2016-17 List changes

Football Discussion Trade week Duursma head in
526
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto him

Yeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail

Different positions and scenarios really.

Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.

Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.

Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.

Where does all this ‘phenomenal talent’ talk come from??

Was known to have elite level endurance and speed already as a junior, with x-factor.

A versatile footballer, Yestin can play as a half forward, through the midfield or at half back and already runs like a seasoned AFL player. His GPS numbers were by far the best of any Vic Country player with his intensity, his running and his speed. While he still loves to kick spectacular goals and “doing flashy stuff,” he has added a harder edge to his game this year and can also be relied upon to do all the tough stuff too. Phil Partington aptly described him as a “player that makes things happen when the ball’s around him.”
527
Talk of delisting 8 or nine players goes against history of any year I can remember.

Many supporters want this many or more but doesn’t happen.

When this thread started there were a lot of things thrown around in all sorts of directions. And people were referring to overall list ‘changes’ not delisting.

Currently we have 9 confirmed list changes with Dempsey and Smack still in limbo. So the early thread predictions have been pretty close to accurate thus far. Goes to show that perhaps some shouldn’t be so quick to judge others that have a different opinion on matters.

I suppose Baccusfox is excluding retirements and trades from his figure of 8-9. At this point we have strictly speaking “delisted” 6 and it could yet be 7 or 8. Maybe the club did not want to name 4 yesterday, to minimise media interest in what appears a “normal” level of delistings.

List turnover includes trades and retirements . We turned over 10 last year and it will be about 10 this year, but part of that higher than usual number is a lag from the draft sanctions period . A number of clubs have turned over 12 or more players this year.

Correct, I did mean players who are sacked. So at present they are

Ashby
Edwards
Gwilt
Kommer
Eades

If Eades is rookied and Demps, Smack and Hams get another change, then it is a change of 4. Personally I would keep Dempsey and cut Smack and Hams, and try to pick up HeppA and Holmes, who I reckon shows more than Hams.

If you’re counting rookie list, which it appears you are, then you missed Wallis.

528

This is a general comment rather than a response to recent comments in here … but this is the ‘new normal’ in the era of Free Agency. Generally speaking with a list of 42, you’ll keep players 1-25, most likely get rid of / trade a lot of 26-42 (depending on contract status, etc), try to pick up guys in that bracket from other clubs via DFA that meet a need, and keep the bottom-aged kids in that bracket that still might come on.

With free agency and improved ability for players to move clubs comes greater money for the stars, but it means that clubs are now much less loyal to guys at the middle and bottom end and much more ruthless in moving them on. I’m not sure players really thought about this as an outcome when they pushed so hard for free agency.

529
This is a general comment rather than a response to recent comments in here ... but this is the 'new normal' in the era of Free Agency. Generally speaking with a list of 42, you'll keep players 1-25, most likely get rid of / trade a lot of 26-42 (depending on contract status, etc), try to pick up guys in that bracket from other clubs via DFA that meet a need, and keep the bottom-aged kids in that bracket that still might come on.

With free agency and improved ability for players to move clubs comes greater money for the stars, but it means that clubs are now much less loyal to guys at the middle and bottom end and much more ruthless in moving them on. I’m not sure players really thought about this as an outcome when they pushed so hard for free agency.

I think they have completely stuffed free agency. I think after ten years with one club a player should be free to go where ever he wants with no compensation to the relinquishing club. Should be a reward for loyalty. if the clubs isn’t good enough to keep their players after ten years they need to have a good hard look at themselves. Its not just about money its about success and new starts.
Gets rid of all these compensation picks.

530
This is a general comment rather than a response to recent comments in here ... but this is the 'new normal' in the era of Free Agency. Generally speaking with a list of 42, you'll keep players 1-25, most likely get rid of / trade a lot of 26-42 (depending on contract status, etc), try to pick up guys in that bracket from other clubs via DFA that meet a need, and keep the bottom-aged kids in that bracket that still might come on.

With free agency and improved ability for players to move clubs comes greater money for the stars, but it means that clubs are now much less loyal to guys at the middle and bottom end and much more ruthless in moving them on. I’m not sure players really thought about this as an outcome when they pushed so hard for free agency.

