Didn't know where to raise this discussion with the Politics thread gone.
I want to say, that my question to everyone is not politically minded. I don't care for who promised what and the political motivations of Liberal or Labor in relation to the East West link. It is purely a question about infrastructure in Melbourne.
I didn't read too much into the East West link itself but thought if it helps traffic flow in any way easing the issue out in the east, then great. Having holidayed in Sydney recently we used their tunnels quite a bit and skipped driving through parts of the city itself on a number of occasions which I thought was amazing. I think their traffic problems are stuffed as it is, but thought, wow, these tunnels are impressive and imagine Sydney didn't have these!?
So did people like the idea of the East West link? (Please leave your political biases out of this - I'm asking honestly and would love it if the thread was not gurged). What do people think are the solutions? I believe a mixture of investing in our roads and public transport are a must, and only addressing one would not solve our problems. This being the case, apart from the East West link option - which new roads infrastructure works would be most beneficial for us now? Which public transport? Rail etc?
The underground train link from the north of the city to the south will be great for people living inner city, but overall it will do nothing to help industry and transport for the state.
Correct will help people get to work. That’s about it.
It’s hard to really get a grip of what the purpose of the tunnel is from the MM authority’s website (“unlocking the city loop” etc) but I think the point is that the city loop is at capacity, and the only way to get more trains and more lines into Melbourne’s rail system is to build a new railway through the CBD.
I remember reading a while ago that an extension of the Ring Road to Eastlink was near on impossible because of the terrain or green-wedge zoning or something around the Warrandyte area, and the alternative (buying up a lot of private property) would put out way too many people. Not sure if that holds true, but certainly makes sense.
The underground train link from the north of the city to the south will be great for people living inner city, but overall it will do nothing to help industry and transport for the state.
Very few people get on at inner city stops. Within about 10-15km of the city you've got a pretty good tram coverage.
Trains are basically packed from places like Box Hill in - they're used way more by suburbanites, as far as the train lines go anyway.
If they’re wanting to build a new freeway extension then they should be spending it on the greensborough end of the western ring road. Currently a road to nowhere.
Didn't know where to raise this discussion with the Politics thread gone.
I want to say, that my question to everyone is not politically minded. I don't care for who promised what and the political motivations of Liberal or Labor in relation to the East West link. It is purely a question about infrastructure in Melbourne.
I didn't read too much into the East West link itself but thought if it helps traffic flow in any way easing the issue out in the east, then great. Having holidayed in Sydney recently we used their tunnels quite a bit and skipped driving through parts of the city itself on a number of occasions which I thought was amazing. I think their traffic problems are stuffed as it is, but thought, wow, these tunnels are impressive and imagine Sydney didn't have these!?
So did people like the idea of the East West link? (Please leave your political biases out of this - I'm asking honestly and would love it if the thread was not gurged). What do people think are the solutions? I believe a mixture of investing in our roads and public transport are a must, and only addressing one would not solve our problems. This being the case, apart from the East West link option - which new roads infrastructure works would be most beneficial for us now? Which public transport? Rail etc?
I'd love to know peoples thoughts.
Most people (I’d say almost everyone) would say it would be nice and has to happen eventually but most people (not quite as big a majority) would say other things should happen first.
Personally
1 Eastern to ring road (it’s about 12km, through suburbs, and would basically complete the loop from Franga to Geelong - most obvious of obvious roads to build)
2 Airport rail link
3 Duplicate or update the city loop, takes about 15 minutes for a train to go about 5km through the city
4 Tunnel
And the railway crossings need to keep happening as well, Springvale Rd through Nunas is about 3289235892359 better these days.
There's also the little issue of a no-competition clause with CityLink. Build the airport line and you have to fork out a ■■■■ load of compo to them.
Wow.
Politicians really really really suck at making public policy, don’t they?
The underground train link from the north of the city to the south will be great for people living inner city, but overall it will do nothing to help industry and transport for the state.
Correct will help people get to work. That’s about it.
The underground train link from the north of the city to the south will be great for people living inner city, but overall it will do nothing to help industry and transport for the state.
Aren’t they re making swanston st and putting a river through it? Seems they are re doing that particular road every other year. Hope the country folk are happy with their taxes being spent there
Now I don’t have a political bone in my body and am completely without bias.
However the reported $339 million bucks was the amount already paid to the EastWest consortium and not recoverable, Daniel Bomber Andrews has paid the Consortium partners $1 for the assets and business of the Consortium valued at $100 million. Good outcome given the shitfight that was left them by the liberals.
Now at that said I was not against more tunnels and more roads, as they will get built one day as will a rail link to the Airport. I recall back over 45 years ago when the Tulla freeway was built, and when there was a toll on the westgate bridge. Things move on, and the sooner you build it the better it is on all accounts.
Just get on with something Daniel ! As Teddy and Dennis spent four years doing nothing .
I don't claim to be an engineering expert but DanDanHe'sOurMan said today that the Swanson St Rail Tunnel will be just 10 metres under the road .... so just how is it going to go under the Yarra & CityLink Tunnels at the Southern end without a steep steep steep tunnel incline?
I thought it was just 10 metres through the city. The main reason is that is means it runs above the city loop rather than below, saving heaps of $$$.
It’s 10m where it will cross the existing city loop at Latrobe st, but it will need to be deeper to go under the Yarra. They can either go 40m+ deep which is expensive but avoids most of the issues that the citylink tunnels were/are plagued with, or they can build it much shallower (either just above or below citylink) which should be much cheaper but presents many more engineering challenges.
IIRC the deep tunnel option would make it 50m below Flinders st station, so prepare to use a lot of escalators to change trains!
I don't claim to be an engineering expert but DanDanHe'sOurMan said today that the Swanson St Rail Tunnel will be just 10 metres under the road .... so just how is it going to go under the Yarra & CityLink Tunnels at the Southern end without a steep steep steep tunnel incline?
I thought it was just 10 metres through the city. The main reason is that is means it runs above the city loop rather than below, saving heaps of $$$.
I’m sure this metro rail link will be useful. I confess to failing to see it as a game changer in any meaningful way, though. But what would i know of such things as cost-benefit analysis? Nothing really. It did surprise me to read that the cost benefit and business case has not yet been completed though!
And i did have some knowledge of how much of a nightmare water-sealing the Domain and Burnley tunnels were. That proved a massive problem*. reading that the rail link will pass over the tunnels doesnt fill me with confidence re unintended consequences. This thing could go way way over budget through no fault of anyone in particular.
*(Afaik, we are still pumping clean water down to the tunnels to “stabilise” the water table around the tunnels)
There's also the little issue of a no-competition clause with CityLink. Build the airport line and you have to fork out a ■■■■ load of compo to them.
Not actually true. Plus, there is no single CityLink agreement as usually claimed, with various modifications over time (including in the past year) where it hasn’t been seen as as issue by either party.