Who Should We Draft?

Football Discussion Trade week Duursma head in
1528

 

 

Cooney still has some good games left, perhaps.
Gwilt could not get a game at St Kilda
McKernan could not get a game at Adelaide
Giles could not get a game at GWS.
Three absolute spuds !
Let other Clubs recruit Brenton Payne and Tom Field, both have strong Bomber heritage. While Laverde, Langford and Long could be good, disappointed with the rest.

McKernan is a ROOKIE and is on the list as a backup to a small ruck stocks.  Nothing at all wrong with that selection.
 
Giles is a young developing ruckman in a side that didn't need him, hardly fair to say he is a spud..
Gwilt was selected under FA because we had limited draft picks and needed to use those on non-backman roles.  It was a smart idea to cover us as depth until we are back with full draft picks.
Strategically the Dons have done well this year while you are simply over-reacting without thinking.

GAGF
Facts are that those three spuds are now on our list and could not get games with teams lower down on the food scale than us. What the fark is strategic about recruiting guys who have not been good enough elsewhere. I would rather go for an 18 year old like Brenton Payne who is as athletic and bigger than Gwilt and see if he can develop along side Fletcher, than Gwilt who is past it.
And McKernan is a thug as well, and his lazy ■■■■ brother played for Norf which should ban him from being selected by the Dons !

 

By your logic Hawthorn shouldn't have picked up Gibson, Hale, Lake or Burgoyne

Sydney shouldn't have picked up Richards, Kennedy or McGlynn, Rhyce Shaw or Barry Hall as all of their clubs were lower at that point than Sydney were.

Sometimes guys are worth more to one club than another, and that has nothing to do with where they're placed on the ladder.

 

Hilarious tanty though.

1529

Hey Smack, remember the Brownlow in 96? Geez your brother was stiff. Who did win it that year anyway?

 

Every day Hirdy? Shut up already.

1530

Yeah sure Corey should have won a Brownlow and didn't because he was a thug as well. He played for Norf, so isn't worth a heap of turds.
Don't try and tell me that this McKernan is as good as that prick Ryder.
My point is that all you guys get excited by failures from other clubs. At least Goddard, Chapman and Cooney, actually have a achieved something, Gwilt, McKernan and Giles have shown nothing to me. I get more excited by new young blokes having a go.

What's Goddard achieved that Gwilt hasn't?

1 AA nod?

They played in the same finals, Goddard never won a B&F there (couple of placings).

1531

I'm impressed by Gwilt finishing top ten in the Saints b&f even though he couldn't get a game.

Doesn't say much for the rest of their list, though.

1532

 

Been a very successful trade/draft period despite the draft sanctions placed upon us and free hit Paddy effectively got to leave.
Cooney - pick 37. Will prove a bargain! A Grade.
Giles - pick 53. Very capable& durable ruck/fwd
Gwilt - free agent: Cost nothing, will be valuable.
McKenna - alt rookie. First rnd talent athletically
Langford - pick 17 (EFC rating 12best in draft)
Laverde - pick 20 (EFC rating; 8th best in draft)
Long - last rookie pick F/S: very talented
McKernan - rookie: AFL experienced, only 24, point to prove
With the exception of perhaps McKernan, and even he has huge upside given talls tend to hit their straps in late 20's, every other player picked up at first glance appears to have been selected for unders IMO.
Well done Dodoro.

Still not sure about the Cooney and Gwilt calls. Thought pick 37 and Steinberg would be better options than those two. Losing Ryder still hurts but I'm so excited by Langford, Laverde, Long and McKenna it makes up for it.

 

Pick 37 - james rose sydney

 

others available at that pick

- Jack Lonie small forward

- caleb Daniel - small mid

- clem smith - pick 61 small defender - byron pickett clone.....i thought that would have been marcus :)

 

i think pick 37 for cooney was pretty good value....if we had of got a lower pick from Port we may have used that in the draft.  ie if they traded player to saints for pick 21 and we got that & 17......could have got langford, laverde, goddard.........if only port paid up.

