Interesting what is going on in the US at the moment with the goverment shut down
I have a question for those that may know more about US law than myself, do they have any provisions within thier constitition similar to our Double Dissolution?
is that a possibility in this instance? (maybe what repubicans are going for)
As far as I know the only way to remove a President is through impeachment in both houses. Clinton for instance was impeached in the House of Reps where simple majority is required but survived in the Senate vote where I think a 2/3rds majority is needed. This won't happen I wouldn't think. The Yanks love their parliamentary checks and balances but a compromise will be reached eventually.
No double dissolutions. The govt just shuts down and stuff doesn’t get done until someone blinks. And then we do it all over again in a few weeks for the debt limit vote, only second time round the stakes are higher - the US defaulting on its debt and near-immediate global recession
I seem to remember on West Wing, and of course it must be true, that Jeb the President went to Capital Hill for Joint sitting of Senate and Congress to get the Money Bill passed.
Even if that were a real thing (I have no idea if it is) the republicans have a big enough congressional majority to cancel out the democrats senate majority. So the bill won’t pass.
I read that past Oct 17, the US Treasury will run out of money to pay the interest on the 16.7 trillion debt Uncle Sam has run up thus far and will be in technical default. Whereas the government has shutdown many times in the past, the US has never defaulted on its debt. No one really knowns how bad it will affect global financial markets in the short-medium term if that occurs.
All these because the political parties want to play chicken with the US/World economy as stake, thus affecting the lives of millions of people in the US and around the world. What a disgrace.
The only real problem is if they drop down in rating like they did in 2011. That's the main concern. As long as they print money then the debt can be whatever. It's the rating that is the issue.
Obamacare is important and needs to happen.
They need to cut the debt somehow though.
History of US government shutdowns.
<span>Government shutdown in the United States</span>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome_globe_current_event.svg'><img height="40" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Gnome_globe_current_event.svg/40px-Gnome_globe_current_event.svg.png" width="40" alt="40px-Gnome_globe_current_event.svg.png"></a></div>
<span>This article <b>may be affected by a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events' title="Portal:Current events">current event</a></b>. Information in this article may change rapidly as the event progresses. <i>(October 2013)</i> </span>
<p>In <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._politics' title="U.S. politics">U.S. politics</a>, a <b>government shutdown</b> is a situation in which the government stops providing all but "essential" services. Typically, federal services that continue despite a shutdown include the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service' title="National Weather Service">National Weather Service</a> and its parent agencies, medical services at federal facilities, the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service' title="United States Postal Service">postal service</a>, armed forces, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_traffic_control' title="Air traffic control">air traffic management</a>, and corrections (the penal system). A government shutdown is similar to a <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout_%28industry%29' title="Lockout (industry)">lockout</a> in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector' title="Private sector">private sector</a>.</p>
Contents
<span>Mechanism of a shutdown</span>
The separation of powers created by the United States Constitution allows different branches of the federal government to be controlled by different political factions. In the case of the federal budget, both the Senate and House of Representatives must approve an agreed budget, which then goes to the President of the United States for signature. If the President vetoes the budget, it goes back to Congress, where the veto can be overridden by a two-thirds vote. Government shutdowns tend to occur when the President and one or both of the chambers of Congress are controlled by different political parties and are unable to resolve disagreements over budget allocations before the existing budget cycle ends.[citation needed]
Shutdowns of the type experienced by the United States are nearly impossible in other industrialized nations. Under the parliamentary system used in most European nations, the executive and legislative branch are controlled by the same party or coalition, and a breakdown in communication between the two branches triggers the orderly collapse of the government and a new round of elections. In non-parliamentary democracies, a strong executive branch typically has the authority to keep the government functioning even without an approved budget. This was the case in the United States up until 1980, when the administration of Jimmy Carter interpreted the 1884 Antideficiency Act to limit the power of federal agencies in the lack of congressional approval.[1]
<span>Effects</span>
A federal government shutdown causes a large number of civilian federal employees to be furloughed. Military personnel and essential employees are not furloughed, but may not be paid as scheduled.[2][3]
The exact details of which government functions would stop during a shutdown is determined by the Office of Management and Budget.[4] However, some specific aspects have applied to all shutdowns in the past. Among these is the closure of national parks and passport offices.[5] "Emergency personnel" continue to be employed, including the military, federal law enforcement agents, doctors and nurses working in federal hospitals, and air traffic controllers.[4] Members of Congress continue to be paid, because their pay cannot be altered except by direct law.[6] Mail delivery is not affected as it is self-funded.[7]
Shutdowns in the past have also affected the Washington, D.C., municipal government, putting a stop to schools and to utilities such as garbage collection.[8]
<span>List of U.S. government shutdowns</span>
<span>Federal government</span>
The United States Federal Government has shut down on 18 occasions since 1976:[9][10]
Year
Start date
End date
Total days
Explanation
1976
September 30
October 11
10
Citing out of control spending, President <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford' title="Gerald Ford">Gerald Ford</a> vetoed a funding bill for the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Labor' title="United States Department of Labor">United States Department of Labor</a> and the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Health,_Education,_and_Welfare' title="United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare">United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare</a> (HEW), leading to a partial government shutdown. On October 1, the Democratic-controlled Congress overrode Ford's veto but it took until October 11 for a continuing resolution ending funding gaps for other parts of government to become law.
