson’s interview slagging off Hird and telling everyone how Hird was such an intimidating figure at the club in the context of this quote.

Downloaded it. Makes for an interesting read, and I agree with others that it seems to written very much through the eyes of Doc Reid.

The question that I think needs to be asked, and finally freaking answered, doesn’t seem to have been even touched on in the book. For mine, there is one vital point and I think no matter what parallels that Chip draws up in the book, he didn’t even broach the subject and it does leave a fair bit to the imagination. If he thought at any stage to ask the tough questions, of whoever he interviewed for the book, it’s a question that would have been asked and I can almost bet there would be no answer for. To me, the saga has gone on long enough and no doubt every single supporter, everyone at the club, everyone involved from the moment that fateful press conference took place right through until now wants to know, “What have you got to say now Mr Demetriou?”

And I think we deserve an answer.

…/cont

“…imagine that after their investigation ASADA found nothing and decided to quietly shelve their investigation without any hysteria, outrage or pressure from the Government, the public or the media”.

As Hardie writes, image if this saga was handled in the correct manner as the legislation requires:

“Imagine that there was no clamouring for the truth from the fans, the media, the powers that be and that no truth was constructed for public consumption from day one. Imagine that during this process no one was advised to take full responsibility and that no ducks were lined up in order to protect this or that brand”

Yes I am looking forward to his book as well. I imagine it will have a completely different slant to Chip’s. I think they will complement each other nicely.

As Hardie writes, image if this saga was handled in the correct manner as the legislation requires:

“Imagine that there was no clamouring for the truth from the fans, the media, the powers that be and that no truth was constructed for public consumption from day one. Imagine that during this process no one was advised to take full responsibility and that no ducks were lined up in order to protect this or that brand”

If the book can get the one message which is to say Hird isn’t the devil I will be happy with that.

Man, I wish I could fark up at my job and then do well somewhere else like some of those in charge at the time now at other places

I found the CHIP extracts fascinating.

In particular, I found these paragraphs interesting:

Evans hears the drums as well. Three days before the meeting at Evans’ house, the club chairman arrives unannounced on the doorstep of Dr Bruce Reid. Evans asks ­outright, “Do you reckon we have taken prohibited substances?” Reid is taken aback. He doesn’t know where this has come from. “No, I don’t,” he says. Evans presses ­further. “Can you guarantee it?” The doctor pauses to think, too long for Evans’ comfort. “No, I can’t guarantee it.” Evans’ face falls. It is not the answer he wants.

Two things trouble him about what Reid tells him next. The first is Reid’s discomfort with what went on at Windy Hill the previous season. Reid is the club’s senior medical officer. The treatment of players is his responsibility. Yet he is telling Evans about practices he didn’t condone, injections he didn’t authorise. It is the first time Evans is hearing any of this. The ­second is Reid’s description of a letter he wrote the previous summer, setting out his concerns about substances that Stephen Dank was giving players – a letter Evans has neither seen nor previously been told about. While the friends talk, Reid searches for the letter but cannot find it.

As Evans is driving back home, Reid calls. He has found the letter and reads it over the phone: “I have some fundamental problems being club doctor at present. This particularly applies to our administration of supplements.” As Reid continues reading Evans does well to keep his car on the road. “It is my belief in the AFL that we should be winning flags by keeping a drug-free culture … I think we are playing at the edge.” Reid is pleased to have found the letter. Once it is read to him, Evans knows it is far from good news. Whatever Essendon is caught up in, it is too big for the football club to deal with alone. Over coming days he makes a decision. He will go to the AFL.

For quite a while I have had a problem with the groupthink on here that Evans betrayed the Club, particularly in respect of the decision to “self-report”. That he should have backed his staff who were saying that we didn’t have a problem.

I’ve never been of that view and think that under the circumstances, he made the decision that the vast majority of senior administrators would have made.

The quotes above support the following:

  • Evans is told by Vlad that we took prohibited substances (PES);
  • When Evans asks Reid if we have taken PES, he states that he can’t guarantee that we haven’t (the lack of guarantee is particularly significant given that Reid had overall oversight of the program; and
  • Reid shows Evans the letter he wrote 12 months earlier raising concerns about the program, including the statement that we were ‘playing at the edge’.