I think they have completely stuffed free agency. I think after ten years with one club a player should be free to go where ever he wants with no compensation to the relinquishing club. Should be a reward for loyalty. if the clubs isn’t good enough to keep their players after ten years they need to have a good hard look at themselves. Its not just about money its about success and new starts.
Gets rid of all these compensation picks.

People always complain about equalisation and Hawthorn/other good teams staying good for too long, but free agency compensation is directly meant to address this, not only to weak teams not just lose all their good players to other clubs for nothing, but the lower you are on the ladder the more you get for the same player (eg fremantle getting way overs for chris mayne, but if they had finished top 3 on the ladder they would have got more around market price)

So I think FA compensation is a good idea, and even contributes to helping people move as clubs are more inclined to let them go to their new destination

531
This is a general comment rather than a response to recent comments in here ... but this is the 'new normal' in the era of Free Agency. Generally speaking with a list of 42, you'll keep players 1-25, most likely get rid of / trade a lot of 26-42 (depending on contract status, etc), try to pick up guys in that bracket from other clubs via DFA that meet a need, and keep the bottom-aged kids in that bracket that still might come on.

With free agency and improved ability for players to move clubs comes greater money for the stars, but it means that clubs are now much less loyal to guys at the middle and bottom end and much more ruthless in moving them on. I’m not sure players really thought about this as an outcome when they pushed so hard for free agency.

I think they have completely stuffed free agency. I think after ten years with one club a player should be free to go where ever he wants with no compensation to the relinquishing club. Should be a reward for loyalty. if the clubs isn’t good enough to keep their players after ten years they need to have a good hard look at themselves. Its not just about money its about success and new starts.
Gets rid of all these compensation picks.

People always complain about equalisation and Hawthorn/other good teams staying good for too long, but free agency compensation is directly meant to address this, not only to weak teams not just lose all their good players to other clubs for nothing, but the lower you are on the ladder the more you get for the same player (eg fremantle getting way overs for chris mayne, but if they had finished top 3 on the ladder they would have got more around market price)

So I think FA compensation is a good idea, and even contributes to helping people move as clubs are more inclined to let them go to their new destination

FA compo is good. Especially if they adjust the formula to discount heavier for top teams and be generous for bottom teams.

I thought the Frawley compo was spot on.

Buddy wasn’t bad either, Hawks didn’t get a huge amount, Melbourne got more. But I think they need to make it more extreme.

532
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto him

Yeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail

Different positions and scenarios really.

Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.

Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.

Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.

Does Eades really have phenomenal talent? Only seen him play the VFL games which were televised but I’d have Hams on the senior list ahead of him every single fkn day of the week.

533

Hams 1.85 scores per VFL game, Eades 1.27 - one of these guys was seen to be a small forward in 2016…

534
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto him

Yeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail

Different positions and scenarios really.

Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.

Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.

Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.

Does Eades really have phenomenal talent? Only seen him play the VFL games which were televised but I’d have Hams on the senior list ahead of him every single fkn day of the week.

Maybe phenomenal athletic talent?

535
Can we please get rid of Ham?; I just don't see why we are holding onto him

Yeah lets drop a rookie listed player that does everything possible to make it, that way we can give his rookie spot to a guy like Eades who does everything possible to fail

Different positions and scenarios really.

Hams has been able to extract everything he can from his talents seen over 3yrs but wasn’t good enough and never will be as an inside mid at AFL level. Good VFL player only.

Eades has phenomenal talent, just not the application. Yet. Only been 1yr. He may go the way of Shredwards, or he may go the way of Walters. Time will tell.

Demotion to rookie list a big rocket to him hopefully to show the level of professionalism expected and fight for a spot.

Does Eades really have phenomenal talent? Only seen him play the VFL games which were televised but I’d have Hams on the senior list ahead of him every single fkn day of the week.

Maybe phenomenal athletic talent?

I wouldn’t even say that.

He is not big and powerful, he is quick but not lightning. It’s been said he has good endurance but he doesn’t use it.

I just don’t see it.

536

I think in fairness as per Speedy’s post he does have AAA Elite endurance. That needs to be matched with effort/workrate to be of any use and I haven’t seen enough to comment if that had been/is part of Eades’ game.

537
Got the feeling Jackets and the recruitment team made a decision last year that they will use picks 40ish and under to pick kids and any later picks they will go with mature ages (see Mitch Brown and Hartley picks). The % of players over pick 40 odd playing 100 games is very low. See Eades who was pick 55ish and how that has gone so far.

