Welcome to Essendon - Caz & Cuz

Hird was pushed no question. However his resolve had obviously waned and his I confidence in turning the team around (otherwise "pushing" would have been met with steely resolve). He agreed for the benefit of the club, players, all round unity he would resign as long as the board agreed to pay him out.

It’s pretty obvious surely.

I have issues with your second sentence.
I reckon, and it’s purely an I reckon mind, that if you asked Hird whether his resolve and confidence in turning the team around had waned, in private company he’d tell you, ‘fark, no.’

Wonder what the answer would have been had you asked the players the exact same question

Wonder what Little’s wife would say if you asked whether Little cross-dressed.

Lolz…weird response.

I was actually asking a serious question.

No, you were casting aspersions based on nothing with no personal stake.
Easy, cost-free, and fun if you have an imagination.

No. I was asking a question based on what has been said over the year James himself, by Goddard, and again on Thursday night by Heppell.

May be right…may be wrong, but it certainly deserves consideration.

I wonder how much Paul was paid by the AFL to sack Hird.
Not my opinion, of course, but we must consider it.

If true you should do more than consider it

But hey…it’s obvious you’re not willing for a discussion that doesn’t fit with whatever you believe happened.

I’m always willing to discuss things honestly.
If you think Hird lost the players then say so. Say, ‘I think Hird lost the players.’
I like you, Darli. And I think you’re better than this ‘I wonder…’ crap.

I don’t know what happened.
I farking know it’s not what’s being said though.
Because I’m not farking four.

I don’t know if Hird lost the players…I don’t know what happened.

But surely, given what’s been said throughout the year it has to be a least a consideration.

My personal thoughts are that it was many things, a perfect storm if you like. And it broke my heart.

Again, given the level of corruption we’ve seen from the AFL and Essendon’s continued acquiescence to them, we must consider that each board member got a big fat payout for sacking Hird.

I mean, I don’t know that happened. Maybe it didn’t and it would be sad if it did.
But you must accept it’s equally as likely a proposition as yours.

And again i stress I take exactly as much ownership of it as you have.

Hird was pushed no question. However his resolve had obviously waned and his I confidence in turning the team around (otherwise "pushing" would have been met with steely resolve). He agreed for the benefit of the club, players, all round unity he would resign as long as the board agreed to pay him out.

It’s pretty obvious surely.

I have issues with your second sentence.
I reckon, and it’s purely an I reckon mind, that if you asked Hird whether his resolve and confidence in turning the team around had waned, in private company he’d tell you, ‘fark, no.’

Wonder what the answer would have been had you asked the players the exact same question

Wonder what Little’s wife would say if you asked whether Little cross-dressed.

Lolz…weird response.

I was actually asking a serious question.

No, you were casting aspersions based on nothing with no personal stake.
Easy, cost-free, and fun if you have an imagination.

No. I was asking a question based on what has been said over the year James himself, by Goddard, and again on Thursday night by Heppell.

May be right…may be wrong, but it certainly deserves consideration.

I wonder how much Paul was paid by the AFL to sack Hird.
Not my opinion, of course, but we must consider it.

If true you should do more than consider it

But hey…it’s obvious you’re not willing for a discussion that doesn’t fit with whatever you believe happened.

I’m always willing to discuss things honestly.
If you think Hird lost the players then say so. Say, ‘I think Hird lost the players.’
I like you, Darli. And I think you’re better than this ‘I wonder…’ crap.

I don’t know what happened.
I farking know it’s not what’s being said though.
Because I’m not farking four.

I don’t know if Hird lost the players…I don’t know what happened.

But surely, given what’s been said throughout the year it has to be a least a consideration.

My personal thoughts are that it was many things, a perfect storm if you like. And it broke my heart.

Again, given the level of corruption we’ve seen from the AFL and Essendon’s continued acquiescence to them, we must consider that each board member got a big fat payout for sacking Hird.

I mean, I don’t know that happened. Maybe it didn’t and it would be sad if it did.
But you must accept it’s equally as likely a proposition as yours.

And again i stress I take exactly as much ownership of it as you have.

No actually I don’t accept its a likely proposition at all, but as I said, you don’t want a discussion, you only want to make snarky comments.

That’s fine…I enjoy the odd snarky comment, but don’t try and dress it up as anything else.

Hird was pushed no question. However his resolve had obviously waned and his I confidence in turning the team around (otherwise "pushing" would have been met with steely resolve). He agreed for the benefit of the club, players, all round unity he would resign as long as the board agreed to pay him out.

It’s pretty obvious surely.

