Street Harrassment - is it clear cut?

General Gibberish Forums The Dog's Breakfast
1

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/28/living/hollaback-10-hours-walking-in-nyc/index.html

 

If someone knows how to embed this that would be appreciated, thanks.

 

Basically the video is a summary of the kind of harrassment women have to put up with in NYC just walking along the street. She's not wearing provocative clothing, she's not a stunner, she's not interacting at all with those that she passes.

 

It was filmed so people who don't experience it might appreciate what women go through and donate to the cause to try and help end it.

 

Now, I think it's a bit of a beat up. Kind of. SOME of the things said are over the top, calling her sexy, commenting on her butt, especially the guys that follow her and walk intimidatingly beside her... apparently there's some gestures we can't see too that are obviously unnecessary.

 

Some other things are pretty mild, like "hey baby", "How you doin?", guys winking etc. Some of it seems to me like it's just being polite

 

So apparently there were 100 instances of harrassment that happened in 10 hours of walking, so on average every 6 minutes, which in a major city doesn't seem that bad, at least to me, considering the number of people you walk past.

 

I'm really interested though. What's ok and what is not? Some of these guys are deadset sleazebags but I'm sure some just see the street as a social environment whereas other people just want to move through the urban environment as a ghost without being acknowledged. Also if it's their 'turf' or 'hood' then they feel like they can chat to anyone who walks through it - they might not feel so confident if they are out of their comfort zone.

 

I know when I'm a tourist it seems that I seem to get harrassed more often on the street, at LEAST every 6 minutes, but mainly by people selling me stuff, I don't get propositioned for sex or asked out (unfortunately lol), or just generally commented on, so I guess this was an eyeopener.

 

Not only are the few serious bits of harrassment enough to make me want to help stop it, but I can see that it would really wear you down after a while, to the point where you'd want to always get a cab or never walk alone.

 

Personally, if I see a woman walking towards me in a quiet/dark street I'm likely to cross the road just to make her more comfortable. Since I grew up in a country town, if its in the main street then Im more likely to make eye contact and nod politely, but in a busy city I pretty much remain 'ghost-like" as that seems the convention.

 

Thoughts?

2

Harassing streets is wrong.

3

Harassing streets is wrong.

Streets are putting themselves out there, just asking to be walked over. They bring it on themselves

4

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ■■■■■■■ scary.

5

Just another person looking for their fifteen minutes. Meh.

6

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ******* scary.

 

Agree 100%. When I'm in a carpark at night and there is a woman on her own heading to the car, I can only think of how scary it must be having a >6 foot guy walking in the same direction as her.

 

I don't think any of the behaviour listed by wannabe is acceptable. Unless you've gotten some sort of signal it's OK to do so, how can anyone think it's OK to wink or say "hey baby"??

7

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ******* scary.

 

Agree 100%. When I'm in a carpark at night and there is a woman on her own heading to the car, I can only think of how scary it must be having a >6 foot guy walking in the same direction as her.

 

I don't think any of the behaviour listed by wannabe is acceptable. Unless you've gotten some sort of signal it's OK to do so, how can anyone think it's OK to wink or say "hey baby"??

 

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of cultures where it's completely acceptable to do those things. Movies and magazines portray it that way too. It doesn't make it right but these might not be bad people just a product of what they see around them and think is normal.

 

Even in Australia you'll have older men who just call every woman darling. Some women think it's cringeworthy, some women take it as a standard greeting and couldn't care less.

 

But, if we can get past the "I was only being innocent/polite" argument, I think at the heart of the issue is "when is it ok for a man to approach a woman"?

 

What about at work? That's ok right? No, no, she's just there trying to do her job.

 

What about in the lunch break? No, this is her own personal time, leave her alone.

 

What about on the way to her car...lol.

 

What about on the internet? Freak!!

 

What about on the street? Can't she just mind her own business?

 

What about at a bus stop, she's not doing anything...? You've ambushed her1 If she leaves to get away she might miss her bus!

 

What about at a bar? Oh, she can't go out for a drink without you just assuming she wants sex?