1533

Cooney still has some good games left, perhaps.
Gwilt could not get a game at St Kilda
McKernan could not get a game at Adelaide
Giles could not get a game at GWS.
Three absolute spuds !
Let other Clubs recruit Brenton Payne and Tom Field, both have strong Bomber heritage. While Laverde, Langford and Long could be good, disappointed with the rest.

Gwilt couldn't get a game at St Kilda? Seriously? He's been a regular for many years, hell he's pretty much been their #1 key defender for most of that. If they had a better list they would've kept him around, but when you're rubbish 28+yr olds are expendable if you have younger guys that can fill the role.

 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of McKernan but I understand the philosophy behind picking him, if not the actual selection.

 

Giles? C'mon, he was GWS's #1 ruck since inception until Mumford was signed. Mumford plays better as the sole ruck and isn't good up forward, so whilst his form wasn't as strong as it had been, the changing structure of the side was more what ousted Giles than anything else. Don't believe that GWS rarely using a genuine 2nd ruck was due to not wanting Mumford forward? Rory Lobb is an excellent developing ruck, but when he was brought in for his 2 games he played as a key forward solely, he didn't take a centre bounce once - wouldn't it make sense if you're selecting a genuine 2nd ruck to give that ruck (at worst) 20-30% ruck time? Mumford screws up their forward line so he's pretty much got to sit on the bench when not rucking, so unless he's injured or learns to be a more effective forward, Cameron will be forced to continue using that structure - 90% Mumford rucking, 10% chop-out. Secondly, who else were we going to get in the role as a ready-made replacement for Ryder? The other option was Lowden, who I suspect you also would've complained about having played 1 game for Hawthorn in 4, possibly 5, years at the club.

 

Why are you crying over Tom Fields? We've had ample opportunity to draft him and we didn't think he was good enough to draft and neither did anyone else. This season someone obviously did think he's had a good season, but who knows whether Dodoro and co shared that opinion. Great news for Tom, but again it wasn't like it was his first season available and we turned our noses up.

 

Brenton Payne is a forward, I have seen him play back and play solidly, but thinking he's going to develop alongside Fletcher is fairly optimistic. He isn't a ruck, so we weren't going to take him with our one pick anyway and he's ridiculously light (as light as Gregory) so he'd need a good 3-4 pre-seasons to bulk up to the level required to play KPB at AFL level. The club, I'm sure, will look at key backs and a couple of other areas that need work (speed, crumbing small forward) when we have more available picks next season.

 

Having tunnel vision over the nice story of drafting guys with noted links to the club got us Joel Reynolds and Jay Neagle, Dodoro had the chance to take Sam Dunell but took Dalgleish instead, that ultimately may not turn out any better than the Dunell pick, but we certainly haven't lost anything by missing out on Dunell.

1534

"By your logic Hawthorn shouldn't have picked up Gibson, Hale, Lake or Burgoyne"

 

 

Well Henry, I reckon all those blokes can play, but don't try and tell me that Gwilt, Giles and McKernan will be anywhere near them. 

 

And Dunlop, Brenton is still growing and he has the frame of his grand-dad who was a powerfully built bloke, and I really like what i saw with Tom Fields, so time will tell.   And while I may agree with you about Joel Reynolds, he did have a heavy load to carry, and I saw Jay Neagle rip a game apart against West Coast, so the kid could play. He had a bad run with injury and in the end the KFC bought him down !!

 

Suppose I am not a real fan of recycled players, and while I give champs like BJ, Coons and Chappy a bit more leeway, still these moves don't work every time.  Were there any recycled players in our 2000 team; John Barnes, maybe?, 1993, Chris Daniher ?  Tim Watson  ?

1535

"By your logic Hawthorn shouldn't have picked up Gibson, Hale, Lake or Burgoyne"

 

 

Well Henry, I reckon all those blokes can play, but don't try and tell me that Gwilt, Giles and McKernan will be anywhere near them. 