I have issues with your second sentence.
I reckon, and it’s purely an I reckon mind, that if you asked Hird whether his resolve and confidence in turning the team around had waned, in private company he’d tell you, ‘fark, no.’

Wonder what the answer would have been had you asked the players the exact same question

Wonder what Little’s wife would say if you asked whether Little cross-dressed.

Lolz…weird response.

I was actually asking a serious question.

No, you were casting aspersions based on nothing with no personal stake.
Easy, cost-free, and fun if you have an imagination.

No. I was asking a question based on what has been said over the year James himself, by Goddard, and again on Thursday night by Heppell.

May be right…may be wrong, but it certainly deserves consideration.

I wonder how much Paul was paid by the AFL to sack Hird.
Not my opinion, of course, but we must consider it.

If true you should do more than consider it

But hey…it’s obvious you’re not willing for a discussion that doesn’t fit with whatever you believe happened.

I’m always willing to discuss things honestly.
If you think Hird lost the players then say so. Say, ‘I think Hird lost the players.’
I like you, Darli. And I think you’re better than this ‘I wonder…’ crap.

I don’t know what happened.
I farking know it’s not what’s being said though.
Because I’m not farking four.

I don’t know if Hird lost the players…I don’t know what happened.

But surely, given what’s been said throughout the year it has to be a least a consideration.

My personal thoughts are that it was many things, a perfect storm if you like. And it broke my heart.

Again, given the level of corruption we’ve seen from the AFL and Essendon’s continued acquiescence to them, we must consider that each board member got a big fat payout for sacking Hird.

I mean, I don’t know that happened. Maybe it didn’t and it would be sad if it did.
But you must accept it’s equally as likely a proposition as yours.

And again i stress I take exactly as much ownership of it as you have.

No actually I don’t accept its a likely proposition at all, but as I said, you don’t want a discussion, you only want to make snarky comments.

That’s fine…I enjoy the odd snarky comment, but don’t try and dress it up as anything else.

I’m sorry.
Sometimes my snark can get in the way of my message.
Which is take ownership of your comments.
If you believe it, say so.
Don’t hide behind ‘I wonder…’
I can wonder lots of things.
But I don’t post them to back up my position.

Or do, and I’ll wonder about the cross-dressing CEO and his kick-back taking board.

I’m talking about you, here.
Be real or don’t bother.

Okay, I'll throw this further than Paul. To the connected. Reboot, Riolio, anyone else who 'hears things' and doesn't understand people's scepticism.

Do you think James felt he had nothing more to offer as coach of Essendon?
Do you believe it was James’ preference to not be coach of Essendon?
Do you believe that by accepting his resignation you were just complying with what James wanted?

Give me three yes’s and I swear I’ll take your word for it.

But like a lot of other people here, I’m not going to cop statements framed just so.
Or, you know, don’t.
But if not then stop with the whole ‘I can’t understand it…’ garbage.

I’m not connected with anyone at the club, but I’m connected enough with common sense to know that uour questions show that you have no idea.

No, I don’t think that James Hird felt he had nothing more to offer as coach of Essendon. But I do think that he realised that the interests of the club might be better served if he offered to resign. And I also think that just maybe he might have had some doubts about whether he really was as good a coach as he hoped he was.

Do I believe it was James’ preference not to be coach of Essendon? See previous answer, because it’s at bottom the same question.

Do I believe that by accepting, etc? Well, I didn’t accept anybody’s resignation, but if I had been on the Board I would have tried to look at the situation as objectively as I could, and the question I would have asked myself would have been what was in the best interests of the club. I would have thought about loyalty to James Hird, I would have thought about the true extent of his responsibility for the mess we were in, and I would have thought about how much the club owed him for everything he’s given it, but I would still have asked that fundamental question about the best interests of the club. And I would have taken into account the fact that for a large part of this season James Hird looked as if he had run out of ideas about how to turn around the on-field performance. And I would have accepted James Hird’s offer to resign.

So Shelton,you are of the opinion that Hird had run out of ideas on how to turn the on-field performance around.
Can you tell me when you first formed this opinion? For example, were you of this opinion in his previous coaching year when he had the team second on the ladder after 16 rounds. And were you of this opinion earlier this year when we beat the reigning premiers Hawthorn? Or have you only come to this conclusion after the WADA appeal and crippling injuries have significently damaged the players performance?
And are you of the opinion that Egan has provided these “ideas”?

No apology necessary Wim, as I said I don’t mind

I can’t take a strong position simply because I don’t know enough. I’m simply throwing stuff out there because I believe the truth lies somewhere buried in all of it.

FWIW I do believe James Hird can coach, I think he can actually be a very good coach. So much has gotten in the way and perhaps, right now, with this group of players, it just wasn’t working.

