Of the very few Republicans that pushed back two of the strongest voices were Tim Scott and Will Hurd. The only two black Republicans in Congress.
“The cruelty is the point”
One thing my late Father (an immigrant to the US in the 70s) always told me was that the US was the most merit-based society he ever encountered. This, even after he finished a PhD in 3yrs (a year ahead of schedule) yet got rejected for job after job due to his skin color. He loved this country even though he had to leave it to build a career outside.
Wonder how he would react to the madness on Twitter these last 24hrs?
Latest New Hampshire poll of the Democrat Primary field
Biden: 21%
Harris: 18%
Warren: 17%
Buttigieg: 12%
Sanders: 10%
Cut out some of the side bits to get to the meat.
A quotation for context would be appreciated. Its possible they referring to the Mueller report which found sufficient evidence that he recommended impeachment. But if you are standing by your claim (that they said they had the evidence to convict Trump but didn’t give it to Mueller) I’d like to see a link to support this stance.
I just want to quote this bit specifically and LOL. The Republican investigation of Trump organised by his own Republican AG and run by the Republican Mueller found he couldn’t exonerate Trump and that he should be impeached. There hasn’t been a Democrat investigation yet.
But the real LOL part, is this is coming from a Republican supporter. Did you not pay any attention to what the Republican’s did when Obama was in charge? You know, how many investigations into Benghazi that found, erm, nothing? Or “her emails”?
Republicans are the ones who pushed investigation after investigation that found nothing, but they talked talked talked about it. They’re just upset now that their own candidate actually does appear to have committed wrong doing. So now the investigations, run by their own party, are “fake”.
Firstly, the 61 million babies dead is a pretty big misnomer. There is lots of evidence that women who have abortions have kids later in life, when they can be better supported in a more stable home environment. So frequently it isn’t one dead, its just about controlling when the child is born.
It was posted above by people who linked that access to abortion leads to lower crime. i.e. benefit to society. It also increases women’s salaries, helps reduce poverty, and reduces dependence on the government and social welfare system. It reduces deaths of adult women, and the injuries caused by illegal abortions. It protects victims of rape. It protects the mother when a pregnancy is expected to risk her life. It means that more babies that are born are healthy with good prospects.
The comment on wishing oneself was aborted is a pretty terrible argument. The answer to that is “duh”.
One of the reasons most doctors don’t do abortions in the states is for a number of reasons. Like other types of the health system, you need to specialise, and that comes with risks. Additionally, even if abortions were totally free and accessible you would still only have a small percentage of doctors doing it because the demand isn’t there. In the USA, many states have been making it tougher and tougher to do abortions, meaning there is a great deal of professional risk to spending the time studying to do it. Then there is the fact that the anti-abortion crowd often picket you, and not infrequently murder you. So given all of this, there are very good reasons why most doctors don’t go down that path.
But I do find it funny how with one hand nobody is offering it, but with the other you claim its a multi-billion dollar industry.
It would be nice if you could come up with some coherent arguments.
As stated, the WHO disagrees with you. But why should anyone trust you when you lie? I looked up Goswell as I’d never heard of him, and it turns out he has been convicted of involuntary manslaughter for one adult. So you lied on the 6-8 murders. There goes your evidence that deaths of women is more likely in a legal environment.
But here are some questions
- If the Republican’s are so concerned about abortions, why did they initiate legislation to strip coverage of contraception from the ACA?
- If the Republican’s are so concerned about the life of the infants, why do they strip away support for single mothers, fight the entry of maternity leave, and demonise single mothers during elections?
- If the Republicans want to reduce abortions, why do they fight against the world leading systems that promote lower conception and abortion rates? Why do they support systems known to lead to higher teen pregnancy and abortions?
Trump is great if you are OK with a leader who:
- Is a compulsive liar,
- Is a vain braggart,
- Has public tantrums when criticised,
- Tries to destroy critics and supress criticism,
- Mocks disabled people,
- Is a proud pu$$y-grabber and likely rapist,
- Relaxes gun controls and advocates more guns in schools,
- Introduces massive tax cuts that favour the wealthy only,
- Is wilfully ignorant of climate science and impact of climate change,
- Removes environmental safeguards,
- Cosies up to brutal tyrants while alienating moderate allies,
- Is deliberately manufacturing a war with Iran while arming the Saudis to the teeth,
- Is tolerant of neo-Nazis,
- Runs hate campaigns against migrants,
- Separates thousands of children from their parents & holds them in internment camps.
- Etc. etc. etc.,
Personally, I prefer leaders with more class, integrity, restraint & intelligence. And much better judgement.
Like all bullies, he behaves like a person who is over compensating for deep insecurities. And for reasons I can’t explain, it seems there are always people (like you) who will flock to bullies like him.