 

And Dunlop, Brenton is still growing and he has the frame of his grand-dad who was a powerfully built bloke, and I really like what i saw with Tom Fields, so time will tell.   And while I may agree with you about Joel Reynolds, he did have a heavy load to carry, and I saw Jay Neagle rip a game apart against West Coast, so the kid could play. He had a bad run with injury and in the end the KFC bought him down !!

 

Suppose I am not a real fan of recycled players, and while I give champs like BJ, Coons and Chappy a bit more leeway, still these moves don't work every time.  Were there any recycled players in our 2000 team; John Barnes, maybe?, 1993, Chris Daniher ?  Tim Watson  ?

Gwilt's career up to now pretty closely mirrors Gibson's up til he went to North. Undersized key backs who did plenty of good when they had decent match-ups, but got thrown around a bit by the really big blokes - and at times had to carry the can for their team's failings.

And Giles is just a workhorse, thrives on it. He doesn't have Hale's tricks, but he's a much better ruckman, and I've never seen him put in a bad one. Poor man's David Hille, maybe a touch better at the same age, lets hope he goes bananas like Hilley did at about this point in his career.

 

I don't think McKernan will kill it either. But he does make some sense, plugs a gap.

 

 

 

2000 we had Barnard, Barnes (sorta) and Wellman, all important players.

Denham was still on the list I think, as was Robran.

 
1993 we had Denham, and Dekka (he got a game didn't he???)
1536

Suppose I am not a real fan of recycled players, and while I give champs like BJ, Coons and Chappy a bit more leeway, still these moves don't work every time.

One thing to bear in mind Bacchus when you consider the recycled guys coming in, is Dodoro is on record that when the sanctions were handed down they pretty much tossed out their list/draft plan and had to start again from scratch. The recycled guys are a trade-off to keep the list relatively strong, knowing you're basically going to have to keep the list in stasis for 2 years with minimal picks to work with.

1537

We could also be seeing a strategic shift in how we bring players into the team. If previously we would bring a young player in after 1-2 years, we may now be aiming to bring them in after a bit more strength and conditioning development. The game is at a point that MOST under 20 year olds won’t be able to reliably contribute. You carry the burden of the week in week out slog with mature bodies and give the young guys a taste so they know where they need to get to. The calculation would be that a mature body is more useful on the field to the team than a twig with upside. But to give that talented twig time to fill out, you need a mature placeholder, hence the recycled players of late.

1538

We could also be seeing a strategic shift in how we bring players into the team. If previously we would bring a young player in after 1-2 years, we may now be aiming to bring them in after a bit more strength and conditioning development. The game is at a point that MOST under 20 year olds won't be able to reliably contribute. You carry the burden of the week in week out slog with mature bodies and give the young guys a taste so they know where they need to get to. The calculation would be that a mature body is more useful on the field to the team than a twig with upside. But to give that talented twig time to fill out, you need a mature placeholder, hence the recycled players of late.

 

Yeah, I agree. I think things will trend were the tall a player is, the more likely he'll be moving around in his mid-20's, rather than developed and retained. It will be a game of strategic musical chairs, with semi-mature players traded to fill needs.

1539

Essendon is working out an American recruit today who tested at the US combine this year. 
Highlights reel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg8WihsSa80
 

1540

It'll be very interesting to see how our list management strategy changes next year once we have proper draft picks again.  How much has our recent emphasis on free agency and picking up recycleds been mandated by our lack of alternatives?  Given we've been pretty conservative with delistings over the last couple of years (so much that there could easily be 6-8 main list changes coming up at the end of next season), will we look to draft deep into the late rounds or will we bring in more recycleds?  How will that affect the gametime/development of our young blokes?  And given that quality free agents are generally towards the end of their careers, how will that affect our age profile?  Can a club under the current rules sustain a high-quality list through continual topping up?  If a club tries, what will the strategy do to its age profile and ability to attract/develop young talent?  t's all very much up in the air, given how new the rules are.

