Perhaps fortune tellers is a good way to go?
Then we would know everything about all the draftees futures prior to drafting them.
Wanting us to draft more mids, and then picking on Myers and Melksham as examples of fails is a bit silly really.
Zach didnât fall to us. He wasnât even on other clubs radar
What about one of those animals they use to tip the soccer World Cup. Get an octopus in to draw balls out.
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Zach was rated before our pick in just about every phantom draft there was & clubs spoke to him confirming their interest. Emma Quail for example had him going to Sydney at pick 15. He slid because of concerns about his height & the fact that he hadnât done a pre-season in the TAC because he was playing cricket. Dodoro explained it all a few weeks ago that we expected him to be gone & when he was still there it was a last second decision to pick him. We were planning to draft Lobb (we even phoned Lobb on draft day to tell him) & Dodoro thought Zach would be gone in the 1st round. Now Lobb looks like heâs developing well but can you imagine our list right now with Lobb & no Merrett 
So you donât think Myers, Melksham etc are factors in the current state of our midfield & the desperate need to draft more mids?
If you wish to argue in hindsight⌠then youâre doing it wrong. Hence my fortune teller comment.
If you wish to argue at the time of the draft⌠they are both first round picks who have played the majority of their careers in the midfield. In other words were picked with the purpose of improving the midfield.
If you want to argue about their quality and whether youâd have picked someone else, then go ahead. But I can tell you both were picked around about where all the internet numpties and media muppets thought theyâd be picked. As such, I felt it was a strange couple of blokes to be having a crack at our recruiting strategy over.
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Where have I used hindsight? Iâm saying that these guys have turned out poorly - thats not hindsight its just basic observation. The fact they have turned out poorly is a major reason why we have a poor midfield right now, not just the saga. The idea that we were just about to pick up a heap of good mids until the saga foiled our plans is nonsense & again the real reason why our midfield is weak is the drafting of guys like Myers, Melksham & Kavanagh who would be prime aged right now. Yes all these guys were drafted to try to address our midfield issues, all these guys didnât do that & again this is why we have midfield issues.
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2012
- Round 16 we were 6th on the ladder with 11 wins and 4 losses, before injuries crippled us. We lost the rest.
- We secure Goddard as a free agent.
- We take Joe Daniher with pick 10.
- Jobe wins his Brownlow.
2013
- Round 17 we were sitting 2nd on the ladder with 13 wins, 3 losses. Round 18 is likely when the players found out they werenât playing finals that year. They lost 5 of the last 6 games.
- We lose 1st & 2nd round picks, which we would have likely traded for an established mid.
- We lose any chance of securing a decent trade or free agent.
- We lose Crameri & cannot secure a decent trade due to saga.
- Daniher needed a partner forward long term so we looked at Lobb, chose Zerrett instead.
- We move into the best training facility in the competition
2014
- We managed to finish 7th, despite the physiological hell the boys had gone through.
- We lose our 1st round pick, which again we would have likely looked at trading.
- We lose Ryder and cannot secure a decent trade due to saga.
- No chance of a free agent.
2015
- This is the year we should have been peaking.
- Jobe would have been 30, Goddard 30, Heppell 23.
- Great facilities, massive crowds, finals chances would have drawn players.
- We could have had 1 extra free agent & 1 midfielder traded for a high pick.
- Players whoâs development was stunted due to the saga may have stood up.
Iâm not saying we were guaranteed to win a Grand Final, but we were a real chance to be top 4 2013-2015, playing finals each year. The gaps you complain about could have been covered by trading for established players 24-28 years old that could provide an immediate impact. Free agents would have strongly considered us due to big crowds, finals chances and awesome facilities.
Dodoro has mentioned the change in strategy caused by losing picks. His aim had been to take midfielders through draft or trade to finish balancing the list. Who knows if he could have pulled it off, but when you look at where we were, what we would have had to work with, his plan was decent.
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Question: how much involvement do you think Woosha will have in drafting/trading decisions?
I mean, can he demand pure mids for our first three picks, and Dodoro just has to carry it out? Or does he just leave it to Dodoro, who can decide that Lever is too good to pass up or that we need another young ruck or something, and Woosha just ends up fashioning a strategy out of the list that he finds himself with?