 

The problem with all of these scenarios/locations is that they are all actually perfectly fine as long as the advances aren't unwanted, which is hard to know until you try. And if you come up with a single scenario where it's ok to hit on a girl? How dare you judge her!

 

The fact is, most blokes have way to high of an opinion of themselves and their chances with a girl, or they are just desperate, and their advances just come across as harrassment, when they don't deliberately set out to harrass the woman in question and give her a hard time.

 

And Zebba, you say it's okay if she gives you the signal to do so? What if you're not interested, then isn't she harrassing you?

 

So sure, Im probably overcomplicating it, I just find it really interesting how people interact.

8

Good video. Gives a (limited) insight into what women experience.

 

Gotta remember that this happens to most women just about every day of their lives after they turn 15. It'd drive you fkn nuts.

9

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ******* scary.

 

Agree 100%. When I'm in a carpark at night and there is a woman on her own heading to the car, I can only think of how scary it must be having a >6 foot guy walking in the same direction as her.

 

I don't think any of the behaviour listed by wannabe is acceptable. Unless you've gotten some sort of signal it's OK to do so, how can anyone think it's OK to wink or say "hey baby"??

 

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of cultures where it's completely acceptable to do those things. Movies and magazines portray it that way too. It doesn't make it right but these might not be bad people just a product of what they see around them and think is normal.

 

Even in Australia you'll have older men who just call every woman darling. Some women think it's cringeworthy, some women take it as a standard greeting and couldn't care less.

 

But, if we can get past the "I was only being innocent/polite" argument, I think at the heart of the issue is "when is it ok for a man to approach a woman"?

 

What about at work? That's ok right? No, no, she's just there trying to do her job.

 

What about in the lunch break? No, this is her own personal time, leave her alone.

 

What about on the way to her car...lol.

 

What about on the internet? Freak!!

 

What about on the street? Can't she just mind her own business?

 

What about at a bus stop, she's not doing anything...? You've ambushed her1 If she leaves to get away she might miss her bus!

 

What about at a bar? Oh, she can't go out for a drink without you just assuming she wants sex?

 

The problem with all of these scenarios/locations is that they are all actually perfectly fine as long as the advances aren't unwanted, which is hard to know until you try. And if you come up with a single scenario where it's ok to hit on a girl? How dare you judge her!

 

The fact is, most blokes have way to high of an opinion of themselves and their chances with a girl, or they are just desperate, and their advances just come across as harrassment, when they don't deliberately set out to harrass the woman in question and give her a hard time.

 

And Zebba, you say it's okay if she gives you the signal to do so? What if you're not interested, then isn't she harrassing you?

 

So sure, Im probably overcomplicating it, I just find it really interesting how people interact.

 

Try telling your HR manager that it's OK to chat up workmates at work, after work, or in the work carpark. Let us know how you go.

10

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ******* scary.

 

Agree 100%. When I'm in a carpark at night and there is a woman on her own heading to the car, I can only think of how scary it must be having a >6 foot guy walking in the same direction as her.

 

I don't think any of the behaviour listed by wannabe is acceptable. Unless you've gotten some sort of signal it's OK to do so, how can anyone think it's OK to wink or say "hey baby"??

 

Clearly protocol is to scream from the car window "show us where ya ■■■■ from".

One has to follow correct etiquette.

11

 

Try telling your HR manager that it's OK to chat up workmates at work, after work, or in the work carpark. Let us know how you go.

 

 

It's actually perfectly okay to hit on a work colleague. It's also perfectly okay for them to reject, and provided you stop making advances it's game over, no harm no foul.

 

It's repeated, unwanted, advances that constitute harrassment.

 

HR depts usually have a policy that you are required to disclose relationships, do you really think people get fired for hooking up at work?

12

If she's walking down the street minding her own business, closed shop. If you get a look and a smile, then go for it. In the same way, you can look and smile. 

13

sexual harassment pan-da

14

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are what you or I think is hardly relevant, compared to the women walking on a street outside at night, with some random dude following her and saying or shouting sexual things at her.

I daresay it's ******* scary.