 

No secret I'm generally more in favour of drafting rather than poaching/recycling to build a list, though there is of course a place for both and a large part of my preference is based less on actual rational analysis and more on the fact that I hate cheering for players I despised at their old team!  

1541

Big unit!   Kicking style awkward (to be expected), as per Mike Pyke.

 

Can we take another alternative talent rookie still now?

1542

 

"By your logic Hawthorn shouldn't have picked up Gibson, Hale, Lake or Burgoyne"

 

 

Well Henry, I reckon all those blokes can play, but don't try and tell me that Gwilt, Giles and McKernan will be anywhere near them. 

 

And Dunlop, Brenton is still growing and he has the frame of his grand-dad who was a powerfully built bloke, and I really like what i saw with Tom Fields, so time will tell.   And while I may agree with you about Joel Reynolds, he did have a heavy load to carry, and I saw Jay Neagle rip a game apart against West Coast, so the kid could play. He had a bad run with injury and in the end the KFC bought him down !!

 

Suppose I am not a real fan of recycled players, and while I give champs like BJ, Coons and Chappy a bit more leeway, still these moves don't work every time.  Were there any recycled players in our 2000 team; John Barnes, maybe?, 1993, Chris Daniher ?  Tim Watson  ?

Gwilt's career up to now pretty closely mirrors Gibson's up til he went to North. Undersized key backs who did plenty of good when they had decent match-ups, but got thrown around a bit by the really big blokes - and at times had to carry the can for their team's failings.

And Giles is just a workhorse, thrives on it. He doesn't have Hale's tricks, but he's a much better ruckman, and I've never seen him put in a bad one. Poor man's David Hille, maybe a touch better at the same age, lets hope he goes bananas like Hilley did at about this point in his career.

 

I don't think McKernan will kill it either. But he does make some sense, plugs a gap.

 

 

 

2000 we had Barnard, Barnes (sorta) and Wellman, all important players.

Denham was still on the list I think, as was Robran.

 
1993 we had Denham, and Dekka (he got a game didn't he???)

 

2000 we had prior not getting a game...pretty good depth back then.

1543

Essendon is working out an American recruit today who tested at the US combine this year. 
Highlights reel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg8WihsSa80
 

 

Nice athlete. Stiff as Virgil from Thunderbirds. 

1544

Big unit!   Kicking style awkward (to be expected), as per Mike Pyke.

 

Can we take another alternative talent rookie still now?

Pretty sure we can take another two.

 

Edit: and personal opinion, we might as well do it. If we can afford the cost, I don't understand why we wouldn't have a full rookie B list the entire time.

1545

Essendon is working out an American recruit today who tested at the US combine this year. 
Highlights reel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg8WihsSa80
 

Excellent. I was hoping we'd pick up Padraig Lucey given our lack of rucks and getting a development ruck via rookie B makes a lot of sense to me. Little downside if it fails, plenty of upside if it comes off.

 

Mason Cox and Marvin Baynham were the big prospects out of the US combine - surprised nobody has taken Baynham yet given his combine performance. Never heard of Alexander before today, but he's a serious athlete - played soccer (as goalkeeper) and baseball at college.

 

Can we take another alternative talent rookie still now?

Yes and no. Some Rookie B guys have to be signed by October 31 (alternative talent or 3 year rule guys), the exception is Internationals (Irish guys probably excluded) whilst I can't find a set deadline anywhere in the rules, I do know you can sign them until Christmas - Eric Wallace originally signed with North on December 20, 2012.

1546

Would I be right in saying Lachie Keeffe (Collingwood) and Zac Smith (GC ruckman) were soccer goalkeepers prior to playing footy?

1547

Would I be right in saying Lachie Keeffe (Collingwood) and Zac Smith (GC ruckman) were soccer goalkeepers prior to playing footy?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/zac-smith-set-to-be-goalkeeper-for-international-rules-series/story-e6frf9jf-1226174392148

 

article says smith had soccer background but not kept prior to international rules....so i guess no for him, if we can believe whats written in the papers