It may be slow, but there is increased push back today from Republicans.
Kermit Barron Gosnell (born February 9, 1941) is an American physician[2] and former abortion provider who was convicted of murdering three infants who were born alive during attempted abortion procedures; he was also convicted of involuntary manslaughter of one woman during an abortion procedure.[3][4][5][6][7]
Gosnell owned and operated the Women’s Medical Society clinic in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and he was a prolific prescriber of OxyContin.[8] In 2011, Gosnell and various co-defendant employees were charged with eight counts of [murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder), 24 felony counts of performing illegal abortions beyond the state of Pennsylvania’s 24-week time limit, and 227 misdemeanor counts of violating the 24-hour informed consent law. The murder charges related to an adult patient, Karnamaya Mongar, who died following an abortion procedure, and seven newborns said to have been killed by having their spinal cords severed with scissors after being born alive during attempted abortions. In May 2013, Gosnell was convicted of first degree murder in the deaths of three of the infants and involuntary manslaughter in the death of Karnamaya Mongar. Gosnell was also convicted of 21 felony counts of illegal late-term abortion, and 211 counts of violating the 24-hour informed consent law. After his conviction, Gosnell waived his right to appeal in exchange for an agreement by prosecutors not to seek the death penalty. He was sentenced instead to life in prison without the possibility of parole.[9][10]
So Wikipedia are liars too. Gosnell ran a legal abortion clinic and that was why he was able to get away with these atrocities over a long period of time. He happens to have been someone that was caught. Former workers in abortion clinics have become strongly pro-life because of what goes on in abortion clinics. From time to time they relate their experiences about what goes on in legal abortion clinics but the media doesn’t seem to think it’s that important, after all they are legal operations, so authorities have been very reticent to investigate, knowing they would come under attack from the virulent so called “pro-choice” mob. But, I’m sure people like yourself and most of the posters here, who are so well informed, know this stuff already. It’s just a matter of what is important to you personally. Obviously the innocents who die aren’t. And what about women who have abortions? There are plenty who now consider it the worst thing they’ve ever done. And who supports them today? The pro-choicers? No! The pro-lifers? Yes. Because many have switched sides and counsel others not to make the same mistake. Many have witnessed that after they followed the advice/instructions of those telling them it’s okay to have an abortion, they were ignored and shut out when they began relating the guilt they felt. They are condemned by the left for having a conscience. It is the right who help them find forgiveness and counseling to continue on with their lives. But all this is a matter of public record and no I’m not going to run around to answer every single thing you come up with. Now that’s true obstruction. You can’t provide answers so your tactic is first, call me a liar and then have me waste my time by providing evidence when in fact, it is a matter of public record. I didn’t make it up. It’s there and if you want to find it, go ahead. I’m sure you’re resourceful enough to find it, just, when you do, don’t lie about it.
Your answer is a number of attacks against Trump. Well Gnik, I’m going to use the same tactic that those of your political persuasion are using against me. You have 16 bullets. Please provide examples of each of these, so I know that they are real and not just your personal opinion. Go on. Examples please and provide chapter and verse or I may have to conclude this is just a rather extreme case of TDS. And those leaders you prefer with class, integrity etc. I assume you mean the Clintons? Good God, Lord Jesus Christ Almighty! Are you serious? Where have you been the last 4 decades? And talk about bullies? Don’t you think an independent observer may look at what’s going on here and conclude that I’m being insulted and attacked for what? For not agreeing with those in a cocoon of left wing dogma that must be obeyed at all cost. I had posted once and already there was an attempt to silence/ban me. You know if your only recourse to anyone who disagrees with you is to silence them, then people like me get the idea you’re not only not fair minded, but that you’re really not that certain of your own position.
Seriously? Everything I’ve listed is in the public domain. I don’t think any of the points are particularly controversial or debatable. Are you really unaware of the pu$$y grabbing tape? The video of him mocking a disabled journalist? The vicious attacks on Mueller etc for doing their jobs? His tweet that teachers should be armed? Etc. etc…
And no, the Clintons don’t immediately spring to mind when I think of class & integrity, but then Trump is the lowest of the low in this regard, so almost anyone would be an improvement.
And re. talk of you being banned, this is not due to people disagreeing with you, it is due to you causing offense and distress to people on this forum who may have sought, or are considering, an abortion. You have accused them of murdering babies after all.
Well, since they’re the ones I used for info I’m assuming not. They just contradict you. He was convicted of three murders only, all in respect of babies. You brought him up to specifically refute the argument more adult women died with lawful abortion than when it was illegal. So effectively, you were lying or completely misinformed. Since only one adult died under his care, and unlike what you said he didn’t murder her, exactly which part of your reference to him was correct in the context you were using it?
