Oh. Rookie list cloggers.
Umm, who cares? ;) (please don't turn this into a flamewar, you angry man).
Not really fussed, if the club still sees them as a backup option (Dell) or some development left (Stein), and we're missing out on the last rookie pick or two...meh. I think overall we've done well clearing the decks on the main list and getting the best guys who've slipped through the gaps, that's the downside.
Sniper.
Yeah, don't undervalue the rookie list. It's been a great source of both top up players and diamonds in the rough for us. But the discussion was more about dropping Van Unen or Gregory onto the rookie list. I don't see the point of this practice, and it's been proved to be unsuccessful time and time again.
And if we didn't have Steinberg and Peeto needlessly taking up a spot this year, we might have been able to draft a mature ruckman who could have actually played. The rookie list can still have cloggers.
Oh. Rookie list cloggers.
Umm, who cares? ;) (please don't turn this into a flamewar, you angry man).
Not really fussed, if the club still sees them as a backup option (Dell) or some development left (Stein), and we're missing out on the last rookie pick or two...meh. I think overall we've done well clearing the decks on the main list and getting the best guys who've slipped through the gaps, that's the downside.
Sniper.
Yeah, don't undervalue the rookie list. It's been a great source of both top up players and diamonds in the rough for us. But the discussion was more about dropping Van Unen or Gregory onto the rookie list. I don't see the point of this practice, and it's been proved to be unsuccessful time and time again.
And if we didn't have Steinberg and Peeto needlessly taking up a spot this year, we might have been able to draft a mature ruckman who could have actually played. The rookie list can still have cloggers.
But yeah, not a big deal.
We drafted Thurlow? Are you telling me we knew there was a better ruckman and decided we'd give everyone else a go at finding him and draft Thurlow instead?
Oh. Rookie list cloggers.
Umm, who cares? ;) (please don't turn this into a flamewar, you angry man).
Not really fussed, if the club still sees them as a backup option (Dell) or some development left (Stein), and we're missing out on the last rookie pick or two...meh. I think overall we've done well clearing the decks on the main list and getting the best guys who've slipped through the gaps, that's the downside.
Sniper.
Yeah, don't undervalue the rookie list. It's been a great source of both top up players and diamonds in the rough for us. But the discussion was more about dropping Van Unen or Gregory onto the rookie list. I don't see the point of this practice, and it's been proved to be unsuccessful time and time again.
And if we didn't have Steinberg and Peeto needlessly taking up a spot this year, we might have been able to draft a mature ruckman who could have actually played. The rookie list can still have cloggers.
But yeah, not a big deal.
We drafted Thurlow? Are you telling me we knew there was a better ruckman and decided we'd give everyone else a go at finding him and draft Thurlow instead?
We probably needed two ruckman, one to develop, and one who could play seniors if needed. (i want to say Darren Jolly, but I don't want to say Darren Jolly) I'm not really sure which one they saw Thurlow as. I'm assuming they thought he'd be able to step up, but weren't really expecting that to be in rounds 3 & 4.
But considering how big a hole there was/is in our ruck stocks - and the fact we just made Carlisle ruck against Shrek - just picking Thurlow hasn't really been a win at this point.
I just really really really really think it's too early to comment on this but I'm in the thread so:
- I'll start on the obvious. Surprised it hasn't been said but this is Dell's 3rd and final year on the rookie list no matter what. Upgrade or cut. I'd upgrade, obviously, but it's just as obvious he's more likely to be delisted. I also think if he is to be upgraded he needs to play seniors this year and show what he can do to get the nod and I can't see that happening.
- Gregory didn't do much for me when I've seen it but obviously the big blokes take time. Also don't be sucked in to thinking that it's not entirely possible (probable?) that it's a Christian Bock scenario where yeah, he'll take time, but he also ain't gonna end up that good.
- Not really sure where Van Unen fits in, don't think anyone does. Interesting to see how that finishes up.