Well it would have put an end to the Hooker forward or back debate
Well done to @Benny40
Good post.
Scrag Dodoro all you like⌠but that is the hellish circumstances he was working through.
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I think the problem is youâre conflating two different arguments. There is the argument that Dodoro doesnât draft midfielders, and there is the argument he doesnât draft sufficiently well. When you say we donât have enough midfielders, then point at guys who were drafted as midfielders, it blurs the lines.
The problem with it, is that presumably when making decisions, a list manager doesnât know how everyone on the list will turn out. So (as an example), in early 2008 when we took Hurley first, a list manager might be saying - we just got with top 40 (odd) picks Dempsey, Lonnergan, Jetta, Hislop, Houli and Myers over the last 3 drafts. Weâll get a number of midfielders out of that lot, so grab Hurley over Yarran. Next year, maybe its clear thatâs not working so well, so with 4 top 32 picks he grabs 3 smalls and 1 tall. And again, it will take a little time to determine if Melksham, Colyer and Long will make it.
If youâre arguing why we donât have a strong enough midfield, both components feed into it. If youâre arguing about list manager/recruiting performance, I think they need to be split.
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Doesnât dodoro present his draft strategy to the essendon board for approval? Iâd say woosha would have input but itâs dodoro and the board who ultimately decide
The coach tells the list manager the style of play that he wants, the type of talent that he needs to execute his game plan. The list manager finds the talent to meet the needs of the coach. The coach will be in the loop and have some input, but the list manager should be the expert on what talent is available and how to get it.
This is a combination of my logic and random interviews over the past few years. Canât tell you how much Woosha forces his will over Jackets, but from his style of leaving people to do their roles, Iâd say Woosha is relatively hands off.
No props for mine.
Iâd love to know who was the driving force behind getting Chapman, Gwilt, Cooney, Giles and retaining Howlett and Winderlich. And who made the final decision.
Is this actually the case or just your assumption?
I canât remember a direct quote, but itâs the message Dodoro has give no in various interviews. Plus Woosha consistently makes clear that he doesnât micromanage people.
Thereâs a 3rd option & its what Iâm actually saying - Dodoro hasnât drafted or traded for enough quality midfielders over the last 20 years. Nobody has made the argument that he doesnât draft midfielders but I have made the point several times over the years that I believe he has not done a good enough job at getting the midfield group right. We have not had a capable midfield since his drafting & list management has taken effect. I donât believe he has a very good talent for finding mids but I do think he has been very capable at finding talls. I also think his record at trading is very poor. Iâve never been than concerned with the top ups over the years or taking a chance on guys like Edwards or Stewart (even when I thought at the start of the year he would be a very longshot to get many senior games) but again its the inability to get the midfield talent we needed that I believe has to be a firmly focused back on his role.
Now I absolutely acknowledge the saga & of course the sanctions have impacted & will continue to hurt the club for years to come. What I wonât accept is that the saga somehow washes away the sins of the past. We had a lot of years in the wilderness before the saga & some of the blame for that has to fall on our drafting & list management. Fast forward to right here & now, I believe its unreasonable to suggest the saga is the only reason why we are currently out of the 8.
I think we already have one of the weakest midfields in the league & face the prospect of losing some of the talent from it next year. Jobe I think has to retire & Goddard may follow. Zaka still hasnât signed so imagine we lose him as well. Kelly will be gone & even though he hasnâtâ played mid at all this year (I donât think), heâs still a mid style player we have to replace. Bird, Stanton, Howlett & Hocking are almost certainly gone as well - thats a lot of just pure numbers of mids let alone experience for a team with a poor midfield to lose.
Now maybe just maybe we dare to dream that Dodoro finds a Misiti, Mercuri, Hird, Wanga, Calthorpe & Olerenshaw in this & last years draft. Maybe just maybe that gun mid weâve been promised is finally delivered & we sign Kelly plus talk Rockliff into coming on board. I want to believe I really really do but logic & experience just tells me Dodoro has had 20 years to build a strong list & hasnât.
Iâll answer in more depth tomorrow (or rather, later today). But quickly, I think this downplays that the midfield was strong in 2012/13, and the idea that the saga isnât impacting our 2017 season is a bit weird. Exhibit A: Stanton.
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