Are we mortgaging our future to entice suspended players back?

I think we have an obligation to keep a list spot open for anyone who wants to return. I think from a spiritual/healing perspective also that we cannot afford to say no to any of them. This has been a journey. These have been banished from the club by forces beyond their control. The club itself is on its road to Damascus. The reunion of the club with players means much more than the addition of 12 players to the list. It’s a joining once more in a common cause, the chance to re-write the narrative and seek a kind of redemption for all - players, club, supporters. It’s symbolic as much as anything else, but potentially it’s much more than that. We can be a pretty handy side in 2017.

I say that understanding very well an opposing opinion. It may be better for us in practical terms if some of the players decline to return, but that must be their decision. In all reality for some it will be not much more than the chance to end their career in familiar colours and out on the footy field, rather than out in the wilderness. I would expect Watson and Stanton to retire inside the next 2-3 years, and Howlett and Pears to be gone in the same time-frame, if not sooner. The same goes for Goddard. I’d happily ship off someone like Bird, who I think will be surplus to needs. There will be other players we turn over. It will all work out.

I think we have an obligation to keep a list spot open for anyone who wants to return. I think from a spiritual/healing perspective also that we cannot afford to say no to any of them. This has been a journey. These have been banished from the club by forces beyond their control. The club itself is on its road to Damascus. The reunion of the club with players means much more than the addition of 12 players to the list. It's a joining once more in a common cause, the chance to re-write the narrative and seek a kind of redemption for all - players, club, supporters. It's symbolic as much as anything else, but potentially it's much more than that. We can be a pretty handy side in 2017.

I say that understanding very well an opposing opinion. It may be better for us in practical terms if some of the players decline to return, but that must be their decision. In all reality for some it will be not much more than the chance to end their career in familiar colours and out on the footy field, rather than out in the wilderness. I would expect Watson and Stanton to retire inside the next 2-3 years, and Howlett and Pears to be gone in the same time-frame, if not sooner. The same goes for Goddard. I’d happily ship off someone like Bird, who I think will be surplus to needs. There will be other players we turn over. It will all work out.

Beautifully said.

At first I agreed with SMJ and said we have an obligation to give the 12 extensions.

But why? Why the fk do we have to do that? Why does Tayte Pears who has done fk all for a LONG time deserve any more love or attention or sympathy than a Cory Dell, Henry Slattery or NLM? Tayte Pears gets 100k p year for doing very little for the last 3 years. And he’s getting paid this year for going on holiday. Cory has gone home, done a full pre-season for South Fremantle and got rubbed out for a year. NLM and Slatts can’t coach their fkg teams in woop woop for a lot of effort for fk all money cos we fkd up. Should we re-draft all three of them and give them a year as a sign of apologies and to line their pockets? Of course not.

Ideally, had they played this year, guys like Pears, Howlett, Stanton would all be forced out of the side, and IMO Watson would be playing full time forward. Pears, Howlett and possibly Stanton would be unlikely to be on the list in 2017 under usual circumstances. There’s your three delistings, who knows what happens to guys like Bellcho, Hocking and even Myers if he spent another year injured.

To be honest I would probably do what EFC is doing right now if I was in X Campbell’s shoes, but that’s not to say that I’m not worried about what it’ll do to our list and any long term damage.

Finally important to say that despite the above I have nothing but love, respect, care, sympathy and admiration for not just the 12 or even the 34 but every single player to ever play for EFC and I don’t for a second suggest that a guy like Pears has enjoyed his body not letting him do anything on the footy field for a long time nor would it be at all fun (or anything other than hell) to be banned this year. But I think the OP raises an important question.

At first I agreed with SMJ and said we have an obligation to give the 12 extensions.

But why? Why the fk do we have to do that? Why does Tayte Pears who has done fk all for a LONG time deserve any more love or attention or sympathy than a Cory Dell, Henry Slattery or NLM? Tayte Pears gets 100k p year for doing very little for the last 3 years. And he’s getting paid this year for going on holiday. Cory has gone home, done a full pre-season for South Fremantle and got rubbed out for a year. NLM and Slatts can’t coach their fkg teams in woop woop for a lot of effort for fk all money cos we fkd up. Should we re-draft all three of them and give them a year as a sign of apologies and to line their pockets? Of course not.

Ideally, had they played this year, guys like Pears, Howlett, Stanton would all be forced out of the side, and IMO Watson would be playing full time forward. Pears, Howlett and possibly Stanton would be unlikely to be on the list in 2017 under usual circumstances. There’s your three delistings, who knows what happens to guys like Bellcho, Hocking and even Myers if he spent another year injured.

To be honest I would probably do what EFC is doing right now if I was in X Campbell’s shoes, but that’s not to say that I’m not worried about what it’ll do to our list and any long term damage.

Finally important to say that despite the above I have nothing but love, respect, care, sympathy and admiration for not just the 12 or even the 34 but every single player to ever play for EFC and I don’t for a second suggest that a guy like Pears has enjoyed his body not letting him do anything on the footy field for a long time nor would it be at all fun (or anything other than hell) to be banned this year. But I think the OP raises an important question.