1977
September 30
October 13
12
The Democratic-controlled House continued to uphold the ban on using Medicaid dollars to pay for abortions, except in cases where the life of the mother was at stake. Meanwhile, the Democratic-controlled Senate pressed to loosen the ban to allow abortion funding in the case of rape or incest. A funding gap was created when disagreement over the issue between the houses had become tied to funding for the Departments of Labor and HEW, leading to a partial government shutdown. A temporary agreement was made to restore funding through October 31, 1977, allowing more time for Congress to resolve its dispute.
1977
October 31
November 9
8
The earlier temporary funding agreement expired. President <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter' title="Jimmy Carter">Jimmy Carter</a> signed a second funding agreement to allow for more time for negotiation.
1977
November 30
December 9
8
The second temporary funding agreement expired. The House held firm against against the Senate in its effort to ban Medicaid paying for the abortions of victims of statutory rape. A deal was eventually struck which allowed Medicaid to pay for abortions in cases resulting from rape, incest, or in which the mother's health is at risk.
1978
September 30
October 18
18
Deeming them wasteful, President Carter vetoed a public works appropriations bill and a defense bill including funding for a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Spending for the Department of HEW was also delayed over additional disputes concerning Medicaid funding for abortion.
1979
September 30
October 12
11
Against the opposition of the Senate, the House pushed for a 5.5 percent pay increase for congress members and senior civil servants. The House also sought to restrict federal spending on abortion only to cases where the mother's life is in danger, while the Senate wanted to maintain funding for abortions in cases of rape and incest.
1981
November 20
November 23
2
President <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan' title="Ronald Reagan">Ronald Reagan</a> pledged that he would veto any spending bill that failed to include at least half of the $8.4 billion in domestic budget cuts that he proposed. Although the Republican controlled Senate passed a bill that met his specifications, the Democratic House insisted on larger cuts to defense than Reagan wanted and for congressional and civil servant pay raises. A compromise bill fell $2 billion short of the cuts Reagan wanted, so Reagan vetoed the bill and shut down the federal government. A temporary bill restored spending through 15 December and gave Congress the time to work out a more lasting deal.
1982
September 30
October 2
1
Congress passed the required spending bills a day late.
1982
December 17
December 21
3
The Democratic controlled House and the Republican controlled Senate wished to fund jobs, but President Reagan vowed to veto any such legislation. The House also opposed plans to fund the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_missile' title="MX missile">MX missile</a>. The shutdown ended after Congress abandoned their jobs plan, but Reagan was forced to yield on funding for both the MX and <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-31_Pershing#Pershing_II' title="MGM-31 Pershing">Pershing II missiles</a>. He also accepted funding for the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_Services_Corporation' title="Legal Services Corporation">Legal Services Corporation</a>, which he wanted abolished, in exchange for higher foreign aid to Israel.
1983
November 10
November 14
3
The Democratic controlled House increased education funding, but cut defense and foreign aid spending, which led to a dispute with President Reagan. Eventually, the House reduced their proposed education funding, and also accepted funding for the MX missile. However, the foreign aid and defense cuts remained, and oil and gas leasing was banned in federal wildlife refuges. Abortion was also prohibited for being paid for with government employee health insurance.
1984
September 30
October 3
2
The House wished to link the budget to both a crime-fighting package President Reagan supported and a water projects package he did not. The Senate additionally tied the budget to a civil rights measure designed to overturn <i><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_City_v._Bell' title="Grove City v. Bell">Grove City v. Bell</a></i>. Reagan proposed a compromise where he abandoned his crime package in exchange for Congress dropping theirs. A deal was not struck, and a three-day spending extension was passed instead.
1984
October 3
October 5
1
The three-day spending extension expired, forcing a shutdown. Congress dropped their proposed water and civil rights packages, while President Reagan kept his crime package. Funding for aid to the Nicaraguan <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras' title="Contras">Contras</a> was also passed.
