Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Since when is “doing everything to make it” sufficient? I’d do anything to make it but I make Liam Jones look talented.
Eades has had 12 months not 5 years on a list so he deserves another look if he straightens up.
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Different positions and scenarios really.
Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.
Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.
Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Hams has had plenty of chances and the reality is that he does not have enough tools to make it. It’s harsh because Hams has had a tough time. That said, so has Eades. The bottom line though is that EFC needs to make decisions on facts and not sentiment.
Hams has had 2 more years on the list than Eades and is 2.5 years older. That said, if neither are going to make it, both should be delisted.
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Hams has had plenty of chances and the reality is that he does not have enough tools to make it. It’s harsh because Hams has had a tough time. That said, so has Eades. The bottom line though is that EFC needs to make decisions on facts and not sentiment.
Hams has had 2 more years on the list than Eades and is 2.5 years older. That said, if neither are going to make it, both should be delisted.
And that I guess, is being ruthless.
But that doesn’t mean internally the club can’t act with compsssion and grace-which I’m sure it would.
I reckon there are more delisting to come. I don’t think we’ll pass on pick 68, which is mid-draft, and 20 picks before Hawthorn’s first selection! And we probably want to keep one for the pre-season draft too. So two more to go at least.
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto him
I know the nitrates and nitrites supposedly aren’t great for you but come on!
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Hams has had plenty of chances and the reality is that he does not have enough tools to make it. It’s harsh because Hams has had a tough time. That said, so has Eades. The bottom line though is that EFC needs to make decisions on facts and not sentiment.
Hams has had 2 more years on the list than Eades and is 2.5 years older. That said, if neither are going to make it, both should be delisted.
And that I guess, is being ruthless.
But that doesn’t mean internally the club can’t act with compsssion and grace-which I’m sure it would.
I think being put on the rookie list this year instead of being delisted for Hams was compassion. I think that giving Eades the opportunity to get a rookie list spot this year is compassion. It’s just a matter of how far to go with it on a list of 40ish.
I would certainly hope that all players delisted get support post delisting. I think it’s really important. Personally speaking, I was retrenched in the past 12 months. As it turns out, I’m really glad it happened. Luckily the organisation did provide support outside of monetary payment which was great also.
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himHave you checked the expiration date? if its still in date, theres no need to get rid of it
Hams has the tools and when he had those stretch of games showed he belonged as a defensive forward with stints in the middle. With Kommer gone, Hams stays.
If we could get the really good Hams, Iberico hams, it’d be worthwhile. Some of those are worth about 5 grand.
essendonfc.com.au/news/2016-10-26/list-changesLegit held my breath in opening that.
Survives one more day.
I WANT TO BELIEVE.
Hams has the tools and when he had those stretch of games showed he belonged as a defensive forward with stints in the middle. With Kommer gone, Hams stays.I'm not sure that people on here know what hams has been through personally. He's done remarkably well to be where he is and kudos to the club for sticking by him. He's only going to get better next year.
Hams has the tools and when he had those stretch of games showed he belonged as a defensive forward with stints in the middle. With Kommer gone, Hams stays.I'm not sure that people on here know what hams has been through personally. He's done remarkably well to be where he is and kudos to the club for sticking by him. He's only going to get better next year.
The issue remains, is his improvement going to be enough to make it as a regular AFL player? l doubt it.
I refined this a bit more and now I think I have nailed our actual and potential list vacancies (potential = ?), and have indicated the various mechanisms by which they can still be filled, with: - draft picks - delisted free agent signings - rookie promotions - creation of intentional senior list vacancies (creating more rookie spots and promotion flexibility) and - PSD picksSenior list vacancies
1. Vacancy left over from last season
2. Cooney
3. Ashby
4. Edwards
5. Gwilt
6. Hibberd
7. Pears
8. Kommer
9. Eades - (becoming a rookie?)
10. Dempsey
11. McKernan?Rookie vacancies (category A):
- Wallis (rookie)
- Hams (rookie)
- Gach (rookie)
- Long’s rookie place if promoted?
- Walla’s place if senior list vacancy remains? (resulting in a 5th Category A rookie spot)
- If another senior list vacancy was created? (resulting in a 6th Category A rookie spot)
Rookie vacancies (category B ):
- Vacancy left over from last season
- Vacancy left over from last season
- Conor McKenna’s place if promoted?
Senior list ins:
- Walla (rookie promotion)
- Kelly
- Dea
- Stewart
5. Pick 1- Pick 20
- Pick 29
- Pick 41
- Pick 68 or delisted free agent or rookie promotion (McKenna or Long)
- Pick 95 or delisted free agent or rookie promotion or PSD pick 1 or senior list vacancy?
- Pick 118 or delisted free agent or rookie promotion or PSD pick or senior list vacancy?
Rookie ins (category A):
1. Pick 1 (rookie) Wallis’ place
2. Pick 19 (rookie) Hams’ place.
3. Pick 37 (rookie) Gach’s place.- Eades?
4. Pick 55 (rookie) Long’s place if promoted?
5. Pick 55 (5th rookie) if senior list vacancy remains? (Walla’s place)
6. Pick 73 (6th rookie) if there is another senior list vacancy created?An alternative to the rookie picks being used is placing senior players such as Eades, Kommer, McKernan or Dempsey on the rookie list.