No apology necessary Wim, as I said I don't mind

I can’t take a strong position simply because I don’t know enough. I’m simply throwing stuff out there because I believe the truth lies somewhere buried in all of it.

FWIW I do believe James Hird can coach, I think he can actually be a very good coach. So much has gotten in the way and perhaps, right now, with this group of players, it just wasn’t working.

Better.
As a half-arsed counterpoint, I’ll suggest that perhaps it was something else.
I’ll telll you something for free though, we’ll never know now.

I don’t hear much, almost nothing. But again I’ll repeat what I’ve said before. At his press conference I thought Hird looked a mixture of disappointed and relieved that this was over.

And so, based on that assumption…

I do believe that he no longer felt like he could coach this football team.

I do believe he offered his resignation

I do believe the board complied in accepting it.

And if you read between the lines of what players have been saying since he left, I’d say they mostly approved of it to.

I get this feeling like people see Hird as this rock on which everything else around the club should be built. Like he wasn’t expendable or even able to fail but everyone else around him should be questioned or even removed without cause.

after lengthy discussions between James, Xavier and Paul over the course of a month on what was best for the players and the club moving forward Paul eventually provisionally accepted James’ offer to resign - which the Board then ratified. There was never a Board vote to sack James, the board voted on the decision to ratify the acceptance of James' resignation.

And there it is.

Little and Campbell white-anted Hird (insert your own comments about motives etc.) and the rest of the board didn’t really get a chance to do anything about it.

I don't hear much, almost nothing. But again I'll repeat what I've said before. At his press conference I thought Hird looked a mixture of disappointed and relieved that this was over.

And so, based on that assumption…

I do believe that he no longer felt like he could coach this football team.

I do believe he offered his resignation

I do believe the board complied in accepting it.

And if you read between the lines of what players have been saying since he left, I’d say they mostly approved of it to.

I get this feeling like people see Hird as this rock on which everything else around the club should be built. Like he wasn’t expendable or even able to fail but everyone else around him should be questioned or even removed without cause.

Man, really?

I believe he felt he could no longer coach this football team on the day of the press conference, too.
I absolutely believe he offered his resignation. I believe it was a standing offer from the day he was appointed, although not based on whether he appealed a court case the EFC jumped on board.
I absolutely believe the board ‘complied’ in accepting it.

None of that is what I asked.
None of it.

Hird was pushed no question. However his resolve had obviously waned and his I confidence in turning the team around (otherwise "pushing" would have been met with steely resolve). He agreed for the benefit of the club, players, all round unity he would resign as long as the board agreed to pay him out.

It’s pretty obvious surely.

I have issues with your second sentence.
I reckon, and it’s purely an I reckon mind, that if you asked Hird whether his resolve and confidence in turning the team around had waned, in private company he’d tell you, ‘fark, no.’

Wonder what the answer would have been had you asked the players the exact same question

Wonder what Little’s wife would say if you asked whether Little cross-dressed.

Lolz…weird response.

I was actually asking a serious question.

No, you were casting aspersions based on nothing with no personal stake.
Easy, cost-free, and fun if you have an imagination.

No. I was asking a question based on what has been said over the year James himself, by Goddard, and again on Thursday night by Heppell.

May be right…may be wrong, but it certainly deserves consideration.

I wonder how much Paul was paid by the AFL to sack Hird.
Not my opinion, of course, but we must consider it.

If true you should do more than consider it

But hey…it’s obvious you’re not willing for a discussion that doesn’t fit with whatever you believe happened.

So you only think he looked past it at the presser? Thought he looked fried for weeks.

And again, given how seemingly AOK the players are with the decision, how does that square with the view that he should’ve been kept and supported until … when?

So you only think he looked past it at the presser? Thought he looked fried for weeks.

And again, given how seemingly AOK the players are with the decision, how does that square with the view that he should’ve been kept and supported until … when?

Looked fried for two weeks before the press conference.
What’s the timeline again?

And screw this strawman ‘should have been kept forever no matter what.’
No-one’s saying that. No-one.

Should have seen out his contract? Sure.
Should have been given a chance to coach without the WADA sword of Damocles? Of farking course.
Should have kept one single skerrick of dignity? Would have been nice.

Edit: But you know what? All of that is peripheral.
It’s a discussion for another thread and you’ve sucked me into it here.

This thread, is about the board, and their involvement, and what happened, and what is absolute farking bullshit being fed to the plebs and what isn’t. It’s about weasel words and dodging responsibility.

Swore I saw Hird at his own press conference when he resigned.

How can any of you claim to know every part of the story?

