Tesla just changed everything

Green Cronyism Gone Wild: It Looks Like The State Of California Is Bailing Out Tesla
charles the moderator / 14 hours ago July 19, 2017
Date: 18/07/17 | Wolf Richter, Business Insider

The California state Assembly passed a $3-billion subsidy program for electric vehicles, dwarfing the existing program. The bill is now in the state Senate. If passed, it will head to Governor Jerry Brown, who has not yet indicated if he’d sign what is ostensibly an effort to put EV sales into high gear, but below the surface appears to be a Tesla bailout.

Tesla will soon hit the limit of the federal tax rebates, which are good for the first 200,000 EVs sold in the US per manufacturer beginning in December 2009 (IRS explanation). In the second quarter after the manufacturer hits the limit, the subsidy gets cut in half, from $7,500 to $3,750; two quarters later, it gets cut to $1,875. Two quarters later, it goes to zero.

Given Tesla’s ambitious US sales forecast for its Model 3, it will hit the 200,000 vehicle limit in 2018, after which the phase-out begins. A year later, the subsidies are gone. Losing a $7,500 subsidy on a $35,000 car is a huge deal. No other EV manufacturer is anywhere near their 200,000 limit. Their customers are going to benefit from the subsidy; Tesla buyers won’t.

This could crush Tesla sales. Many car buyers are sensitive to these subsidies. For example, after Hong Kong rescinded a tax break for EVs effective in April, Tesla sales in April dropped to zero. The good people of Hong Kong will likely start buying Teslas again, but it shows that subsidies have a devastating impact when they’re pulled.

That’s what Tesla is facing next year in the US.

In California, the largest EV market in the US, 2.7% of new vehicles sold in the first quarter were EVs, up from 0.4% in 2012, according to the California New Dealers Association. California is Tesla’s largest market. Something big needs to be done to help the Bay Area company, which has lost money every single year of its ten years of existence. And taxpayers are going to be shanghaied into doing it.

To make this more palatable, you have to dress this up as something where others benefit too, though the biggest beneficiary would be Tesla because these California subsidies would replace the federal subsidies when they’re phased out.

It would be a rebate handled at the dealer, not a tax credit on the tax return. And it could reach “up to $30,000 to $40,000” per EV, state Senator Andy Vidak, a Republican from Hanford, explained in an emailed statement.

This is how the taxpayer-funded rebates in the “California Electric Vehicle Initiative” (AB1184) would work, according to the Mercury News:

The [California Air Resources Board] would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car. For example, a new, $40,000 electric vehicle might have the same features as a $25,000 gas-powered car. The EV buyer would receive a $7,500 federal rebate, and the state would kick in an additional $7,500 to even out the bottom line.

And for instance, a $100,000 Tesla might be deemed to have the same features as a $65,000 gas-powered car. The rebate would cover the difference, minus the federal rebate (so $27,500). Because rebates for Teslas will soon be gone, the program would cover the entire difference – $35,000. This is where Senator Vidak got his “$30,000 to $40,000.”

The Tesla Model 3 would be tough to sell without the federal $7,500. But this new bill would push Californian taxpayers into filling the void. It would be a godsend for Tesla.

There have been conmen and there have been conmen but Elon Musk is an absolute ■■■■■■■ genius.

Caesellius Bassus eat your heart out.

The Musk empire and China shall achieve its new world order by using our hard earned tax money and creating economic chaos. Meanwhile, former mining magnates and barons will shake their heads at us in sadness saying “we tried to warn you”.

Also, something about single world government ID cards.

I wonder why they agreed to such big subisidies.

Again though there is nothing stopping Ford, GM, etc… to getting these for their own cars.

Again, America loves helping the little guys.

They don’t call Governor Brown “Moonbeam” for nothing.

Elon’s a bit of a twat.

Seen what he did when he divorced his wife?

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Elon seems better than Zuckerberg though. He’s fully unhinged that bloke.

Better than Zuckerberg is far from good.

Also Tesla fan boys are worse than Apple fan boys

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Wasn’t saying either was good, but for the sake of comparing billionaires…

Anyone here had a Powerwall installed at their place? I’m considering it during our extensions at home. We have no gas so everything runs on power. I’ve had few quotes around the 20-23k mark for 7.6kw up to 10kw systems. At the moment our electricity bill is around $650 a quarter, so figure in 10 year the system will have paid for itself ( probably going to be our forever home). Is basic solar still a better option because the start up cost is a lot smaller? Maybe I should get solar for now and add the powerwall in a few years when the pricing gets a bit more competitive but I’m not sure this is possible.

That question can only be answered with more info really.

For example, … when do you use the most power?? If it is during daylight hours, then you’ll get the most benefit from panels alone, as you will use more of what you produce.

Can you become part of a power sharing group, where you onsell excess production to someone else like a neighbour at a higher rate than the current joke of a feed in tarriff?

Will you use reverse cycle heating, and in particular, Air conditioning during Summer days?

I personally think the price of batteries will plummet over the next 2 years, so depending on those answers, and others, like, do you have a concrete floor? Or other thermal mass inside?? Northerly aspect? Double glazing?? It could be very worthwhile to do the solar panels, but wait on the battery.

You could engage an assessor, or you might get a few assessments for free from just inviting several solar companies to come & quote,(and I mean several, … there is a high probability of salesman bullshitting in this industry)

Or, . I think there are some self assessments you can do on a few independent websites, as well as Solar company ones.

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Less likely on already built house but the tesla roof may be worth waiting for in some circumstances too. Absolutely agree on the batteries. Let the gigafactories influence the tech and the markets a bit first.

Batteries as they cost right now do not pay for themselves. Only the panels do. If you are looking at $ value a bigger solar investment is better than solar + battery.

What I found with regards to costs, the cheaper the product the more the cost seemed to fluctuate. As you gravitated towards the top (string inverters, top quality panels) the costs were quite the same across the board.

Read that after I posted it. Prime ■■■■■■■■.

Thanks for the info.

It’s only my wife and I at the moment. We probably have an even split between day and night use for power.

We have some items that do draw a lot of power, eg. Induction cooktop, Refrigerated ducted heating and cooling and in future and spa and small pool that will need electric heating. Heating is mainly just on after dark cause we both work. Cooling will be the same for now. Plan is to run the heating for the spa/pool during the day cause keep the temp up whilst we aren’t using much other power.

Our house is on stumps. No double glazing and most bedrooms are north facing whilst living rooms are south facing.

I’m leaning more towards just doing the panels for now whilst we grow our family as we won’t need the batteries for a few years.

Thanks for the help.

Cheers

Also look at variable speed pump for your pool as pool pumps can account for nearly 20% of a homes energy use. I assume you have covers installed already?

Don’t even have the pool! Lol

It’s not going to be a big pool, more a plunge type. We’ll use the spa more often.

Worth considering.

He’s scum

Had a mate work at Tesla. Briefly.

They treat their OS staff like absolute ■■■■ because their visas are linked to their jobs. One bloke I heard of had done double shifts for 3 months straight. Unpaid.

And I know for a fact they have had to shut down car production at times because the seconds yard (where they park the lemons) has gotten too full. Without getting too technical they’re trying to make 2017’s cars using 1985’s techniques. Labour intensive, inaccurate and inconsistent.

Plus the suspension has a nasty habit of cracking in half…

It wouldn’t be too bad if they were using 1985 Mazda production techniques, at that stage they were on less than 1.9 faults per million and every other manufacturer was starting to copy them.

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