Pell and other allegations

The Catholic church have a concept of “hating the sin, not the sinner”. This gives them an “out” when it comes to punishing their rapists.
Just a few Hail Mary’s or Our Fathers then you’re off the hook, and nothing more done. No reporting to police, nothing. The child rapist is simply sent elsewhere, so they become some other parishes’ problem. And, of course, it enables them to spread their evil further afield. This is official church policy.
Any other institution that fosters this pedaling in filth would be shut down in an instant, but you can’t shut down a church, can you? A church is all about god… the church has it all worked out.
The churches’ priests, apparently their gods’ representatives on Earth, actively encourage the protection of child rapists, so what they are saying is that their god condones this behaviour.
Reprehensible.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

A rumour about child sexual assaults cannot just be left as rumour. No matter what station in life you are at, or influence you have, to go to authorities if you hear rumours of child sexual assault. No excuses in my book.

I am catholic and the behaviour of the Church to deal with this is nothing short of horrendous.

I agree with what you are saying but it was a different time back then.

Things have definitely changed now though.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

A rumour about child sexual assaults cannot just be left as rumour. No matter what station in life you are at, or influence you have, to go to authorities if you hear rumours of child sexual assault. No excuses in my book.

I am catholic and the behaviour of the Church to deal with this is nothing short of horrendous.

I agree with what you are saying but it was a different time back then.

Things have definitely changed now though.

I hope so. Maybe the victims want to hear that from Pell…that this can never ever happen again.

If this RC proceeds in the same fashion as what I know of the UK equivalent, this will not be a prosecution exercise, but more of a cathartic exposure of ugly truths. There is little value to the church or its leaders in obfuscating and avoiding questions. Even the appearance of trying to dodge responsibility can only be damaging to the church’s standing in the community. At its core this is a PR exercise by legal channels, a PR exercise that can give immense benefit to those harmed, a very important and positive use of PR. Occurrences of child abuse have been common knowledge in the community for over 40 years, so any attempt to plead ignorance in the face of such broad knowledge simply rings false.

There’s a good chance Pell saw or heard things that were concerning to say the least. As rumours spread through the community, it would be quite reasonable to take some form of investigation at a minimum even if he had no personal knowledge. Pell’s poor answers to the previous questions, along with his resistance to returning home for the RC have painted him in a horrible light. It may be unfair on a perfectly good individual, it may also be that he is trying to hide from what happened. Either way, this could have been a brilliant gesture from the church to make good on the pain it caused. Instead he has created more distrust and anger in the community.

There is no long term value to either his or the church’s reputation by how he has acted through all this.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

DayTripper, are you Catholic ?

Whether is was 1960 or 2015, buggering little boys was wrong.

Roman Catholic Priests do not by design believe there is good in everyone. They believe in redemption and the weird concept of absolution. Confession and absolution are the biggest dangers of all to children, because this mindset means go can do anything you want and confess and start all over again with a clean slate, after saying ten Hail Marys.

Pell needs to make himself available in Australia for his church to move on from this.

I love his Pope song.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

He wasn’t “just an ordinary priest” as you keep proclaiming, I have already listed all of that for you. Stop ignoring facts presented.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

He wasn’t “just an ordinary priest” as you keep proclaiming, I have already listed all of that for you. Stop ignoring facts presented.

Oh thats right he edited the widely read and tremondously popular ‘Light’ newspaper which was for the Ballarat area.

Obviously that carried a huge amount of power.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

DayTripper, are you Catholic ?

Whether is was 1960 or 2015, buggering little boys was wrong.

Roman Catholic Priests do not by design believe there is good in everyone. They believe in redemption and the weird concept of absolution. Confession and absolution are the biggest dangers of all to children, because this mindset means go can do anything you want and confess and start all over again with a clean slate, after saying ten Hail Marys.

Pell needs to make himself available in Australia for his church to move on from this.

He is making himself available by video link.
Just like Billy Boy did during his appearance at the Union RC.