Now - I agree that in hindsight self reporting wasn’t the right call, but as an administrator, if you were confronted with the scenario that Evans was confronted with, you would pretty safely assume that there was a pretty good chance we had a problem. Yes, its true that Hird said we were fine, but, as we’ve argued here countless times, he wasn’t responsible for the program in its totality so from Evans’ perspective, Hird’s view on the matter would have been worth a lot less than Reid’s.

The bashing of Evans on here needs to stop. He made the only decision he could have at the start - its unfortunate and proved to be fatal in the end but thats what the circumstances demanded at the time.

i agree

Evans didn’t have bad intentions when he was in change he just did the best he could under the circumstances

Evans may have made the wrong decisions but that doesn’t mean he didn’t care

It is interesting that when Reid was initially asked by Evans if we took prohibited substances he says NO. When pressured to guarantee it he backs off.

Now, in any business there are many activities going on at the same time. For a person to give a 100% guarantee that a process being performed by others out of their sight and direct responsibility did or didn’t happen is asking for trouble. The last time I looked the only things certain in life were death and taxes. As a doctor, and scientist, Reid’s discipline kicked in (as it should).

We may never know Evan’s frame of mind or motivation was for what he did. To say he didn’t have bad intentions is an opinion. Can you give me a guarantee that his intentions were not bad. For some reason Evans and Vlad don’t seem to want to talk about it. I wonder why??

So, you agree he made bad decisions! “but that doesn’t mean he didn’t care”. If he cared about his club, employees, supporters, and his friend Hirdy he should never have trusted Vlad and the AFL. When he listened to Vlad he lost control of the situation. He should have bunkered down until he had the facts from people within the club.

His silence in all this says something about his character. If he was half the man our coach is he would have cleared the air by now. But he sold us out in favour of the “Boys Club”.

And it is by this criteria that I judge him also …the fact that he hasn’t come out and cleared the air after all this time or stood up for James and the club tells me all I need to know about his wishy washy spinelessness and frankly I would never do business with him or any company he was in charge of. Same goes for Vlad a more slimy, big mouthed, character assassinator you would be hard pressed to find anywhere. As for Fitzpatrick his integrity is as shot as his integrity officer’s is. These guys make McDevitt look like saint in comparison. The incestuous nature of the AFL with it’s jobs for the boys and you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours attitude is frightening when you consider the power it has to break laws and people for it’s own sake, scary stuff indeed. One day it will all be exposed that is the nature of things …no matter how long or how much people try to cover things up a light is always shone on it eventually. I just hope I am around to see them all get their comeuppance!

Much thanks to both CJohns and Scorpio on their reviews of Chip’s book and the motivation to go out and buy it now. Great work, thanks again.

Finished late last night Chip's book and it certainly gives you a roller coaster of emotions

Key observations

Much of Chip’s story at what happened at Essendon is through Doc Reid’s eyes which is often back up by Hird’s discussion with ASADA or interviews with Corcoran and Bomber. So if this story outlined by Chip is not believed you would have to have to pretty much agree that all these four are liars and covering themselves and putting it all on Dank, Robson and in some degree Evans - to a lesser extent also Hamilton and Robson. So I ask myself do I believe the character of Hird and Doc Reid who are the key story tellers. For me and what I know of them…absolutely!!! The passion Reid is telling the story is not a made up tale…it’s a man still frustrated and hurt at what happened in 2012 and 2013.

Dank and Robinson: Yesterday after just reading half the book by 4pm I was incredibly angry. The manner in which these clowns thought they were king of the world when it came to sports science/fitness and the contempt they saw Reid as an old guy who lacks boldness to openly view new techniques and science is incredible. Both pretty much have a view of constructing ways of getting around Reid to get the outcome they want. However not asking the doctor on how players should be treated was a critical error as you had examples of players being ill after injections due to ongoing health issues only Doc Reid new of…(Gumby back issues and another anonymous who got ill were some examples). To have a situation where players go to Reid sick and he has no idea why and they explain that Dank injected them and advised Reid was ok with it horrified the Doc…obviously he new nothing of the sort… As you read example after example of what they did without anyone in the club knowing it really is deplorable…no other way of looking at it…it’s backed up to by player accounts interviewed with ASADA. The red flags however that were presented to Hamilton once brought to attention by Hird, Corcoran and Reid and the lack of courage to take action also just as frustrating. This is where I also see Reid, Bomber, Corcoran and Hirds main failing and have already verbally said this on occasions. They should of acted further once they brought issue correctly to Hamilton and he didn’t carry it through. They naturally assumed Hamilton would bring this up to Robson and eventually Evans but that didn’t’t seem to be the case. Hamilton believes he brought up issues with Robson but Ian says that didn’t happen…bit of a heresy moment. Dank was still however designated to be the gate keeper for products to be WADA approved and his sloppiness in this area is telling. I don’t believe we took illegal substances but it maybe due to luck rather than careful checking and processes. One interesting note was the one person who actually challenged Dank on use of Thymosin(Thymomodulin) was Jobe…he went to him and challenged on its status. Jobe comes out of this with almost the greatest credibility.

