Thread for Realists - the 2014/2015 “Lid On” thread

Football Discussion Dustin Fletcher Hangar
41


So, assuming the worst happens, and we lose.
Where do we go from 2 and 4 ?
Might even be a challenge to muster the 13 wins required to make Finals from there ?
Sure, the draw opens up for us, but if you can't beat St.Kilda, then we simply can't pencil in games like WB or Rich or even GCS as wins.
 

 

 

This is how I'm seeing it at the minute. Preseason I was confident of finals and gave an outside chance for top 4, if we get to 2-4 I'd still be backing us to make the 8 but would find top 4 (and therefore a genuine flag chance) pretty unlikely. The manner of this week's loss was disappointing to say the least, it'll be galling if it ends up being the difference between 8th and 10th or 5th and 4th.

42

perception is not always reality. Just cos you see what someone says as pessimistic doesn't actually make it so.


No, you are pessimistic.
Almost all of the time.
Every single Blitzer will agree with this point.
Remember 2 years ago this time, when you said we were being unimaginative c*nts for not resting several players in a game we had virtually no chance of winning (Carlton), with a short lead in to ANZAC Day.
3 qtrs later we are leading the Blues by 50.
You don't have a lot of faith in the side, but that does not mean that you are always wrong.
FWIW, I'm having grave doubts right now about our aspirations to achieve anything meaningful this year.
I hope all the pieces come together in 2015, because the time is now for this list.
43

I am concerned that we are playing a style of footy that doesn't suit our list as it stands at the moment.

 

Slow, precise footy out of the backline suits a team that has elite kicks in their backline and gun forwards.  Last I checked we don't have those.

 

When I try and look at teams I try to work out what they have that everyone else doesn't.

 

Hawthorn for instance has eight guys who can play through the backline and deliver the ball exceptionally well.  They've also got a shitload of left footers and they have three or four guys who can kick over the zone.

 

Port has eight or nine blokes who can run through the middle with a great mix of pace and power - Boak, Hartlett, Gray, Wingard, Wines, Polec, Cornes, etc - and two key forwards that are deceptively good in Westhoff and Shulz.

 

Geelong has an unbelievable backline with eight blokes who never get beaten one on one who can also deliver the ball, a grunty midfield and some outside pace.

 

What do we have?

 

1.  We normally have two ruckmen who are good enough to play forward as well.

2.  We have Jobe Watson and a really solid group of strong bodied midfielders who aren't necessarily the most talented in the game but certainly hit hard.

3.  We have an abundance of good, key backmen, two of whom can play forward.

 

Things that we're middle of the road or worse in:

 

1.  Kicking skills

2.  Pace

3.  Marking forwards

4.  Crumbing forwards

 

For mine, our list as it stands at the moment is far more suited to a Sydney 2005 style than it is to a Hawks 2013 style but we seem to want to play a Hawks style.

44

i'm sure this thread is of the vegetarian variety. 

45

Yes, I admit it, for me the glass is usually half empty rather than half full.  

 

Surprisingly, though, I can see an upside at the moment.  I have faith in Thompson as a coach.  He built the Geelong team that has been at the very top for about eight years and won three premierships in that time, and that doesn't happen under a dud coach.  At the moment he's got a fixation on Hurley back and Carlisle forward, but I can't believe that he'll allow that to cloud his judgment for too long.  

 

The loss on Saturday was miserable.  But I think we'll be up for the game on Friday.  If we want the ball more than they do, then we'll win.  Simple as that.

46

Top 4?

 

How did anyone think we'd make top 4 this year without at least 1 established, if not proven tall forward?

 

Name a top 4 side  that hasn't had at least one tall forward of some repute.

 

Carslisle/J.D combo........

 

Neither are proven, consistent or even guaranteed to be  permanent tall forwards  in the years to come.

 

I still believe both will be absolute stars and integral to our chance at a flag over the next number of years, but I personally blieve Carslisle IS better back, and Joe will inevitably ruck/rest forward.

 

So in this 'window' we're entereing, who will be a permanent KPF????

 

Sort of weird to not know...........

47

 

perception is not always reality. Just cos you see what someone says as pessimistic doesn't actually make it so.


No, you are pessimistic.
Almost all of the time.
Every single Blitzer will agree with this point.
Remember 2 years ago this time, when you said we were being unimaginative c*nts for not resting several players in a game we had virtually no chance of winning (Carlton), with a short lead in to ANZAC Day.
3 qtrs later we are leading the Blues by 50.
You don't have a lot of faith in the side, but that does not mean that you are always wrong.
FWIW, I'm having grave doubts right now about our aspirations to achieve anything meaningful this year.
I hope all the pieces come together in 2015, because the time is now for this list.