The church has moved on and put in steps. Unfortunately the feral lynch mob (who in the main hate Catholics) have not moved on and never will.
Hasn’t the saga taught you anything?

Pell did more than edit a newspaper during said period.

Easily discovered from wiki:

"In 1971, he returned to Australia and was assigned to serve as an assistant priest in Swan Hill, where he remained for two years.[2] He then served at a parish in Ballarat East from 1973 to 1983, becoming administrator of the parish of Bungaree in 1984.[2] In 1982, he earned a Master of Education degree from Monash University in Melbourne.[5] During his tenure in Ballarat East and Bungaree, he also served as Episcopal Vicar for Education (1973–84), director of the Aquinas campus of the Institute of Catholic Education (1974–84) and principal of the Institute of Catholic Education (1981–84).[5] He was also editor of Light, the newspaper of the Diocese of Ballarat, from 1979 to 1984.[2]

From 1985 to 1987, Pell served as seminary rector of his alma mater, Corpus Christi College.[5]"

Pell did more than edit a newspaper during said period.

Easily discovered from wiki:

"In 1971, he returned to Australia and was assigned to serve as an assistant priest in Swan Hill, where he remained for two years.[2] He then served at a parish in Ballarat East from 1973 to 1983, becoming administrator of the parish of Bungaree in 1984.[2] In 1982, he earned a Master of Education degree from Monash University in Melbourne.[5] During his tenure in Ballarat East and Bungaree, he also served as Episcopal Vicar for Education (1973–84), director of the Aquinas campus of the Institute of Catholic Education (1974–84) and principal of the Institute of Catholic Education (1981–84).[5] He was also editor of Light, the newspaper of the Diocese of Ballarat, from 1979 to 1984.[2]

From 1985 to 1987, Pell served as seminary rector of his alma mater, Corpus Christi College.[5]"

WOW.
Sounds like he was a real heavy hitter with that education degree and all that.

Yes he was. Even more so now. A filthy individual who has risen to a very powerful position in his employ.

Yes he was. Even more so now. A filthy individual who has risen to a very powerful position in his employ.
Hard to argue with someone who is obviously so all over the details.

I’ll bring the rope and you can bring the chair.

Yes he was. Even more so now. A filthy individual who has risen to a very powerful position in his employ.
Hard to argue with someone who is obviously so all over the details.

I’ll bring the rope and you can bring the chair.

More difficult to argue with someone who creates their own ‘facts’. Combine it with constant strawman comments and copypasta and you have, well…you.

Kind of funny, I ain’t even mad.
I should be. Should be quite offended at some of the garbage you’ve posted.

I guess it’s because this obviously isn’t about Pell, or child abuse, or corruption for you.
It’s about some weirdly perceived attack on the right wing.
And I don’t even know what to do with that.

Ffs. What a way to spend an hour , wading through this rubbish.

Brief thoughts:

  1. minchin isnt funny, or even particularly clever . Subjective judgement only on my part. Ymmv.

  2. far more funny is Daytrippers totally off the handle and way over the top opening rant. At least i thought it amusing, until i noticed an almost identical rant in todays HS from a certain columnist.

  3. there ARE problems with timelines. IT, if one of the “facts” you are referring to is Pell being part of a meeting about moving Ridsdale out of Victoria in 1982, its worth noting that according to some accounts the paedo was already shifted to Sydney in 1981. He was certainly there in 82. Part of the problem is the blurred timelines and actions in this whole disgraceful event. Id be wary of trumpeting certain “facts”.

  4. a couple of posts alleging specifics against Pell are clearly defamatory and will be removed for the sake of this site and its owner. Wake up to yourselves. Consider yourselves warned.

  5. the thing that does ■■■■ me off is DT’s effective derision and attempted undermining of various accounts, specifically Wimmera’s friends using generalised statements that arent supported or followed up on. 10 minutes research reveals the statement “Ridsdale was in sydney for most of the 80’s” is untrue. He was abusing boys in melbourne in 1980. He was in mortlake in 1981. Its unclear whether he was shifted to Sydney in late 81 or early 82 (accounts differ). He was certainly back in Vic by 1986. Wim stated that he believes the time period was around 1980-1983. The paedo was in Vic for two of those years with Pell a contemporary. Its entirely consistent and possible. This bullshit of screaming outrage from the rooftops but not addressing specifics is a pattern. In this case, at best its offensive and distasteful. With form. When you return, ffs focus on footy.