Hird: You only can shake your head at how tough this man is. Chip has a great line saying that some of the criticism on his stubbornness and toughness through this saga on him as coach is actually his likely strength as a future coach of Essendon. Hird was under-estimated by all parties on his convictions and strength. Was he naïve at times on trusting others…possibly and that’s expected as his first coaching gig. Hirds model is to trust others completely(very similar to his model at Gemba)…each person has a role and guidelines to adhere to and he expects people to carry them out and if any issues go to your direct reporting manager. He is there to coach the team to get better and do analysis on our performance and upcoming opposition teams during the week.
The anger by AFL on their favourite friend Evans being ignored by Hird was the catalyst of a campaign to punish Hird like no one ever has. It’s actually quite confronting the level of anger AFL displays and to this day it’s crazy that some AFL key staff are actually still employed with the evidence already put forth. Hird believes strongly no one set out to cheat(including Dank and Robinson) and no one actually did. it’s this conviction that lets no one make him think otherwise as he feels strongly he knows the truth. Evidence shows that Dank and Robinson likely never wanted to cheat but were more incompetent and lazy in how they went about their business. With no real records it’s then hard to know what players took even though the club knows the high probability considering their outlined program.

Reid: By the end you just want to hug the guy. Heart breaks for him and front and centre of this story is his love for the players and their health and well being. This is what still angers him today on what could of happened to his boys. Personally I have grown to like the guy even more and more than happy he is our club doctor. Some great moments in the book of him taking on the AFL:)

Corcoran: I have some sympathy for Corcoran as his wife through this was terminally ill and passed away during the ordeal. He acknowledges his mind was not focused due to wife and I think hearing his story you cant really blame him for that. He was the first to take the AFL punishment as he felt he deserved it which shows some real credibility to me even though I feel he is blaming himself a bit too much. What was interesting is that he recommended we don’t hire Dank as he met him a year earlier and was not impressed. He was overruled and Dank was hired by Hamilton and Robson with strong recommendation by Robinson.

Bomber: I got the feeling he was a bit all over the place through the ordeal. Ziggy report I thought was damning as it stated Hird as a first year coach had very little support or management to help him. Considering Bombers role as mentor I thought that spoke some volumes. Bomber though did try and stop Robinson and Dank a few times forcefully and you cant see how he could been charged by the AFL.

Evans: Feb 2013 - Two sides to choose and whatever he picks he loses one close relationship for good. He chose Demetriou…this was the catalyst to almost everything being a long drawn out mess.

It’s a hard book to read and there’s lots I am not putting in about investigation and ASADA. There’s so much in this book you could write for day. Definitely a good book to read and I wonder like me you come out think…what an amazing group of players we have at Essendon. Their unbelievable loyalty should not be played down after reading this…it is huge and it’s a big part on why our club is surviving. No one comes out a winner from this. It’s a sad tale that needs to end as there is only one result that can come from the WADA appeal…and it’s Not Guilty…strangely I think WADA know this but the anti-doping message is the last of what they want to convey through this appeal

That’s all good and well CJohns, but more importantly, what is your opinion of the cover of the book?

Think you may find the writer is not that thrilled with what his publishing company came up with either

The cover is to attract readers other than EFC supporters. Perfect cover.

