Take it or leave this tid bit.
My mate was on Holiday in Bali last week and ran into Jobe and Tbell at Potato Head.
Both boys were pretty tipsy and my buddy started up a conversation with Tbell.
Basically Tbell just unleashed about Hirdy. They simply do not get along.
he didnāt find out why he doesnāt like him, it may be well because he was dropped the week before or the ASAGA or the contract thing.
But to put it bluntly he thinks Hird is a c**t.
Iām tipping he is going.
Well, I did say I don't know the relativities. So I have no idea what the normal price for your #2 goal scorer is. $700k may be too much - it certainly is on output from the last two seasons. A lot always depends on when and who you're signing with.Clokeās comparison may not be apt, as I think the salary cap has increased since then (Buddy possibly the same).
Cloke resigned for under 500k in 2010. Iām not sure when Tbell signed his last agreement but Iāll assume 2013 after his good year. I know the cap is currently set to increase 150K per year so Iāll work on that & say that 500K in 2010 would be equal to approx. 525k in 2013, thatās still a fair way short. Also the Buddy offer from Hawthorn was at the end of 2014 when he went to Sydney. Now of course we donāt know exactly what any of these guys actually got but if we put any belief in the reports it clearly highlights that Tbell would be MASSIVE overs to be getting 700K. If he wants that then he can walk to any club stupid enough to pay it.
Sadly, weāre probably the only club that stupid.
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24.Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.
The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?
Quickly on the last bit, I donāt know who sets it. I donāt even know what is par for an established best 22 player, so I donāt know how much $700k is out of line with the average.Do I think a #2 ruckman could ever be worth $700k? Hell yes. Belly was our #2 goal scorer that year, despite spending enough time in the ruck to accumulate 22 hit outs. He scored enough goals to be either #2 or #3 goal scorer at virtually every team in the league. How much should the #2/#3 goal scorer get - I would expect it would be a lot even if they arenāt spending 40% odd of their time in the ruck. How much is Gunston getting?
Now, if Belly was paid that too soon before proving himself, well thatās obviously a pretty valid argument. Of course, we have no idea what happens if he doesnāt get injured. And that was his market price if others were willing to pay the same or more. I can say having another guy kicking 1.5 goals a game last year would have been damn useful. Was 2013 a once off? Was it a once-off only due to the subsequent injuries? Or will he bounce back? I donāt know, but obviously their critical questions when determining his future value.
And I generally agree that to be a top side everyone has to be taking a discount. But I do think GWS/GC did distort the market for a while there.
It was a shocking decision by the club - T-Bell should have been encouraged to walk, so we could have got one of GWS current players or one of their 17 yr old - Like Jesse Hogan.
Poor form from the club - T-Bell is worth 400K max.
Well, I did say I don't know the relativities. So I have no idea what the normal price for your #2 goal scorer is. $700k may be too much - it certainly is on output from the last two seasons. A lot always depends on when and who you're signing with.Clokeās comparison may not be apt, as I think the salary cap has increased since then (Buddy possibly the same).
Cloke resigned for under 500k in 2010. Iām not sure when Tbell signed his last agreement but Iāll assume 2013 after his good year. I know the cap is currently set to increase 150K per year so Iāll work on that & say that 500K in 2010 would be equal to approx. 525k in 2013, thatās still a fair way short. Also the Buddy offer from Hawthorn was at the end of 2014 when he went to Sydney. Now of course we donāt know exactly what any of these guys actually got but if we put any belief in the reports it clearly highlights that Tbell would be MASSIVE overs to be getting 700K. If he wants that then he can walk to any club stupid enough to pay it.
700k Hirdy or else im going to ASADA....Not saying this is the case but it could be a scary thought
Thatās not holding a gun to his head, thatās pulling the pin on a grenade. Wouldnāt happen.
Would be straight out the door either way. Not that I think it would ever happen.
Bye Tom
A ruckman needs to tap it to his midfield
And actually try and enforce his dominance around the groundā¦ at the moment he cant fight his way out of a wet paper bagā¦ to have Cam Mooney criticise his effort and call him soft is saying something.
700k Hirdy or else im going to ASADA....Not saying this is the case but it could be a scary thought
Thatās not holding a gun to his head, thatās pulling the pin on a grenade. Wouldnāt happen.
700k Hirdy or else im going to ASADA....Not saying this is the case but it could be a scary thought
I imagine that would create a pretty good workplace relationship.
700k Hirdy or else im going to ASADAā¦
Not saying this is the case but it could be a scary thought
Well, I did say I donāt know the relativities. So I have no idea what the normal price for your #2 goal scorer is. $700k may be too much - it certainly is on output from the last two seasons. A lot always depends on when and who youāre signing with.
Clokeās comparison may not be apt, as I think the salary cap has increased since then (Buddy possibly the same).
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24.Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.
The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?
Quickly on the last bit, I donāt know who sets it. I donāt even know what is par for an established best 22 player, so I donāt know how much $700k is out of line with the average.Do I think a #2 ruckman could ever be worth $700k? Hell yes. Belly was our #2 goal scorer that year, despite spending enough time in the ruck to accumulate 22 hit outs. He scored enough goals to be either #2 or #3 goal scorer at virtually every team in the league. How much should the #2/#3 goal scorer get - I would expect it would be a lot even if they arenāt spending 40% odd of their time in the ruck. How much is Gunston getting?
Now, if Belly was paid that too soon before proving himself, well thatās obviously a pretty valid argument. Of course, we have no idea what happens if he doesnāt get injured. And that was his market price if others were willing to pay the same or more. I can say having another guy kicking 1.5 goals a game last year would have been damn useful. Was 2013 a once off? Was it a once-off only due to the subsequent injuries? Or will he bounce back? I donāt know, but obviously their critical questions when determining his future value.