1986
October 16
October 18
1
A dispute over multiple issues between the Democratic controlled House and President Reagan and the Republican Senate forced a shutdown. The Democratic controlled House dropped many of their demands in exchange for a vote on their welfare package, and a concession of the sale of then-government-owned <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrail' title="Conrail">Conrail</a>.
1987
December 18
December 20
1
Democrats, who now controlled both the House and the Senate, opposed funding for the Contras, and wanted the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission' title="Federal Communications Commission">Federal Communications Commission</a> to begin reenforcing the "<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine' title="Fairness Doctrine">Fairness Doctrine</a>". They yielded on the "Fairness Doctrine" in exchange for non-lethal aid to the Contras.
1990
October 5
October 9
4
President <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H.W._Bush' title="George H.W. Bush">George H.W. Bush</a> vowed to veto any <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_resolution' title="Continuing resolution">continuing resolution</a> that was not paired with a deficit reduction package, and did so when one reached his desk. The House failed to override his veto before a shutdown occurred. Congress then passed a continuing resolution with a deficit reduction package that Bush signed to end the shutdown.
1995
November 13
November 19
5
In the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_1995_and_1996' title="United States federal government shutdown of 1995 and 1996">shutdown of 1995 and 1996</a> President <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton' title="Bill Clinton">Bill Clinton</a> vetoed a continuing resolution passed by the Republican-controlled Congress. A deal was reached allowing for 75 percent funding for four weeks, and Clinton agreed to a seven-year timetable for a balanced budget.
1995
December 16
January 6, 1996
21
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_1995_and_1996' title="United States federal government shutdown of 1995 and 1996">Subsequently</a> the Republicans demanded President Clinton propose a budget with the seven-year timetable using <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_Office' title="Congressional Budget Office">Congressional Budget Office</a> numbers, rather than Clinton's <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Management_and_Budget' title="Office of Management and Budget">Office of Management and Budget</a> numbers. However, Clinton refused. Eventually, Congress and Clinton agreed to pass a compromise budget.
2013
October 1
Ongoing
Ongoing
Due to disagreement regarding inclusion of language delaying the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' class="" href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act' title="Affordable Care Act">Affordable Care Act</a>,<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown#cite_note-11'><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a></sup> the Government has not passed a funding bill. Negotiations have come to a stop and the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013' title="United States federal government shutdown of 2013">United States federal government shutdown of 2013</a> is in progress.
<span>Local governments</span>
<span>See also</span>
FALSE FLAG SHEEPLE.
Ahh, democracy at its finest. See how well it works Iran, china ect.
Lol Ted Cruz.
"Cruz? He delivered a 21-hour-long speech to delay his fellow politicians from doing their job, then pressured his leaders into shutting down the government. It isn't much of a record."
Cato Style tactics right there.
And this country is the shining example that we are all meant to follow. F**kin fruit cakes more like it.
"Cruz? He delivered a 21-hour-long speech to delay his fellow politicians from doing their job, then pressured his leaders into shutting down the government. It isn't much of a record."
Cato Style tactics right there.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!
One of Cato's famous quotes!
No, there is no provision for a double dissolution or anything like that. I sure as fark wish there was, because this is the perfect time for it. But I don't think longterm it would make that much of a difference.
We are being held hostage by a minority party within a minority party who are untouchable in their own districts, mainly because their own districts are full of the most backwards, racist, white trash pieces of **** who are still trying to fight the Civil War 150 years later.
The founding fathers, in all their infinite wisdom, set up a system of equal representation where 150 inbred arseholes in Kentucky should have as much political power as the entire population New York City or Boston.
Anywhere from 60-70% of the US is in favor of at least some of the provisions of Obamacare (which in my opinion isn't all that flash, but an improvement on the status quo), but that didn't stop these jerkoffs from attempting to repeal it 42 times.
This was passed into law 3 1/2 years ago. The President based his entire re-election campaign on it, and won by a comfortable margin. What part of "this is what the majority of the people want" do these dickwads not understand?
I feel for you Stealth.
It's okay.... it really doesn't affect me that much. I tend to live mostly amongst people who "get it".
Unfortunately, the batsh*t crazy minority has figured out how to hold the rest of us hostage.
So. The US. Failed central government. Engages in unsanctioned military actions on other nations. Well armed but disorganised internal militias. Oil reserves. Why haven't we invaded?
So. The US. Failed central government. Engages in unsanctioned military actions on other nations. Well armed but disorganised internal militias. Oil reserves. Why haven't we invaded?
Thanks. Another coffee on monitor moment!
So. The US. Failed central government. Engages in unsanctioned military actions on other nations. Well armed but disorganised internal militias. Oil reserves. Why haven't we invaded?
Abbott's moving the troops into Pine Gap as we type.