I doubt there is any profession with a question as charged as this one where people haven’t switched sides. Of course, there are numerous examples of people pro-life who secretly have abortions (or organise them for family).
Of course, when, what, 30 odd states are doing everything they can to stop abortion, claiming the authorities are pro-abortion is pretty ridiculous. You think if someone came forward with decent evidence in Texas or Alabama that someone was breaking the law, that wouldn’t be investigated? The fact nobody has been able to bring such evidence outside of one or two cases like Gosnell would indicate that there just isn’t any evidence.
This would be further supported when right-wing groups try and manufacture evidence, as has occurred in recent times. e.g.
Where officials in 12 states did start investigations, and found… nothing. You know this case, where they used photos of stillborn babies and claimed they’d been aborted? And edited the videos in other ways to effectively lie about what had occurred.
You do realise people changing their mind later isn’t a real argument? Like the above one you said. With this many people involved, with this charged a decision, with the psychology of it, and with the Republicans and anti-abortionists passing laws to mindfuck the patients, why would anyone be surprised some change their minds? Anecdotal, small statistical groups doing this are not a strong argument.
I have no problem with anyone saying their against abortion. Its a personal choice, and I know many people who are pro-choice but would not choose abortion under any circumstances. There is only a small segment of the left who would demonise someone who had second thoughts about what could have been the most important decision they ever made.
Whereas you only need to look outside a clinic, or a political rally in the US, to see exactly how much the right is willing to demonise people who are pro-choice.
Um, you either did lie or you were completely misinformed on your own pet topic.
People in here have made numerous links to articles or pointed at organisations giving evidence backing their position. You’ve made many claims, especially ones that should be factual (if proveable), yet have given one link on one issue, where that link shows you were wrong on the information you originally posted. If you’re going to throw accusations around, you should be able to back them up.
But if you want me to back up 1-2 more of the points I’ve made, please tell me which ones. I’m sure you’ll follow suit … right?
You know what? I reckon that guy going to jail was correct. He knowingly broke the law. He was caught. He was prosecuted. He knew what the line was and he crossed it.
Now the question is was the law reasonable. The only scenario where he’s probably been hard done by is if the fetus wasn’t viable. There’s roughly a 20% chance a healthy 24 week prem baby survives. Late abortions are generally only performed if something is seriously wrong. The ethics of performing an abortion at 6 months because a fetus can not survive once it reaches full term is awkward, but there’s cases that justify it. I’m supportive of late term abortions in this situation. If the fetus is still alive once born, has no chance of survival even with intense medical care… what do you reasonably do? You’ve performed the abortion legally because of a critical medical need, the fetus wasn’t viable as it was and was certain to die, now it’s born and will die in hours or days. Do you extend the suffering or end it? It’s ■■■■■■ up. That’s life. There’s no easy answer.
The world is not black and white. ■■■■ things happen all the time. Women get pregnant from rape. Women get pregnant to abusive partners and won’t be able to flee their abuser if they have that child. Women in poverty cannot feed their children. Babies have medical issues that will result in incredible suffering if they are born. Mothers have medical issues that can result in their death if they have a baby.
But I never see a nuanced position from the right to life camp. It’s ban abortion no matter the harm that’s caused.
Every policy that the right seems to implement increases the the rates of unplanned pregnancy. I don’t get it. Why prevent access to birth control if you don’t like abortions? Why only teach abstinence if it’s guaranteed to result in teenage pregnancy? Why not provide effective resources to support families that cannot adequately provide for their children? There are ■■■■■■ obvious things that can be done to minimise the abortion rate and the right seems to do the worst possible policy on all of them.
■■■■.
So yeah. I get it. I understand the view and feelings of the right to life people. I just don’t get why a ban is the only option they pursue. Why not do all possible things to reduce the number of mothers that need this option?
I’m not going to bother with your religious driven abortion views. There is no rational debate when someone rants about “innocents who die”. I would say this though, my view on abortion is very simple.
it should be safe, legal and rare. Better education all around will help as well. Religious “abstinence” policies help the US having one of the leading teen pregnancy rates in the world.
As for Trump. As @Gnik said “Seriously?” These are all so well documented that it actual taints any view on the topic if you can’t even acknowledge them.
Sure, say you don’t mind having a racist leading the US, but don’t try to pretend he’s not. Everything @Gnik said has ample documentation - often multiple examples. If he wasn’t the President he’d be in prison already.
I just ate some toast. It was delicious.
Citation?
You’ve caught me. I can’t back it up. #FakeToast
He still believes the central park five are guilty as late as last month. He’s an absolute cretin of a human.
Parties with Jeffery Epstein