- Amazing Pears has another year left. I think we are all in agreeance that we love the bloke and if he doesn't make it it's not through lack of trying but I simply don't think he will ever get to what he could have been.
- Ambrose likely to be upgraded.
By my count we have
Zaharakis - Currently re-signing
Daniher - 2/3/4 yrs
Gleeson - 2
Hibberd - 2/3
Hocking - 2
Howlett - 2
As certainties to re-sign.
Then as possible/probables we have:
Fletcher - 30% chance
Winderlich - 40% chance
Hams - 60% chance
Ashby - 60% chance
Hardingham - 70% chance.
To re-sign. All my estimates and I'll probably get flamed for it but that's where I think they sit. Fletcher and Winderlich will obviously go around again if they play 80% of the games from here on in but we know with both of them it will only take an injury or two... touch wood.
As for the other 3 it really depends on how the season ends. But I'm just hesitant to put them as certainties given how long we have to play out still. That leaves:
Browne
Gregory
Jetta
Van Unen
As much as I'd love to see him given another year I'm not sure Browne will survive. As for the other 3 you'd think they would be borderline.
I just really really really really think it's too early to comment on this but I'm in the thread so:
- I'll start on the obvious. Surprised it hasn't been said but this is Dell's 3rd and final year on the rookie list no matter what. Upgrade or cut. I'd upgrade, obviously, but it's just as obvious he's more likely to be delisted. I also think if he is to be upgraded he needs to play seniors this year and show what he can do to get the nod and I can't see that happening.
- Gregory didn't do much for me when I've seen it but obviously the big blokes take time. Also don't be sucked in to thinking that it's not entirely possible (probable?) that it's a Christian Bock scenario where yeah, he'll take time, but he also ain't gonna end up that good.
- Not really sure where Van Unen fits in, don't think anyone does. Interesting to see how that finishes up.
- Amazing Pears has another year left. I think we are all in agreeance that we love the bloke and if he doesn't make it it's not through lack of trying but I simply don't think he will ever get to what he could have been.
- Ambrose likely to be upgraded.
By my count we have Zaharakis - Currently re-signing Daniher - 2/3/4 yrs Gleeson - 2 Hibberd - 2/3 Hocking - 2 Howlett - 2 As certainties to re-sign. Then as possible/probables we have: Fletcher - 30% chance Winderlich - 40% chance Hams - 60% chance
Ashby - 60% chance
Hardingham - 70% chance.
To re-sign. All my estimates and I'll probably get flamed for it but that's where I think they sit. Fletcher and Winderlich will obviously go around again if they play 80% of the games from here on in but we know with both of them it will only take an injury or two... touch wood.
As for the other 3 it really depends on how the season ends. But I'm just hesitant to put them as certainties given how long we have to play out still. That leaves:
Browne
Gregory
Jetta
Van Unen
As much as I'd love to see him given another year I'm not sure Browne will survive. As for the other 3 you'd think they would be borderline.
Glad you did comment because that's a pretty rational and thorough examination of the playing group I mostly agree with everything except Pears I can't imagine us choosing to get rid of him as he is the only senior listed reserve backman.
I am of the belief that if fit he would have played on Sunday. However similarly it may not be our choice particularly if Fletch rolls around another year. We can't keep asking him to wait until fletch calls it quits or gets injured for a game. Particularly when teams like the scum would love him on their list.
I would think Dell and Stein will be let go also.
reckon decisions on VU and stein may depend a little bit on whether anyone want's to throw coin and a trade at pears. if someone come sniffing rd with a 2nd round pick and he is interested and be inclined to keep one of em. I'd like to see how stein goes at senior level in defence.
Part of any fridge restocking (read: list management) is making changes. Part of any good fridge restocking is choosing the right players to let go of.
according to Dunlop's thread
Ashby
Browne
Daniher
Fletcher
Gleeson
Gregory
Hams
Hardingham
Hibberd
Hocking
Howlett
Jetta
Van Unen
Winderlich
Zaharakis
are all out of contract at the end of 2014, as are all rookies:
Ambrose
Dell'Olio
Rayner
Steinberg
Thurlow
My question is, with the mandatory 3 list changes per year, who stays and who goes.
ones under the pump would be
Hardy
Jetta
VU
Dell
Stein
Hams
Jetta is pretty much out the door no doubt.