Thank you everybody for their summary of Chips book. I see a lot happening in this Saga due to personalities of different individuals. Doc Reid, as a scientifically trained person, would obviously answer Evans he cant be sure as he hadnt seen any evidence one way or the other. Likewise, Hird studied as an engineer but more so his nature, would also want to see data or proof first. Evans, Vlad are sales people by nature.Their first instinct is to act confident in front of people, as in the trust me I guarrantee it will work 100% type, no worries.

It doesn’t come as a surprise to me that Evans sided with Vlad rather than Reid and Hird in the first place because of their different personalities. As to Dank and Robinson, their scientific training didnt help them to act more like a scientist than a salesman. It is not in their nature.

The rest is history.

Thanks for the review, CJohns. Much appreciated.

Finished late last night Chip's book and it certainly gives you a roller coaster of emotions

Key observations

Much of Chip’s story at what happened at Essendon is through Doc Reid’s eyes which is often back up by Hird’s discussion with ASADA or interviews with Corcoran and Bomber. So if this story outlined by Chip is not believed you would have to have to pretty much agree that all these four are liars and covering themselves and putting it all on Dank, Robson and in some degree Evans - to a lesser extent also Hamilton and Robson. So I ask myself do I believe the character of Hird and Doc Reid who are the key story tellers. For me and what I know of them…absolutely!!! The passion Reid is telling the story is not a made up tale…it’s a man still frustrated and hurt at what happened in 2012 and 2013.

Dank and Robinson: Yesterday after just reading half the book by 4pm I was incredibly angry. The manner in which these clowns thought they were king of the world when it came to sports science/fitness and the contempt they saw Reid as an old guy who lacks boldness to openly view new techniques and science is incredible. Both pretty much have a view of constructing ways of getting around Reid to get the outcome they want. However not asking the doctor on how players should be treated was a critical error as you had examples of players being ill after injections due to ongoing health issues only Doc Reid new of…(Gumby back issues and another anonymous who got ill were some examples). To have a situation where players go to Reid sick and he has no idea why and they explain that Dank injected them and advised Reid was ok with it horrified the Doc…obviously he new nothing of the sort… As you read example after example of what they did without anyone in the club knowing it really is deplorable…no other way of looking at it…it’s backed up to by player accounts interviewed with ASADA. The red flags however that were presented to Hamilton once brought to attention by Hird, Corcoran and Reid and the lack of courage to take action also just as frustrating. This is where I also see Reid, Bomber, Corcoran and Hirds main failing and have already verbally said this on occasions. They should of acted further once they brought issue correctly to Hamilton and he didn’t carry it through. They naturally assumed Hamilton would bring this up to Robson and eventually Evans but that didn’t’t seem to be the case. Hamilton believes he brought up issues with Robson but Ian says that didn’t happen…bit of a heresy moment. Dank was still however designated to be the gate keeper for products to be WADA approved and his sloppiness in this area is telling. I don’t believe we took illegal substances but it maybe due to luck rather than careful checking and processes. One interesting note was the one person who actually challenged Dank on use of Thymosin(Thymomodulin) was Jobe…he went to him and challenged on its status. Jobe comes out of this with almost the greatest credibility.

Hird: You only can shake your head at how tough this man is. Chip has a great line saying that some of the criticism on his stubbornness and toughness through this saga on him as coach is actually his likely strength as a future coach of Essendon. Hird was under-estimated by all parties on his convictions and strength. Was he naïve at times on trusting others…possibly and that’s expected as his first coaching gig. Hirds model is to trust others completely(very similar to his model at Gemba)…each person has a role and guidelines to adhere to and he expects people to carry them out and if any issues go to your direct reporting manager. He is there to coach the team to get better and do analysis on our performance and upcoming opposition teams during the week.
The anger by AFL on their favourite friend Evans being ignored by Hird was the catalyst of a campaign to punish Hird like no one ever has. It’s actually quite confronting the level of anger AFL displays and to this day it’s crazy that some AFL key staff are actually still employed with the evidence already put forth. Hird believes strongly no one set out to cheat(including Dank and Robinson) and no one actually did. it’s this conviction that lets no one make him think otherwise as he feels strongly he knows the truth. Evidence shows that Dank and Robinson likely never wanted to cheat but were more incompetent and lazy in how they went about their business. With no real records it’s then hard to know what players took even though the club knows the high probability considering their outlined program.