 

Again your perception of what I and others do or don't say is pessimistic more than anything.

 

Case in point if I was to say Melbourne are shit for reasons x y and z I bet you wouldn't argue with me.

If I Essendon will struggle to with reasons x y and z I'm all of a sudden a "pessimist".

 

I actually try to be honest and objective as much as I can. I know that's hard for you and certain others to see cos you don't like me or what I say, meh.

 

I also don't think I said we had no chance of winning against Carlton, I did however say personally I would have rathered a win on anzac day than not, and if it required resting players and a loss against carlton so be it. Funny though,

 

I'm very critical of the club, coaches and players when I don't think they are doing the right thing, by what I think. Again if your perception of that is being pessimistic, that says more about you, than anything I or others say.

 

Funny though you admit to having grave doubts about us this year, yet i've admitted if we play to our potential we can be top 4, and still stand by that. However if we don't we will struggle to continue to be middle of the road, funny that hey I believe we should be better than we have been, and we could be anything, but am continually critical when we aren't, yet that makes me pessimistic in your eyes.

 

the main thing that shits me though is the over exaggeration of our awesomeness mostly from supporters. Shit like oh we will belt Freo and the Saints the last 2 weeks, how's that gone ?

Pointing out the fact that we've lost games to shitty opponents in recent history, and we shouldn't even as supporters go in arrogantly thinking we will win, is not pessimistic.

 

So i stand by your perception of what is and isn't pessimistic is again not actual reality except to you and others like you who are so narrowmindedly obtuse in their thinking.

 

Thankfully most who think like that I have blocked so I won't have to read their response, despite some still continually replying to me thinking I care or can even read their dribble :)

48

The difference in teams winning or losing these days is marginal, outside of the usual top 4 reliable teams like geelong and hawthorn. Those teams play brilliantly skilled football.

The problem with Essendon is mainly the very poor performing forward line that lacks consistency and forward entries are abysmal.

Smart football wins games and whilst you can blame coaches etc. its up to the players to perform with confidence and passion.

I personally don’t expect Essendon to do that well this year. We just don’t have the consistency or confidence from enough players, but we will win some games well.

Geelong are the masters at the game and continue to be.

At least Essendon have these great new facilities to help moving forwards. But what you really need is a truly great list that doesn’t get injured every week.

49

I thought the wheels where going fall off around June as usual but apparently not this year.

50

Top 4?
 
How did anyone think we'd make top 4 this year without at least 1 established, if not proven tall forward?
 
Name a top 4 side  that hasn't had at least one tall forward of some repute.
 
Carslisle/J.D combo........
 
Neither are proven, consistent or even guaranteed to be  permanent tall forwards  in the years to come.
 
I still believe both will be absolute stars and integral to our chance at a flag over the next number of years, but I personally blieve Carslisle IS better back, and Joe will inevitably ruck/rest forward.
 
So in this 'window' we're entereing, who will be a permanent KPF????
 
Sort of weird to not know...........


Yep, very good points.
Carlisle and Daniher hardly hit the scoreboard in our First 3 Rds, yet we still managed 15, 12 in a close loss, and 21.
Clearly, Jake and JD are learning on the job.
Carlisle with playing as a KP forward, and JD with his inexperience and underdeveloped body.
However, given the support around them.
ie. resting mids in Goddard/Watson, clever small-mediums in Winderlich/ Chappy, and role players who can contribute Hardy/Ambrose, not to mention a capable resting ruck.
It wasn't unrealistic to think that we could pinch a spot in the Top 4, given our strong defence, and deep midfield.
Unfortunately, they don't hand out Top 4 spots.
Turns out, you have to do a lot right to earn them.
To answer your last point.
If we made the GF in 2015, I would hope that JD, Carlisle, and a sometimes resting ruck would be able to have a far better influence on the game than they are having now.
After all, that is 17 months, and 40 games away.
Unless we trade for an established KP forward (unlikely).
51


perception is not always reality. Just cos you see what someone says as pessimistic doesn't actually make it so.