So here’s where I really can’t understand some peoples point of view. You either accept Hird told the truth, or you call him a liar because you support him…?

Why do you persist in posting alternatives as absolutes when you know that reality is not that simple?

Either you are a board lackey or a complete imbecile? - See I can select alternatives as well - according to your logic you just HAVE to fall into one of those categories…

Okay, I'll throw this further than Paul. To the connected. Reboot, Riolio, anyone else who 'hears things' and doesn't understand people's scepticism.

Do you think James felt he had nothing more to offer as coach of Essendon?
Do you believe it was James’ preference to not be coach of Essendon?
Do you believe that by accepting his resignation you were just complying with what James wanted?

Give me three yes’s and I swear I’ll take your word for it.

But like a lot of other people here, I’m not going to cop statements framed just so.
Or, you know, don’t.
But if not then stop with the whole ‘I can’t understand it…’ garbage.

I’m not connected with anyone at the club, but I’m connected enough with common sense to know that uour questions show that you have no idea.

Mutual.
Why bother with the rest after that?

Ah, well. I should have realised it was pointless to try and reason with a closed mind.

Good job the thread has been gurged.

Sorry Reboot, I respect the hell out of your posting but you clearly haven't worked in HR.

I have been involved (unfortunately) in the ‘downsizing’ or around 1000 positions over my career and about 900 of them will be listed as ‘resignations’… when in reality about 20 were.

You sit an employee down (after not supporting them in their role for about 6 months) and tell them that they can ‘resign’, get a pay out and receive a good reference OR they can be fired, get no reference and get less payout. 99.9999999% of the time… they take the ‘resignation’ option.

So I’m sorry but it is not that I am calling anyone at the club liars (although they all have been lying to us for 3+ years now) BUT I know how these things work.

Step A: Support for Hird removed (evidence includes no BF last year, push for Thompson to stay, Little offering inducements to step down)
Step B: Make role tougher (evidence includes putting 3 ‘over managers’ above him to stifle all productivity, remove public support)
Step C: Plant seeds of doubt (evidence includes notable high profile EFC people ‘leaking’ about the lack of clean air with Hird around)
Step D: Move in for the Kill (wait for Hird to talk to you about what is best for the club, then politely tell him that you do not believe he is the best man for the job, that the club will never have clear air whilst he is there and that it would be best he leaves)
Step E: Make it look pretty (Allow Hird to tender his ‘resignation’ and spin the shit out it)

So I absolutely believe that Hird tendered his resignation, I have no doubt that it was him at the press conference speaking honestly from the heart and I have no doubt that he tried to make the best of a bad situation.

That does not mean that he wasn’t forced out of his position over the last 2 years through lies, manipulation and back room deals with the AFL, media and others.

Sacked, resigned, retrenched… whatever… Hird is gone because Little wanted him gone, the AFL wanted him gone and the AFL Media wanted him gone. Hird did not suddenly wake up one day and say “I do not want to coach the EFC anymore”

To add to this post, I cannot shake the feeling that the AFL told the club that if Hird was gone, they’d grease the wheels to make sure the Essendon “brand” (fark I hate the term) was reborn.

The AFL would do this via their accredited communication specialists, favourable media leaks, big time promotion of the new Sheedy blockbuster Farmers game, which would include co-operation with another club of course, helpful assistance with the appointment of a new coach, and a warm welcome back to the arms of the AFL family.

We’ll no longer be the pariahs of the game, we’ll be the prodigal sons.

Okay, I'll throw this further than Paul. To the connected. Reboot, Riolio, anyone else who 'hears things' and doesn't understand people's scepticism.

Do you think James felt he had nothing more to offer as coach of Essendon?
Do you believe it was James’ preference to not be coach of Essendon?
Do you believe that by accepting his resignation you were just complying with what James wanted?

Give me three yes’s and I swear I’ll take your word for it.

But like a lot of other people here, I’m not going to cop statements framed just so.
Or, you know, don’t.
But if not then stop with the whole ‘I can’t understand it…’ garbage.

I’m not connected with anyone at the club, but I’m connected enough with common sense to know that uour questions show that you have no idea.

Mutual.
Why bother with the rest after that?

Ah, well. I should have realised it was pointless to try and reason with a closed mind.

Good job the thread has been gurged.

S10, I’m not going to engage significantly with anyone who opens with ‘You’re a moron.’
You have a right to your opinion, but if you can’t accept that it colours everything you write after that then you truly are the moron.

Farking lol at the gurge, though.
Sorry for asking inconvenient questions.

Gets to close to the bone - gurge the thread

Don’t criticise the board wim, they’re beyond reproach.

Never once criticised them.