Reid: By the end you just want to hug the guy. Heart breaks for him and front and centre of this story is his love for the players and their health and well being. This is what still angers him today on what could of happened to his boys. Personally I have grown to like the guy even more and more than happy he is our club doctor. Some great moments in the book of him taking on the AFL:)

Corcoran: I have some sympathy for Corcoran as his wife through this was terminally ill and passed away during the ordeal. He acknowledges his mind was not focused due to wife and I think hearing his story you cant really blame him for that. He was the first to take the AFL punishment as he felt he deserved it which shows some real credibility to me even though I feel he is blaming himself a bit too much. What was interesting is that he recommended we don’t hire Dank as he met him a year earlier and was not impressed. He was overruled and Dank was hired by Hamilton and Robson with strong recommendation by Robinson.

Bomber: I got the feeling he was a bit all over the place through the ordeal. Ziggy report I thought was damning as it stated Hird as a first year coach had very little support or management to help him. Considering Bombers role as mentor I thought that spoke some volumes. Bomber though did try and stop Robinson and Dank a few times forcefully and you cant see how he could been charged by the AFL.

Evans: Feb 2013 - Two sides to choose and whatever he picks he loses one close relationship for good. He chose Demetriou…this was the catalyst to almost everything being a long drawn out mess.

It’s a hard book to read and there’s lots I am not putting in about investigation and ASADA. There’s so much in this book you could write for day. Definitely a good book to read and I wonder like me you come out think…what an amazing group of players we have at Essendon. Their unbelievable loyalty should not be played down after reading this…it is huge and it’s a big part on why our club is surviving. No one comes out a winner from this. It’s a sad tale that needs to end as there is only one result that can come from the WADA appeal…and it’s Not Guilty…strangely I think WADA know this but the anti-doping message is the last of what they want to convey through this appeal

That’s all good and well CJohns, but more importantly, what is your opinion of the cover of the book?

Think you may find the writer is not that thrilled with what his publishing company came up with either

Finished late last night Chip's book and it certainly gives you a roller coaster of emotions

Key observations

Much of Chip’s story at what happened at Essendon is through Doc Reid’s eyes which is often back up by Hird’s discussion with ASADA or interviews with Corcoran and Bomber. So if this story outlined by Chip is not believed you would have to have to pretty much agree that all these four are liars and covering themselves and putting it all on Dank, Robson and in some degree Evans - to a lesser extent also Hamilton and Robson. So I ask myself do I believe the character of Hird and Doc Reid who are the key story tellers. For me and what I know of them…absolutely!!! The passion Reid is telling the story is not a made up tale…it’s a man still frustrated and hurt at what happened in 2012 and 2013.

Dank and Robinson: Yesterday after just reading half the book by 4pm I was incredibly angry. The manner in which these clowns thought they were king of the world when it came to sports science/fitness and the contempt they saw Reid as an old guy who lacks boldness to openly view new techniques and science is incredible. Both pretty much have a view of constructing ways of getting around Reid to get the outcome they want. However not asking the doctor on how players should be treated was a critical error as you had examples of players being ill after injections due to ongoing health issues only Doc Reid new of…(Gumby back issues and another anonymous who got ill were some examples). To have a situation where players go to Reid sick and he has no idea why and they explain that Dank injected them and advised Reid was ok with it horrified the Doc…obviously he new nothing of the sort… As you read example after example of what they did without anyone in the club knowing it really is deplorable…no other way of looking at it…it’s backed up to by player accounts interviewed with ASADA. The red flags however that were presented to Hamilton once brought to attention by Hird, Corcoran and Reid and the lack of courage to take action also just as frustrating. This is where I also see Reid, Bomber, Corcoran and Hirds main failing and have already verbally said this on occasions. They should of acted further once they brought issue correctly to Hamilton and he didn’t carry it through. They naturally assumed Hamilton would bring this up to Robson and eventually Evans but that didn’t’t seem to be the case. Hamilton believes he brought up issues with Robson but Ian says that didn’t happen…bit of a heresy moment. Dank was still however designated to be the gate keeper for products to be WADA approved and his sloppiness in this area is telling. I don’t believe we took illegal substances but it maybe due to luck rather than careful checking and processes. One interesting note was the one person who actually challenged Dank on use of Thymosin(Thymomodulin) was Jobe…he went to him and challenged on its status. Jobe comes out of this with almost the greatest credibility.