 

Agree 100%. When I'm in a carpark at night and there is a woman on her own heading to the car, I can only think of how scary it must be having a >6 foot guy walking in the same direction as her.

 

I don't think any of the behaviour listed by wannabe is acceptable. Unless you've gotten some sort of signal it's OK to do so, how can anyone think it's OK to wink or say "hey baby"??

 

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of cultures where it's completely acceptable to do those things. Movies and magazines portray it that way too. It doesn't make it right but these might not be bad people just a product of what they see around them and think is normal.

 

Even in Australia you'll have older men who just call every woman darling. Some women think it's cringeworthy, some women take it as a standard greeting and couldn't care less.

 

But, if we can get past the "I was only being innocent/polite" argument, I think at the heart of the issue is "when is it ok for a man to approach a woman"?

 

What about at work? That's ok right? No, no, she's just there trying to do her job.

 

What about in the lunch break? No, this is her own personal time, leave her alone.

 

What about on the way to her car...lol.

 

What about on the internet? Freak!!

 

What about on the street? Can't she just mind her own business?

 

What about at a bus stop, she's not doing anything...? You've ambushed her1 If she leaves to get away she might miss her bus!

 

What about at a bar? Oh, she can't go out for a drink without you just assuming she wants sex?

 

The problem with all of these scenarios/locations is that they are all actually perfectly fine as long as the advances aren't unwanted, which is hard to know until you try. And if you come up with a single scenario where it's ok to hit on a girl? How dare you judge her!

 

The fact is, most blokes have way to high of an opinion of themselves and their chances with a girl, or they are just desperate, and their advances just come across as harrassment, when they don't deliberately set out to harrass the woman in question and give her a hard time.

 

And Zebba, you say it's okay if she gives you the signal to do so? What if you're not interested, then isn't she harrassing you?

 

So sure, Im probably overcomplicating it, I just find it really interesting how people interact.

 

 

Actually I don't think it's a you don't know unless you try thing, its a "how you try" thing. Most people are OK with casual banter, but a lot of the time it isn't casual banter, it's stuff that if you are on the receiving end of, or watching, would be strange.

Winking is weird, like think about how it looks, there is no way that doesn't come across as weird to a stranger.

 

All the situations you named are not inappropriate for talking to a woman, or anyone (well maybe when she's walking to her car, that could come across as threatening), but it's how you do it that matters. If you give a nod when eye contact is made, or If you approach someone with a "Hey, I just noticed 'x,y,z' and wanted to ask you 'x,y,z'" then it just comes across as making conversation, and there is nothing wrong with making conversation. If the woman isn't interested she will try and squeeze out of the situation, it's when the other person keeps pushing that it becomes inappropriate.

 

When you get wolf whistled, yelled at, winked at and get called "baby" by a stranger, the person doing it just seems a bit wankerish.

15

Watched the video at work and genuinely LOL'd at the guy that just yelled out "DAYUMMM!". Some people have no shame.

16

What about on the internet? Freak!!

 

 

99.9% of 'women' on the internet are actually men like AN#10.

17

I l9ve reading men discuss this subject. You have and cannot ever have an idea. You may think yellong out or complimenting a woman is fine, but seriously you think your the first? It gets old very fast.

18

I’ve been told I look very standoffish so I don’t get hassled much when I’m out.

They’re all wrong though, I’m a very nice person.

19

I l9ve reading men discuss this subject. You have and cannot ever have an idea. You may think yellong out or complimenting a woman is fine, but seriously you think your the first? It gets old very fast.

 

What about throwing coats over puddles for them?

20

Watched the video at work and genuinely LOL'd at the guy that just yelled out "DAYUMMM!". Some people have no shame.

Yep. Like the bloke who tried to pick me up on the phone at work, ringing again last week. He used the exact same line of questioning, but this time I knew what was going on and brushed him off. Farking moron.
Anyway much of this stuff is a time and place thing. I would not like if someone just yelled stuff out or winked at me if I was just walking down the street. Even if I were in a night club, you'd prefer someone would at least have some diplomacy, which obviously considering the environment doesn't always happen :p. I suppose it just makes you feel less like an object...