  6. he’s under no obligation to discuss his family, kids situation etc. So shut up about it.

  7. pure personal observation but Pell is a political animal, not a spiritual leader. Ive met him a few times and hes totally unimpressive in terms of his humanity and warmth. This alone would raise the ire of victims.

Say Pell didn't know for sure, is seems to be inconceivable that he hadn't heard the rumours of what was happening. Rumours of sexual abuse are an immediate cause of action. Those children needed protection from the devil and he did nothing to help them.
We are talking about the 70s and 80s here when he was basically just an ordinary priest. And it was a different time back then.

He himself admits that things could have and should have been handled better. But unless someone invents a time machine I’m not sure exactly what people want from him now.

And at the end of the day a rumor is just a rumor. You can confront a person and ask but if they deny it then what?

One more point: Priests by design instinctively believe there is good in everyone and that everyone can be forgiven - no matter what horrific crimes someone might have done. I don’t think the every day person quite understands that concept.

DayTripper, are you Catholic ?

Whether is was 1960 or 2015, buggering little boys was wrong.

Roman Catholic Priests do not by design believe there is good in everyone. They believe in redemption and the weird concept of absolution. Confession and absolution are the biggest dangers of all to children, because this mindset means go can do anything you want and confess and start all over again with a clean slate, after saying ten Hail Marys.

Pell needs to make himself available in Australia for his church to move on from this.

He is making himself available by video link.
Just like Billy Boy did during his appearance at the Union RC.

The church has moved on and put in steps. Unfortunately the feral lynch mob (who in the main hate Catholics) have not moved on and never will.
Hasn’t the saga taught you anything?

The victims are part of your feral lynch mob who haven’t moved on. Can, or should, the church move on while they haven’t? If they want him here, he should be here. If he can’t be here due to ill-health, then they should offer to pay for the travel costs of all the victims who wish to witness his testimony first-hand and for all their legal representatives who may wish to cross-examine him. The church owes them far more than that.

Pell did more than edit a newspaper during said period.

Easily discovered from wiki:

"In 1971, he returned to Australia and was assigned to serve as an assistant priest in Swan Hill, where he remained for two years.[2] He then served at a parish in Ballarat East from 1973 to 1983, becoming administrator of the parish of Bungaree in 1984.[2] In 1982, he earned a Master of Education degree from Monash University in Melbourne.[5] During his tenure in Ballarat East and Bungaree, he also served as Episcopal Vicar for Education (1973–84), director of the Aquinas campus of the Institute of Catholic Education (1974–84) and principal of the Institute of Catholic Education (1981–84).[5] He was also editor of Light, the newspaper of the Diocese of Ballarat, from 1979 to 1984.[2]

From 1985 to 1987, Pell served as seminary rector of his alma mater, Corpus Christi College.[5]"

WOW.
Sounds like he was a real heavy hitter with that education degree and all that.

You like to muddy the waters but this time you have failed.

Pell was in a position on many occasions to know exactly what was going on.

He shared a house for many years with the guy, he worked with Ridsdale’s leaders closely, he was on the leadership group that moved the priest elsewhere after the accusations kept piling up. He was the editor of the local paper that all priests and clergy read in the region and would have been across most of the rumours at the time.

You keep ignoring the facts that Pell would most definitely, imo, have been aware of the accusations been leveled from many different people at Ridsdale. The first documented one was in 1975, right smack bang when Pell was close to all those involved with the situation.

I am not accusing Pell of doing anything wrong during that period mind you, I am saying that he would most certainly, imo, have been aware of the accusations.

good job, sal.

inb4 cool your jets mod lover.

Poor ol’ BD must have lost his cool, too.

Looks like it’s a good thing I quit this thread on the first page!