Hardy's start to the season MAY save him if he continues to improve as a forward
Hams has potentila so they will probably stick with him.
VU is along way off being at AFL ready, up to them whether they can wait to find out what sort of player he will be.
Dell who knows
Stein well there's only one real explanation as to why he was even kept, and that's a conspiracy theory.
This years drafting and or trading will be very important. It will either be a cull of players who can't or haven't shown anything, or we will stagnate with the current list we have, which outside of the top 22 to 25 ish, needs to improve for us as a whole to improve.
Oh. Rookie list cloggers.
Umm, who cares? ;) (please don't turn this into a flamewar, you angry man).
Not really fussed, if the club still sees them as a backup option (Dell) or some development left (Stein), and we're missing out on the last rookie pick or two...meh. I think overall we've done well clearing the decks on the main list and getting the best guys who've slipped through the gaps, that's the downside.
Sniper.
Yeah, don't undervalue the rookie list. It's been a great source of both top up players and diamonds in the rough for us. But the discussion was more about dropping Van Unen or Gregory onto the rookie list. I don't see the point of this practice, and it's been proved to be unsuccessful time and time again.
And if we didn't have Steinberg and Peeto needlessly taking up a spot this year, we might have been able to draft a mature ruckman who could have actually played. The rookie list can still have cloggers.
But yeah, not a big deal.
We drafted Thurlow? Are you telling me we knew there was a better ruckman and decided we'd give everyone else a go at finding him and draft Thurlow instead?
We probably needed two ruckman, one to develop, and one who could play seniors if needed. (i want to say Darren Jolly, but I don't want to say Darren Jolly) I'm not really sure which one they saw Thurlow as. I'm assuming they thought he'd be able to step up, but weren't really expecting that to be in rounds 3 & 4.
But considering how big a hole there was/is in our ruck stocks - and the fact we just made Carlisle ruck against Shrek - just picking Thurlow hasn't really been a win at this point.
I think they probably just thought he was the best option overall. 4 weeks into his career so we've got a fair idea by now.
Just think you need to be mindful of where rookie draft picks actually rank... generally start about the 80 or 90th pick taken, and I don't think we've missed a 1st or even 2nd round rookie pick, so we're talking about picks probably after 110 or 120... and you missed the sarcastica in your fury.
Can't believe so many people are putting Hams, Ashby and even Gregory into the potential deslistee category. I might be wrong but if drafted at 18 you need to have at least 2 'full' preseasons before anyone can make a real call on you. Hams showed something in his brief appearances last year and his hard body in and under style will be needed, Ashby has done nothing wrong in his 2 games - I agree he hasn't proved himself to be a star of competition, but who does in their first 2 games - while Gregory was clearly drafted as a long term prospect to replace Fletch when he retires sometime around 2025 and therefore will most likely be persisted with.
Can't believe so many people are putting Hams, Ashby and even Gregory into the potential deslistee category. I might be wrong but if drafted at 18 you need to have at least 2 'full' preseasons before anyone can make a real call on you. Hams showed something in his brief appearances last year and his hard body in and under style will be needed, Ashby has done nothing wrong in his 2 games - I agree he hasn't proved himself to be a star of competition, but who does in their first 2 games - while Gregory was clearly drafted as a long term prospect to replace Fletch when he retires sometime around 2025 and therefore will most likely be persisted with.