Hird: You only can shake your head at how tough this man is. Chip has a great line saying that some of the criticism on his stubbornness and toughness through this saga on him as coach is actually his likely strength as a future coach of Essendon. Hird was under-estimated by all parties on his convictions and strength. Was he naïve at times on trusting others…possibly and that’s expected as his first coaching gig. Hirds model is to trust others completely(very similar to his model at Gemba)…each person has a role and guidelines to adhere to and he expects people to carry them out and if any issues go to your direct reporting manager. He is there to coach the team to get better and do analysis on our performance and upcoming opposition teams during the week.
The anger by AFL on their favourite friend Evans being ignored by Hird was the catalyst of a campaign to punish Hird like no one ever has. It’s actually quite confronting the level of anger AFL displays and to this day it’s crazy that some AFL key staff are actually still employed with the evidence already put forth. Hird believes strongly no one set out to cheat(including Dank and Robinson) and no one actually did. it’s this conviction that lets no one make him think otherwise as he feels strongly he knows the truth. Evidence shows that Dank and Robinson likely never wanted to cheat but were more incompetent and lazy in how they went about their business. With no real records it’s then hard to know what players took even though the club knows the high probability considering their outlined program.

Reid: By the end you just want to hug the guy. Heart breaks for him and front and centre of this story is his love for the players and their health and well being. This is what still angers him today on what could of happened to his boys. Personally I have grown to like the guy even more and more than happy he is our club doctor. Some great moments in the book of him taking on the AFL:)

Corcoran: I have some sympathy for Corcoran as his wife through this was terminally ill and passed away during the ordeal. He acknowledges his mind was not focused due to wife and I think hearing his story you cant really blame him for that. He was the first to take the AFL punishment as he felt he deserved it which shows some real credibility to me even though I feel he is blaming himself a bit too much. What was interesting is that he recommended we don’t hire Dank as he met him a year earlier and was not impressed. He was overruled and Dank was hired by Hamilton and Robson with strong recommendation by Robinson.

Bomber: I got the feeling he was a bit all over the place through the ordeal. Ziggy report I thought was damning as it stated Hird as a first year coach had very little support or management to help him. Considering Bombers role as mentor I thought that spoke some volumes. Bomber though did try and stop Robinson and Dank a few times forcefully and you cant see how he could been charged by the AFL.

Evans: Feb 2013 - Two sides to choose and whatever he picks he loses one close relationship for good. He chose Demetriou…this was the catalyst to almost everything being a long drawn out mess.

It’s a hard book to read and there’s lots I am not putting in about investigation and ASADA. There’s so much in this book you could write for day. Definitely a good book to read and I wonder like me you come out think…what an amazing group of players we have at Essendon. Their unbelievable loyalty should not be played down after reading this…it is huge and it’s a big part on why our club is surviving. No one comes out a winner from this. It’s a sad tale that needs to end as there is only one result that can come from the WADA appeal…and it’s Not Guilty…strangely I think WADA know this but the anti-doping message is the last of what they want to convey through this appeal

That’s all good and well CJohns, but more importantly, what is your opinion of the cover of the book?

Finished late last night Chip's book and it certainly gives you a roller coaster of emotions

Key observations

Much of Chip’s story at what happened at Essendon is through Doc Reid’s eyes which is often back up by Hird’s discussion with ASADA or interviews with Corcoran and Bomber. So if this story outlined by Chip is not believed you would have to have to pretty much agree that all these four are liars and covering themselves and putting it all on Dank, Robson and in some degree Evans - to a lesser extent also Hamilton and Robson. So I ask myself do I believe the character of Hird and Doc Reid who are the key story tellers. For me and what I know of them…absolutely!!! The passion Reid is telling the story is not a made up tale…it’s a man still frustrated and hurt at what happened in 2012 and 2013.