Rookie ins (category B ):
- Free selection of international, or undrafted nominated Aboriginal or multicultural talent from our zone, also competing for AFL nominated or other nominated players from other zones who have missed out on being drafted and not selected by the owners of their zone.
- As above.
- Conor McKenna’s place if promoted to senior list.
Emma Quayle has a good article on the category B rookies ( theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-clubs-to-get-free-shot-at-multicultural-and-indigenous-rookies-after-this-years-draft-20160727-gqexp2.html )
Quoting myself to show an updated version of the list state of play with regards to list vacancies.
In the senior list ins, see bolded section showing the confirmed unfilled vacancies and how they might be filled.
ie: use of draft picks 1, 20, 29, 41 and 68 possible or a combination of these and picking up, delisted free agents, rookie promotions, PSD picks or creation of senior list vacancies.
If Eades is rookied, there is no other confirmed selections in the Category A rookie draft,
why is Eades a possible de-listing and re-rookie option?Midway through the year Blitz was calling for him to get a game and now he is a front-runner to get the flick from the senior list?
I don’t get it. I saw him in the vfl 3 or 4 times and thought he looked quite promising. Admittedly that was in the first half of the year.
He was always out smoking at Club functions - one of the reasons.
Start of the year he was on fire in the pre season then went missing. Got a in club ban, not sure what for but was basically banished for a good 1-2 months. Something was going on.If his isn’t the rocket he needs then nothing will be. I just don’t see where te improvement is going to come from myself.
No, the other Eades!
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto himYeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail
Different positions and scenarios really.
Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.
Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.
Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.
Where does all this ‘phenomenal talent’ talk come from??
Got the feeling Jackets and the recruitment team made a decision last year that they will use picks 40ish and under to pick kids and any later picks they will go with mature ages (see Mitch Brown and Hartley picks). The % of players over pick 40 odd playing 100 games is very low. See Eades who was pick 55ish and how that has gone so far.Sure there are some odd gems out there, but they may be playing the percentages
It is a good theory. Why spend pick 60 on an 18 year old roughy when you can spend it on a 22 year old who has spent 4 years in a second tier comp establishing his credentials and getting his body ready for seniors.
That, now ready and close to sure thing, 22 year old was probably in consideration for a late pick 4 years earlier along with a couple of dozen of his mates only a handful of whom are still in contention 4 years on.
Hartley is the perfect example of this in practise but we have had a lot of successful mature age role players come into the side since about 2009.
You are able to pick these players out of the vfl with a high degree of confidence that they can, at worst, play a senior role if required.
Maximising the number of players on your list who can contribute at senior level at any one time is good list management.
Talk of delisting 8 or nine players goes against history of any year I can remember.Many supporters want this many or more but doesn’t happen.
When this thread started there were a lot of things thrown around in all sorts of directions. And people were referring to overall list ‘changes’ not delisting.
Currently we have 9 confirmed list changes with Dempsey and Smack still in limbo. So the early thread predictions have been pretty close to accurate thus far. Goes to show that perhaps some shouldn’t be so quick to judge others that have a different opinion on matters.
Talk of delisting 8 or nine players goes against history of any year I can remember.Many supporters want this many or more but doesn’t happen.
When this thread started there were a lot of things thrown around in all sorts of directions. And people were referring to overall list ‘changes’ not delisting.
Currently we have 9 confirmed list changes with Dempsey and Smack still in limbo. So the early thread predictions have been pretty close to accurate thus far. Goes to show that perhaps some shouldn’t be so quick to judge others that have a different opinion on matters.
I suppose Baccusfox is excluding retirements and trades from his figure of 8-9. At this point we have strictly speaking “delisted” 6 and it could yet be 7 or 8. Maybe the club did not want to name 4 yesterday, to minimise media interest in what appears a “normal” level of delistings.
List turnover includes trades and retirements . We turned over 10 last year and it will be about 10 this year, but part of that higher than usual number is a lag from the draft sanctions period . A number of clubs have turned over 12 or more players this year.
Talk of delisting 8 or nine players goes against history of any year I can remember.Many supporters want this many or more but doesn’t happen.
When this thread started there were a lot of things thrown around in all sorts of directions. And people were referring to overall list ‘changes’ not delisting.
Currently we have 9 confirmed list changes with Dempsey and Smack still in limbo. So the early thread predictions have been pretty close to accurate thus far. Goes to show that perhaps some shouldn’t be so quick to judge others that have a different opinion on matters.
I suppose Baccusfox is excluding retirements and trades from his figure of 8-9. At this point we have strictly speaking “delisted” 6 and it could yet be 7 or 8. Maybe the club did not want to name 4 yesterday, to minimise media interest in what appears a “normal” level of delistings.
List turnover includes trades and retirements . We turned over 10 last year and it will be about 10 this year, but part of that higher than usual number is a lag from the draft sanctions period . A number of clubs have turned over 12 or more players this year.
Correct, I did mean players who are sacked. So at present they are
Ashby
Edwards
Gwilt
Kommer
Eades
Wallis
If Eades is rookied and Demps, Smack and Hams get another change, then it is a change of 5. Personally I would keep Dempsey and cut Smack and Hams, and try to pick up HeppA and Holmes, who I reckon shows more than Hams.
FIXED