While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because of people like VD & AaronJohns1.
The rates are dropping for no good (or even bad) reason. That is the key point.
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because when vaccinations were first introduced people literally lined up around the block to get them. They understood how serious things like polio, and measles were.
Once we progressed to a point where they'd been the closest thing to eliminated people forgot how amazing and important vaccinations are. So they decided they could start spreading lies and misinformation, and ignoring the advice of experts.
So now we're starting to see outbreaks of diseases that had been controlled for a generation, or more.
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
it's beneficial to pretty much everyone and far less potentially damaging than the alternative. It is far from ideal but what situation in which children are protected from the choices of their parents is ideal?
To return the question of what benefit to anyone is it to protect the right of individuals to make ignorant fact free decisions and put themselves their children and society directly in harms way?
Is there a practical benefit or is just the vibe?
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because of people like VD & AaronJohns1.
The rates are dropping for no good (or even bad) reason. That is the key point.
The rates are dropping because incorrect information has been allowed to spread. I don't remember seeing a single TV commercial, newspaper ad, billboard etc... advocating vaccination. Sure, there are pamphlets and posters in medical institutions, but that's about it. Surely, if we are serious about improving vaccination rates, a public awareness campaign would be a better alternative to mandatory vaccination.
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
it's beneficial to pretty much everyone and far less potentially damaging than the alternative. It is far from ideal but what situation in which children are protected from the choices of their parents is ideal?
To return the question of what benefit to anyone is it to protect the right of individuals to make ignorant fact free decisions and put themselves their children and society directly in harms way?
Is there a practical benefit or is just the vibe?
Yes, there are practical benefits of not living in an Orwellian Dystopia.
Is the bitter irony in all this, thanks to Wakefield, that even if 1 in 1 million MMR vaccinations causes autism, the measles virus causes an encephalitis and neurological scarring in roughly 1:1000 people. Even if it was a case of two evils (which it isn’t), it’s a thousandfold safer to use the vaccine than risk the virus.
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
it's beneficial to pretty much everyone and far less potentially damaging than the alternative. It is far from ideal but what situation in which children are protected from the choices of their parents is ideal?
To return the question of what benefit to anyone is it to protect the right of individuals to make ignorant fact free decisions and put themselves their children and society directly in harms way?
Is there a practical benefit or is just the vibe?
Yes, there are practical benefits of not living in an Orwellian Dystopia.
i must have missed the book about the people aren't allowed to contract and spread preventable diseases dystopia. I'm more familiar with his works where people are forced to make choices based on bullshit and manipulative lies and forced to live in fearful propaganda fantasies and everything is all ■■■■■■ up as a result.
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because of people like VD & AaronJohns1.
The rates are dropping for no good (or even bad) reason. That is the key point.
The rates are dropping because incorrect information has been allowed to spread. I don't remember seeing a single TV commercial, newspaper ad, billboard etc... advocating vaccination. Sure, there are pamphlets and posters in medical institutions, but that's about it. Surely, if we are serious about improving vaccination rates, a public awareness campaign would be a better alternative to mandatory vaccination.
I can't remember a single ad saying "hey kids! Don't die!! " Wouldn't it be far easier to do that than have all these funerals & burials etc after people have decided to die?
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because of people like VD & AaronJohns1.
The rates are dropping for no good (or even bad) reason. That is the key point.
The rates are dropping because incorrect information has been allowed to spread. I don't remember seeing a single TV commercial, newspaper ad, billboard etc... advocating vaccination. Sure, there are pamphlets and posters in medical institutions, but that's about it. Surely, if we are serious about improving vaccination rates, a public awareness campaign would be a better alternative to mandatory vaccination.
I can't remember a single ad saying "hey kids! Don't die!! " Wouldn't it be far easier to do that than have all these funerals & burials etc after people have decided to die?
While we have a very large proportion of the community who are naive enough to get taken in by swindlers, delusion and snake oil salesmen so easily I'm afraid it is necessary for the community's health that an authoritative decision be made for them.
Do you propose that the military or police get involved to round-up and forcibly vaccinate dissenters, or do you think it's best we just marginalise those who disagree through punitive measures and sanctions?
There is a well-defined process for dealing with those parents who neglect or abuse their kids (though it needs to be better-funded, of course). Child protective services, neglect and endangerment charges, etc etc. Refusal to vaccinate is no different to refusal to feed or care for your kids properly, and would come under the same umbrella.
Voluntary vaccination has been a huge success since the 1920s. Why do we need to introduce draconian laws now? Do you really think putting children into state care because their parents don't believe in vaccinating them is beneficial to anyone?
Because of people like VD & AaronJohns1.
The rates are dropping for no good (or even bad) reason. That is the key point.
The rates are dropping because incorrect information has been allowed to spread. I don't remember seeing a single TV commercial, newspaper ad, billboard etc... advocating vaccination. Sure, there are pamphlets and posters in medical institutions, but that's about it. Surely, if we are serious about improving vaccination rates, a public awareness campaign would be a better alternative to mandatory vaccination.
I can't remember a single ad saying "hey kids! Don't die!! " Wouldn't it be far easier to do that than have all these funerals & burials etc after people have decided to die?
I'm not sure what you're point is.
"Your"
If it comes down to an information war, the people who listen to random internet crackpots above all else are not going to be swayed by pesky factual information put out by that pesky government.
These are, after all, people who put listening to random internet crackpots "because of THE GOVERNMENT, MAN" ahead on their priorities list of "making sure my child doesn't die or carry a disease that kills". Facts won't start influencing them now, IMHO.
and that's the bit that annoys me. Never mind the fact that vaccines actually work and saves countless lives, because it's a government conspiracy they won't go near it. Ideology to the extreme.
and that's the bit that annoys me. Never mind the fact that vaccines actually work and saves countless lives, because it's a government conspiracy they won't go near it. Ideology to the extreme.
It's part of a wider problem that should be dealt with early on in school. A great proportion of people think that any facts are are determined to be real by whether or not they get a fuzzy feeling about them. If we taught everyone to use reason properly though things like advertisements and elections would be vastly different.
and that's the bit that annoys me. Never mind the fact that vaccines actually work and saves countless lives, because it's a government conspiracy they won't go near it. Ideology to the extreme.
It's part of a wider problem that should be dealt with early on in school. A great proportion of people think that any facts are are determined to be real by whether or not they get a fuzzy feeling about them. If we taught everyone to use reason properly though things like advertisements and elections would be vastly different.
which is in direct opposition to why public schooling exists anx will never happen so we'll just have to force people to make smart decisions on a piece meal basis and pretend we respect freedom of choice when intelligence is not required.
I thought a nurse would know that prevention is better than cure? obviously not top of the vaccination course.
She probably does, it was me asking the question that I came up with half way through creating the post.
She had you summed up pretty well though.
And why do you still post here?
I’m sorry, and I mean that sincerely, but this thread should SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ALL OF YOU. Hey I, after much research, decided to vaccinate my kids. but all I see here is INCREDIBLE fanaticism and no science cmon guys do we really have a place to comment. Seriously Drs if you have commented in this thread please state your profession and your field so that we can get some reputable comments. You all know that vaccs is a highly specialised area. And VERY important! All I’m asking is that we increase the science to DOGMA!! ratio that appears in the comments. As it stands this appears as a Pres Kennedy anti vax family movement and we all know where he ended up