And I generally agree that to be a top side everyone has to be taking a discount. But I do think GWS/GC did distort the market for a while there.
I reckon Gunston would be on less than 450K & Roughead would be on less than 600k. The reality is that even if you split the entire cap evenly between your best 22 its still only approx. 450k each. When you take out even minimum payments for the rest of your list you can only be left with less than 8 mil or so, & that reduces your best 22 further to approx. 360K. Is Tbell worth double the average? I honestly reckon its likely that thereās nobody at Hawthorn on more than 700k. The reports were they were offering Buddy up to 800K so that means he was getting less than that when he was winning Colemansā. Remember when we offered Cloke 500K to come to EFC? He was getting 350K a year & the report was he stayed at Collingwood for less than what we were offering.
To one of the above points, I donāt think Bellchambers should have been rucking solo all year either and we saw the benefit of him having less time in the middle when he took that big grab late in the game against Norf. Thatās the kind of impact weāve been missing.
The problem has been the belief that we would be too tall up forward (which were the exact comments after the St Kilda game where the extra tall happened to be The Langford), which meant dropping one of Daniher Carlisle or Ambrose making way for a second ruck. These three have had ups and downs but the selection committee is pretty set around keeping them in the team. Since none of them are effective in the ruck, Bellchambers has had to go solo.
I donāt think from a balance perspective we have had it right all year and we should have been running with a second ruck, but obviously Iām not on the selection committee.
Those orange strides areā¦ extraordinaryā¦
And to think of all the cr@p we (deservedly) hung on Mitch Robinson for the appalling girlās pants he was wearing when he was in the punch-on at the Big Day Out (or whatever it was)ā¦ Surely Bellchambers has now set the bar at an all-time high (low?) in the woefulness stakes?
Iād say theyāre more of a ācustard yellowā than orange.
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24.Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.
The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?
Do I think a #2 ruckman could ever be worth $700k? Hell yes. Belly was our #2 goal scorer that year, despite spending enough time in the ruck to accumulate 22 hit outs. He scored enough goals to be either #2 or #3 goal scorer at virtually every team in the league. How much should the #2/#3 goal scorer get - I would expect it would be a lot even if they arenāt spending 40% odd of their time in the ruck. How much is Gunston getting?
Now, if Belly was paid that too soon before proving himself, well thatās obviously a pretty valid argument. Of course, we have no idea what happens if he doesnāt get injured. And that was his market price if others were willing to pay the same or more. I can say having another guy kicking 1.5 goals a game last year would have been damn useful. Was 2013 a once off? Was it a once-off only due to the subsequent injuries? Or will he bounce back? I donāt know, but obviously their critical questions when determining his future value.
And I generally agree that to be a top side everyone has to be taking a discount. But I do think GWS/GC did distort the market for a while there.
Heāll surely be taking a significant pay cut if we keep him. I canāt imagine that anyone will be forking out $700k for his services. Every team has one ruckman better than Belly, and quite a few have two. To be honest, I donāt think he is tough enough to be a #1 ruck.
Really, all you need from your first ruck is a competitor. Hawthorn grabbed Ceglar, who was fourth in line at Collingwood before being delisted, and he is getting job done because he is combative and always gives a contest. Iād be happy to replace Belly with a mature state leaguer who is willing and able to give a contest at all times.
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24.Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.
The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.
Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?
When he signed, the major issue was GWS were chasing him, with big piles of dollars (that they subsequently used on Mumford). He was starting FF, and 2nd ruck - and played a fair bit in the ruck that year, not Carlisle type 2nd ruck minutes.
Cuddles subsequently got poached, we cleared Gumby, Davey got the ā ā ā ā , and that was the last time Hurley would play forward. So he was basically the only guy from the forward line that we retained.
It was overs - it was always overs - but not crazy cocobananas overs.
If we retain him for 500k, Iām happy to keep him. But not much more. His injuries and āformā could actually work in our favour.
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24. R Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.
Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?
To be a restricted free agent he has to be one of our 10 highest paid players. What would our 10th highest paid player be getting?
TBell has barely ever been close to one of our best 10 players IMO.
Many people seem to have dismissed Belly's 2013 year. There was a reason he got paid the big bucks. He had just turned 24 at seasons end, and from 18 games had kicked 28 goals while averaging almost 22 hit outs. He had the 40th most goals in the AFL (by total or average), which establishes him pretty easily to be any teams 2nd/3rd highest goal kicker. While also averaging 22 hit outs. Having just turned 24.Of course he was paid a lot. He was looking like the quintessential #2 ruck. His value will have gone down after two injury wrecked seasons, but at the time he would have only been expected to get better.
The real question is why the hell did Hird play him all year as sole ruck, which is not his strength, when weāre screaming for goals?
Do you reckon, if the rumours are true that a #2 ruckman is ever worth 700k per year? The figure has been bandied about a bit but I just canāt believe we would be that stupid. I thought we overpaid for Hurley & Ryder & they were on slightly less. Seriously if we paid Tbell 700k, based on 1 decent season when we had Ryder as the no.1 ruck then we just havenāt yet grasped the whole way this comp works. You cannot afford to pay players on potential & to be successful you cannot expect to even pay what each player is worth. The top sides simply have to get more out of their players than their market worth. 700k should get you a star player who regularly performs & is in or around the top 20% of players in the league for his role.
Iāve asked this before but never gotten an answer - who is ultimately responsible for determining what each player gets? Is it the CEO? Does the board get involved? Does Dodoro do all the work & then its signed off from above?