Sure there are some odd gems out there, but they may be playing the percentages

Fantasia was also around the pick 55 mark, and that’s turned out ok. I’d much rather take the punt than keep Dempsey on the list or recruit Kelly.

538

Essendon has made a further three changes to its list ahead of the 2017 season.

The Club would like to thank veteran Courtenay Dempsey, Will Hams and Gach Nyuon for their contributions to the Club.

After 11 seasons and 133 games in the red and black, Courtenay Dempsey was today informed his contract would not be renewed.

Dempsey joined the Bombers from Morningside in Cairns, made his AFL debut in Round 7, 2006 against Carlton and was honoured with Essendon Football Club Life Membership in 2015.

General Manager of Football, Rob Kerr, thanked the versatile veteran for his outstanding services to the Essendon Football Club.

“Courtenay has made a significant contribution to the Club both on and off the field during a career which spanned more than a decade at Essendon,” Kerr said.

“He played with flair and courage, was a role model to his young teammates and has worked hard to make a difference in the Indigenous community.

“Courtenay should be extremely proud of what he has achieved at Essendon, and on behalf of everyone at the Club, we wish Courtenay, his partner Danielle and children Chenae, Taitum and Mekhi every success for the future.”

General Manager of Football, Rob Kerr, thanked Hams for his service over the past four seasons.
“Since arriving at the Club Will has shown great resilience and commitment in his approach to his career,” Kerr said.

“Will has had an unfortunate run of injuries so far, yet has worked extremely hard on key components of his game and was rewarded with some regular senior football in the back half of this season.

“He has always lead by example in his efforts to manage the demands of football and studying, and is well-respected not only for his on-field hardness, but also his positive attitude off the field.”

Kerr also thanked Nyuon for his efforts during his first year at the Club.

“Gach is obviously still raw and still has parts of his game that he’s working on,” Kerr said.

“We have faced challenging decisions with our list management and competition for spots is very tough.

“Gach is keen to learn, so we hope he continues to develop his game as he works towards reaching his football potential.

“Both Will and Gach will always be welcome at the Essendon Football Club and we wish them all the best for the future.”

Hams was drafted to the Club with pick 6 in the 2013 Pre-Season Draft and played 13 senior games for the Bombers after making his debut in Round 10, 2013 against Sydney.

Nyuon was drafted with pick 4 in the National Rookie Draft in 2015 and made his debut in the VFL during the 2016 season.

Summary of changes to date;
· Trades: Michael Hibberd (Melbourne Football Club)
· Retirees: Adam Cooney & Tayte Pears
· Delistings: James Gwilt, Jason Ashby, Shaun Edwards, Tom Wallis, Nick Kommer, Yestin Eades, Will Hams, Gach Nyuon & Courtenay Dempsey

539

woah http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2016-10-28/list-changes

540

Bring in Darcy, Cameron anyone from my list of mature aged blokes

Firmly in the mix to be selected in the national draft is developing North Ballarat ruckman Rowan Marshall. The 203cm big man, who will turn 21 in November, has shown significant growth in the VFL this season and has shown ability both through the ruck and up forward. His tackling this season has proven particularly impressive along with his mobility and involvement around the ground.

and

Another young ruckman who is also in the mix to be selected is 21-year-old, 204cm, 104kg Claremont ruckman Darcy Cameron. Cameron has taken another step in the right direction this year and has not only proven effective as a tap ruckman but also as a forward with 36 goals and 106 marks from his 19 WAFL League games. He has had another impressive season and may, as a relieving ruckman or No. 1 ruckman, be a developable player.

and

Of the other ruckmen, Casey’s 22-year-old, 203cm, 100kg Oscar McInerney big man is the third ruckman in the mix and is another genuine draft chance. He moves well and displays impressive cleanness below his knees for someone of his height.

541

Well thatll satisfy the pitchforkers

542

very very harsh on Hams

543

Didn’t expect Hams to go.

544

Yep really feel for Hamsy…wanted him to have another year even just on the rookie list again; he finally took some steps this year.

With Kommer, Eades and now Hams who was playing as a small forward for a lot of 2016, I think it’s safe to say Josh Green will be on our list

545
very very harsh on Hams

Had heaps of time to make it injury prone and just a little rag doll ish in the contest