No, you are pessimistic.
Almost all of the time.
Every single Blitzer will agree with this point.
Remember 2 years ago this time, when you said we were being unimaginative c*nts for not resting several players in a game we had virtually no chance of winning (Carlton), with a short lead in to ANZAC Day.
3 qtrs later we are leading the Blues by 50.
You don't have a lot of faith in the side, but that does not mean that you are always wrong.
FWIW, I'm having grave doubts right now about our aspirations to achieve anything meaningful this year.
I hope all the pieces come together in 2015, because the time is now for this list.
Again your perception of what I and others do or don't say is pessimistic more than anything.
Case in point if I was to say Melbourne are **** for reasons x y and z I bet you wouldn't argue with me.
If I Essendon will struggle to with reasons x y and z I'm all of a sudden a "pessimist".
I actually try to be honest and objective as much as I can. I know that's hard for you and certain others to see cos you don't like me or what I say, meh.
I also don't think I said we had no chance of winning against Carlton, I did however say personally I would have rathered a win on anzac day than not, and if it required resting players and a loss against carlton so be it. Funny though,
I'm very critical of the club, coaches and players when I don't think they are doing the right thing, by what I think. Again if your perception of that is being pessimistic, that says more about you, than anything I or others say.
Funny though you admit to having grave doubts about us this year, yet i've admitted if we play to our potential we can be top 4, and still stand by that. However if we don't we will struggle to continue to be middle of the road, funny that hey I believe we should be better than we have been, and we could be anything, but am continually critical when we aren't, yet that makes me pessimistic in your eyes.
the main thing that shits me though is the over exaggeration of our awesomeness mostly from supporters. **** like oh we will belt Freo and the Saints the last 2 weeks, how's that gone ?
Pointing out the fact that we've lost games to ***** opponents in recent history, and we shouldn't even as supporters go in arrogantly thinking we will win, is not pessimistic.
So i stand by your perception of what is and isn't pessimistic is again not actual reality except to you and others like you who are so narrowmindedly obtuse in their thinking.
Thankfully most who think like that I have blocked so I won't have to read their response, despite some still continually replying to me thinking I care or can even read their dribble :)

Letting the excited optimism and enthusiasm of Essendon supporters be the thing that really ■■■■■ you seems, in my perception (let's not worry about reality), to be a very negative frame of mind. Particularly for an Essendon fan. We are after all talking about something that doesn't matter in the slighest whether it is misguided or justified.
52

We are not good enough to rest players. What kind of message does it send to the rest of the group about how seriously you take the opposition if you rest one of your key players.

You play your best team each week unless they are injured. Don’t mess with form and personnel when you don’t have to. Coaches always say that no game is more important than the next. Then show it with your team selection!

53

Relax DKP, your thoughts are most welcome in this thread.

I read most of your posts with interest, though I do get slightly annoyed when the team deserves some kudos, yet you choose to focus on negatives.

Still, that is your prerogative, and everyone shall be heard in this thread.

Clearly, there are some concerns ATM.

Hence the need for this thread.

For us worrywarts…

54

I don’t expect us to win the flag this year and haven’t expected that at any point. I think we’re a 5th to 8th team.

I did expect us to beat the saints so my confidence in that 5th to 8th has taken a hit. It’s the first time in many years we’ve lost a winnable game so early in the season. I know we’ve got a history of this type of loss but it usually starts later.

What I’d like to see for the first time in years is us improving as the season goes on and hitting august (and hopefully September) in our best form. Our best form is clearly very competitive with anyone. I just hope we’ve prepared differently this season and are going to show it later and for longer.

So I’m not losing hope yet but I will if the Pies flog us and we struggle to get over the Dogs and Lions.

55

You’ll never be as good as us over in the lid off thread

#teamlidoff

56

You'll never be as good as us over in the lid off thread
#teamlidoff


I wanna hang out with the cool kids in your thread, I really do, but we needed some balance.
Hopefully, we hit the Bye at 6 - 3, and this thread ends up on Page 2 ( or even 3).
57

Yes, we are rubbish.

And I want Zaka et al to believe that as they sign up to new contracts.

And then I want to give them an almighty ■■■■■-slap, flying high style, to snap them out of it.

…then, then, I want TBC/Demps/Kommer/Dalgleish/Hams/Pears back fit, putting pressure on the senior team to perform, and filling in when Delhi belly blows through the joint.

58

Gap year

59

On field its been close to if not the worst 10 years in the clubs history.  We haven't even won a finals since the elim in 2004 & our last 2 finals in 09 & 11 were massive embarrasing losses.  Even thinking the lid should be painted in anticipation for removal is premature.

60

The Aston Villa of the AFL.