Dank and Robinson: Yesterday after just reading half the book by 4pm I was incredibly angry. The manner in which these clowns thought they were king of the world when it came to sports science/fitness and the contempt they saw Reid as an old guy who lacks boldness to openly view new techniques and science is incredible. Both pretty much have a view of constructing ways of getting around Reid to get the outcome they want. However not asking the doctor on how players should be treated was a critical error as you had examples of players being ill after injections due to ongoing health issues only Doc Reid new of…(Gumby back issues and another anonymous who got ill were some examples). To have a situation where players go to Reid sick and he has no idea why and they explain that Dank injected them and advised Reid was ok with it horrified the Doc…obviously he new nothing of the sort… As you read example after example of what they did without anyone in the club knowing it really is deplorable…no other way of looking at it…it’s backed up to by player accounts interviewed with ASADA. The red flags however that were presented to Hamilton once brought to attention by Hird, Corcoran and Reid and the lack of courage to take action also just as frustrating. This is where I also see Reid, Bomber, Corcoran and Hirds main failing and have already verbally said this on occasions. They should of acted further once they brought issue correctly to Hamilton and he didn’t carry it through. They naturally assumed Hamilton would bring this up to Robson and eventually Evans but that didn’t’t seem to be the case. Hamilton believes he brought up issues with Robson but Ian says that didn’t happen…bit of a heresy moment. Dank was still however designated to be the gate keeper for products to be WADA approved and his sloppiness in this area is telling. I don’t believe we took illegal substances but it maybe due to luck rather than careful checking and processes. One interesting note was the one person who actually challenged Dank on use of Thymosin(Thymomodulin) was Jobe…he went to him and challenged on its status. Jobe comes out of this with almost the greatest credibility.

Hird: You only can shake your head at how tough this man is. Chip has a great line saying that some of the criticism on his stubbornness and toughness through this saga on him as coach is actually his likely strength as a future coach of Essendon. Hird was under-estimated by all parties on his convictions and strength. Was he naïve at times on trusting others…possibly and that’s expected as his first coaching gig. Hirds model is to trust others completely(very similar to his model at Gemba)…each person has a role and guidelines to adhere to and he expects people to carry them out and if any issues go to your direct reporting manager. He is there to coach the team to get better and do analysis on our performance and upcoming opposition teams during the week.
The anger by AFL on their favourite friend Evans being ignored by Hird was the catalyst of a campaign to punish Hird like no one ever has. It’s actually quite confronting the level of anger AFL displays and to this day it’s crazy that some AFL key staff are actually still employed with the evidence already put forth. Hird believes strongly no one set out to cheat(including Dank and Robinson) and no one actually did. it’s this conviction that lets no one make him think otherwise as he feels strongly he knows the truth. Evidence shows that Dank and Robinson likely never wanted to cheat but were more incompetent and lazy in how they went about their business. With no real records it’s then hard to know what players took even though the club knows the high probability considering their outlined program.

Reid: By the end you just want to hug the guy. Heart breaks for him and front and centre of this story is his love for the players and their health and well being. This is what still angers him today on what could of happened to his boys. Personally I have grown to like the guy even more and more than happy he is our club doctor. Some great moments in the book of him taking on the AFL:)

Corcoran: I have some sympathy for Corcoran as his wife through this was terminally ill and passed away during the ordeal. He acknowledges his mind was not focused due to wife and I think hearing his story you cant really blame him for that. He was the first to take the AFL punishment as he felt he deserved it which shows some real credibility to me even though I feel he is blaming himself a bit too much. What was interesting is that he recommended we don’t hire Dank as he met him a year earlier and was not impressed. He was overruled and Dank was hired by Hamilton and Robson with strong recommendation by Robinson.

Bomber: I got the feeling he was a bit all over the place through the ordeal. Ziggy report I thought was damning as it stated Hird as a first year coach had very little support or management to help him. Considering Bombers role as mentor I thought that spoke some volumes. Bomber though did try and stop Robinson and Dank a few times forcefully and you cant see how he could been charged by the AFL.

Evans: Feb 2013 - Two sides to choose and whatever he picks he loses one close relationship for good. He chose Demetriou…this was the catalyst to almost everything being a long drawn out mess.

It’s a hard book to read and there’s lots I am not putting in about investigation and ASADA. There’s so much in this book you could write for day. Definitely a good book to read and I wonder like me you come out think…what an amazing group of players we have at Essendon. Their unbelievable loyalty should not be played down after reading this…it is huge and it’s a big part on why our club is surviving. No one comes out a winner from this. It’s a sad tale that needs to end as there is only one result that can come from the WADA appeal…and it’s Not Guilty…strangely I think WADA know this but the anti-doping message is the last of what they want to convey through this appeal

I found the CHIP extracts fascinating.

