Hooker is a forward
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I reckon he only gets beaten about 4 times a year and heās only getting better. Give him a couple more years and he will be in blokesā heads, they will dread playing on him, at which point he will almost never lose.
Nah, Lucas was a forward.
Hooker is a backman.
I agree with all of that.
None of it has anything at all to do with the discussion re: Hurleyās one-on-one defending.
Of course heās a gun, thatās not the point.
Whether itās one on one is irrelevant.
The game is not played one on one anymore. You could have multiple opponents throughout the game and more and more defenders are guarding space.
Hartley may win more one on ones like you say but thatās because itās his primary role and and best suited to his skill set. Hartley struggles defending as it is but imagine if he took the offensive responsibility that Hurley does. He to would have less one on ones.
Hurleyās best aquisite is cutting the ball off through superior reading of the play. Itās the most important defensive action in the game now. He averages 25 possessions a game( thatās high for a defender) and of those 25, 8.5 are intercepts. An intercept is defined by a possession that is won that breaks up the chain of the opposition. Hurley does it a lot and on top of that he also sets up the majority of our play.
Hurley sh!ts all over Hartley in defensive actions and also does most of our attack from defence.
Againā¦ What does this have to do with the discussion? Are you saying that, in the modern game, one on one contests donāt happen? Oppositionās donāt have key forwards any more? That there is no need for guys who can defend one on one?
You donāt need to sell me on the fact that Hurley is the best rebounding defender in the game by some margin. But if we come up against a forward line with a few talls, Ambrose / Hurley / Gleeson is not gonna cut the mustard, unless Hurls turns this aspect around.
And he most certainly can, and hopefully will. If he got back to 2015 levelsā¦ Then heās friggin unstoppable, and we wonāt have to play an extra key back.
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Curious all this, ā¦ considering Scotty was fantastic as a CHB, ā¦ and Hooksey was originally a fwd BEFORE he became a backman, ā¦ and is proving a fwd again. ā¦and IIRC. Lucas was a back who became a fwd, and then went back again.
Also, that they are very similar characters who I have very similar man love & respect for.
Anyway, ā¦ carry on.
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If you canāt understand that heās not only a rebounding defender then I have nothing more I can say.
Rebounding and intercepting are two different things.
Intercepting is a defensive action. Thatās why modern footy is all about zoning.
Do you have any desire to address the original point, or are you just gonna keep saying āYeah, but modern footy?ā
Key forwards still exist. So does the need to have a guy (or two) who can stop them. The rest of what youāre saying is irrelevant to that particular point.
You made two points.
Your first point was that Hartley is a better one on one defender. This point is debatable.
Your second point was that Hurley needs to change his game. This point is the one Iām addressing!
Hurley will play a similar role next season and with better fitness will more than likely step up again from what was a stellar season. He will not be checking opposition forwards. He will be playing the intercepting role again.
Hartley needs to improve in both facets of his game to get a gig in my opinion. I expect Ambrose to get back to his best and I think the midfield will help eleviate some of the issues we had with defending this season.
I personally donāt have Hartley in my side on the form he produced this year.
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Hurley is a natural body on body defender. Problem is last year they trimmed him down so much his biggest strength in the contest was nullified. By all reports from training he has trimmed down even more.
Coming in as 3rd man he was very good last year. In terms of actual defending one on one he was average. In the final he was putrid.
If Ambrose goes does with an injury I genuinely worry about our backline standing up without him against power forwards.
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OK, fair enough.
On point one, I only think that was the case based on last year, and itās more a statement of how ordinary Hurley was in this regard, than a praise of Hartley.
Second pointā¦ Well, if that is the case, we are left short imo if Ambrose and Gleeson are the only other options on the ground to play on big forwards.
My preference would be to play only one of Ambrose or Hartley, for the same reasons everyone has stated, but that would require Hurley finding at least some of that 2015 one-on-one form. If he does, well then this is all an irrelevant discussion.
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I agree with you on the Ambrose or Hartley scenario.
Iāve said before if Hartley can improve both defensively and offensively then I would have him. His kicking is an absolute weapon and we need to find a way to unleash it.
But at this stage of their careers Ambrose is in my opinion a more reliable defender. He had his injury concerns this year but he has proven he can stop forwards and has elite endurance.
For mine if they go with both plus Hurley and Gleeson then we we will struggle. Neither Gleeson or Hartley can be relied on defensively and that leaves us exposed.
Iām hoping it clicks for Hartley because he could solve all our problems back there but I just donāt think heās there yet.
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I agree with Peos that we need the 2015 Hurley back. He could rebound (albeit not quite as well as 2017), but his ability to stop his opponent was far superior to his 2017 ability.
If we had 2015 Hurls we could confidently go with just one of Ambrose or Hartley.
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Hard to compare years though I guess.
In 2015 we had two all Australians playing in defence (Hooker half the season) and we were getting smashed.
I think mental issues had a lot to do with that. We were a good team with one arm tied behind our backs.
I agree with that.
Thatās why itās hard to make comparisons like that.
This year our defence was the 6th most efficient. Our scores were blown out by the weight of inside 50ās though.
We also had our best offensive year which is contributed by Hurleyās play down back. A great deal of our attacks were started down backs
Balance is the key to it all. If our midfield was slightly better then we would have been a top four side.
Yep, already our midfield is looking better and the training drills seem to have a strong focus on contests. Myers and Parish have been really good then the next line of Ambrose and Gleeson make a great combo. Backline looks solid and the forwardline looks frightening. Top 2 
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And a very good one, but as Woosha says, he will be doing a bit of both this year and if our forward line can work without Hooker as well as with it, then Hooker is the perfect back up in case a Hurley, Ambo and Gleeson tall defender combo isnāt quite cutting it.
Yes.
Hooker is also a forward.
Hooker would have won the clubs goal kicking every year since 2008 except for this year with the total he kicked this year.
Hooker IS a forward
He is also a backman.
The question actually is, does Stringer or Stewart kick 42 goals with hooker back
Or does hooker stop 42 more goals than Hartley?
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