I don't think people are saying they are rubbish footballers and a waste of a draft pick but you have to make 3 mandatory list changes at the end of a season and unless there are a few who retire or we are busy in the trade portion of the year someone however deserving may be unlucky
Can't believe so many people are putting Hams, Ashby and even Gregory into the potential deslistee category. I might be wrong but if drafted at 18 you need to have at least 2 'full' preseasons before anyone can make a real call on you. Hams showed something in his brief appearances last year and his hard body in and under style will be needed, Ashby has done nothing wrong in his 2 games - I agree he hasn't proved himself to be a star of competition, but who does in their first 2 games - while Gregory was clearly drafted as a long term prospect to replace Fletch when he retires sometime around 2025 and therefore will most likely be persisted with.
I don't think people are saying they are rubbish footballers and a waste of a draft pick but you have to make 3 mandatory list changes at the end of a season and unless there are a few who retire or we are busy in the trade portion of the year someone however deserving may be unlucky
It's harsh to write Van Unen off on 1 game, against last years grand finalist, interstate and in difficult conditions. Thats a pretty tough ask for your first gig.
Made some errors yes, but even senior blokes did under pressure, so I'm reserving my judgement.
From a few VFL games I've seen he's a really good lock down defender, and the type of tough defender you need, can't just have a list full of flashy running back flankers.
Can't believe so many people are putting Hams, Ashby and even Gregory into the potential deslistee category. I might be wrong but if drafted at 18 you need to have at least 2 'full' preseasons before anyone can make a real call on you. Hams showed something in his brief appearances last year and his hard body in and under style will be needed, Ashby has done nothing wrong in his 2 games - I agree he hasn't proved himself to be a star of competition, but who does in their first 2 games - while Gregory was clearly drafted as a long term prospect to replace Fletch when he retires sometime around 2025 and therefore will most likely be persisted with.
I don't think people are saying they are rubbish footballers and a waste of a draft pick but you have to make 3 mandatory list changes at the end of a season and unless there are a few who retire or we are busy in the trade portion of the year someone however deserving may be unlucky
IMO we will find a way to keep these players.
I'd be very surprised if those 3 were in line for delisting. Fletch will IMHO retire, Jetta must be gone & Van Unen as a mature age recruit hasn't shown enough to get another contract. Pears would need to find something pretty soon or most liley be traded. With the draft penalties I can't see a more than average turnover unless we soemhow become very trade active.
There is no way Ashby is in danger. I think he’s a certainty to get resigned. Hams should be safe too. He gives us a bit of grunt around the stoppages. I actually think he’s a better prospect than Kav, who plenty of people rate. With Gregory, I just don’t see it with him. I’ve only seen him play about seven times, so others would be better qualified to comment.
Can't believe so many people are putting Hams, Ashby and even Gregory into the potential deslistee category. I might be wrong but if drafted at 18 you need to have at least 2 'full' preseasons before anyone can make a real call on you. Hams showed something in his brief appearances last year and his hard body in and under style will be needed, Ashby has done nothing wrong in his 2 games - I agree he hasn't proved himself to be a star of competition, but who does in their first 2 games - while Gregory was clearly drafted as a long term prospect to replace Fletch when he retires sometime around 2025 and therefore will most likely be persisted with.
Mike Ross
Michael Still
Both delisted after first contract. Michael Still was a tall too. And there would be truckloads more for people who have followed for longer than me.
Sometimes you just get them wrong, or take a punt and it doesn't work.
reckon decisions on VU and stein may depend a little bit on whether anyone want's to throw coin and a trade at pears. if someone come sniffing rd with a 2nd round pick and he is interested and be inclined to keep one of em. I'd like to see how stein goes at senior level in defence.
Whilst I completely agree, there's no way anyone would give us a second rd pick for Pears. That's pick 36 at worst, 19 at best. I'd take 36 for Pears and upgrade Stein or use DVU (whoever they think is better) as depth in a heartbeat. I am even a fan of Hardy down back if Ambrose is going to get upgraded and used as a fwd though that's harder to argue given how good Hardy has been so far (so don't flame me)
Though that does change if Fletcher gives it away as we have another spot to fill.
Whether or not Fletcher gives it away, whether or not Gregory improves we still need to recruit a tall back or two. Need to take a medium term view…he’s going to retire one of these decades.