In particular, I found these paragraphs interesting:

Evans hears the drums as well. Three days before the meeting at Evans’ house, the club chairman arrives unannounced on the doorstep of Dr Bruce Reid. Evans asks ­outright, “Do you reckon we have taken prohibited substances?” Reid is taken aback. He doesn’t know where this has come from. “No, I don’t,” he says. Evans presses ­further. “Can you guarantee it?” The doctor pauses to think, too long for Evans’ comfort. “No, I can’t guarantee it.” Evans’ face falls. It is not the answer he wants.

Two things trouble him about what Reid tells him next. The first is Reid’s discomfort with what went on at Windy Hill the previous season. Reid is the club’s senior medical officer. The treatment of players is his responsibility. Yet he is telling Evans about practices he didn’t condone, injections he didn’t authorise. It is the first time Evans is hearing any of this. The ­second is Reid’s description of a letter he wrote the previous summer, setting out his concerns about substances that Stephen Dank was giving players – a letter Evans has neither seen nor previously been told about. While the friends talk, Reid searches for the letter but cannot find it.

As Evans is driving back home, Reid calls. He has found the letter and reads it over the phone: “I have some fundamental problems being club doctor at present. This particularly applies to our administration of supplements.” As Reid continues reading Evans does well to keep his car on the road. “It is my belief in the AFL that we should be winning flags by keeping a drug-free culture … I think we are playing at the edge.” Reid is pleased to have found the letter. Once it is read to him, Evans knows it is far from good news. Whatever Essendon is caught up in, it is too big for the football club to deal with alone. Over coming days he makes a decision. He will go to the AFL.

For quite a while I have had a problem with the groupthink on here that Evans betrayed the Club, particularly in respect of the decision to “self-report”. That he should have backed his staff who were saying that we didn’t have a problem.

I’ve never been of that view and think that under the circumstances, he made the decision that the vast majority of senior administrators would have made.

The quotes above support the following:

  • Evans is told by Vlad that we took prohibited substances (PES);
  • When Evans asks Reid if we have taken PES, he states that he can’t guarantee that we haven’t (the lack of guarantee is particularly significant given that Reid had overall oversight of the program; and
  • Reid shows Evans the letter he wrote 12 months earlier raising concerns about the program, including the statement that we were ‘playing at the edge’.

Now - I agree that in hindsight self reporting wasn’t the right call, but as an administrator, if you were confronted with the scenario that Evans was confronted with, you would pretty safely assume that there was a pretty good chance we had a problem. Yes, its true that Hird said we were fine, but, as we’ve argued here countless times, he wasn’t responsible for the program in its totality so from Evans’ perspective, Hird’s view on the matter would have been worth a lot less than Reid’s.

The bashing of Evans on here needs to stop. He made the only decision he could have at the start - its unfortunate and proved to be fatal in the end but thats what the circumstances demanded at the time.

i agree

Evans didn’t have bad intentions when he was in change he just did the best he could under the circumstances

Evans may have made the wrong decisions but that doesn’t mean he didn’t care

It is interesting that when Reid was initially asked by Evans if we took prohibited substances he says NO. When pressured to guarantee it he backs off.

Now, in any business there are many activities going on at the same time. For a person to give a 100% guarantee that a process being performed by others out of their sight and direct responsibility did or didn’t happen is asking for trouble. The last time I looked the only things certain in life were death and taxes. As a doctor, and scientist, Reid’s discipline kicked in (as it should).

We may never know Evan’s frame of mind or motivation was for what he did. To say he didn’t have bad intentions is an opinion. Can you give me a guarantee that his intentions were not bad. For some reason Evans and Vlad don’t seem to want to talk about it. I wonder why??

So, you agree he made bad decisions! “but that doesn’t mean he didn’t care”. If he cared about his club, employees, supporters, and his friend Hirdy he should never have trusted Vlad and the AFL. When he listened to Vlad he lost control of the situation. He should have bunkered down until he had the facts from people within the club.

His silence in all this says something about his character. If he was half the man our coach is he would have cleared the air by now. But he sold us out in favour of the “Boys Club”.