Bang on the money.
It’s a tough balancing act for Xavier Campbell, Dodoro, Worsfold and co. But from all the noises we keep hearing they are committing to giving a contract/extension to all 12. My common sense side tells me that’s not the best course of action to take to give us the best chance at regenerating our list and becoming a contender again but I can understand the sentiment of the ‘one in all in’ stuff.
Is there room for such sentimental decision making? I’m not sure.

Bizzare is the idea that we had a team worthy of challenging a few years ago - but then being worried about getting those same players back. I consider myself an optimist but we weren’t close to being a top 4 contender and the proof was in not how we played against Hawthorn, but how often we dropped leads (North Final as an example) and games to lesser clubs with regularity. We also lacked obvious fire power up forward.

Taking away the emotional side of getting the 12 back - I regard it important tactically…Having our stars come back and be playing with our quality kids is huge. Merrett, Tippa, Parish and Orazio have been sensational and will only grow around this kind of support.

This is also the year where we could make it count at the draft and could almost be jackets most important draft yet. Quality draft picks don’t mean as much without leadership…we have that in spades amongst the 12 out and players like Goddard.

Then theres real pressure to keep spots that top 4 sides have…if Howlett is getting a game, then you can be sure he will be earning it. Getting the 12 back also shows our resilience as a club and will make it more attractive for a young gun. Hypothetically if one of Redman/Langford/Francis/Eades turns into a dangerous forward (or we nab Patton) and draft another Parish/Heppell/Merrett…I can’t see why there isn’t anything but upside at the end. Draft cap is being increased…Yada, Yada…

It’s all a what if scenario. We’ll never know how good or bad any of the missing players would have been. For all we know something amazing could’ve happened and we snagged another Brownlow from someone and someone could’ve not played a game all year. It’s like a contract for Mercuri for six years, Hurley for five years, Knights for three, Goddard for four or Franklin for ten. We’ll not win on some and win out big time on the others.

Are we really worried about giving Pears, Hocking and Stants another year? What if those characters were vital to retain Heppell, Hurley and Hooker and as a group?

Do we really think Howlett and Stanton will offer us nothing? Even at worst they are dropped to VFL they add a quality of depth we haven’t yet had.

Pretty sure Stanton will be best 22…just sayin

Are we really worried about giving Pears, Hocking and Stants another year? What if those characters were vital to retain Heppell, Hurley and Hooker and as a group?

Do we really think Howlett and Stanton will offer us nothing? Even at worst they are dropped to VFL they add a quality of depth we haven’t yet had.

This. It’s like we think competition for spots is a bad thing; forces every player to earn their spot in the 22

No doubt the most common discussion amongst Essendon fans has been on the 12 players missing due to the CAS finding and obviously our hearts are with the other 22 guys either at other clubs, coaching or retired. There are many views on should all 12 comeback, would that be good for list management, salary cap and future success?…and who is important to retain and who is ok to get possible draft picks or open up spots for new draftees.? I haven’t commented too much on this as my personal view is everyone has a right to their opinion and most are coming from a place where they would love club success. I do want to state where I stand and why and I hope it comes across well. First of all I believe the salary cap is an ok spot to retain the 12 but we are clarifying more each day around AFL rules on compensation and cap.

I personally want though EVERY ONE OF THE 12 BACK wearing the Red Sash in 2017. This is not so much a list management decision for me but my club that I have followed for 35 years showing the spirit and character I think is required at this point of time to honour these 12 men. Common sense says every player has a choice and not all 12 coming back is guaranteed but I LOVE that the club is hell bent to have them all back and that is their priority over anything else. Dodoro said on SEN” There is not one person at the Essendon Football Club who doesn’t want all players(12) back” Best way you can truly move on is have a time to heal, re-gather and then have a common passion as a united group to succeed. From what I hear Worsfold has been instrumental in providing a clear exciting direction for these guys. I don’t think there will ever be a time on day one of a pre-season you will see 45 men with a resilient determination than this group in November 2016.

2017 for me will likely have the strongest playing list at Essendon since 2001 I would suggest. We have genuinely found 5 quality players already this year with the likes of Fantasia, Parish, Tippa. Langford & Leuenberger …not to mention we have Francis and Laverde still to come having injuries. No doubt a big weakness of ours in recent years was guys being able to break the lines with genuine speed so we can’t under estimate how big Tippa, Fantasia and Parish growth is for us….especially with overnight news of Colyer remaining and Zach Merrett becoming a star.

You need a deep midfield of about 10 players rotating through your team like the Hawks have shown so in 2017 our midfield could be Watson, Zaharakis, Myers, Heppell, Z. Merrett, Parish, Laverde, Colyer, Hocking & Fantasia. Now if that doesn’t get you excited not much will. It allows smart older Midfield players to setup in other parts of the ground to help fill gaps like Goddard, Stanton etc. Down back it gets even better, Hibberd, Hurley, Tippa, Gleeson, Baguley and Hartley. This setup allows what I think the club to do a strategic move to boost the forward setup. Francis is a very good forward as well as back and I know before CAS they were thinking of him as a forward…no doubt marking and reading the play is his strength. So now you can setup a forward line of Daniher, Francis, Hooker, Redman. If anything we are probably 1-2 smart small forwards short but hoping Eades can come on to fill one of those spots. We will have a low draft pick next year so will be interesting if they target a trade or kid.

I hope though you can see this list is building far better than I think externally many understand. The key ingredient in all this coming together though is having most of those 12 boys coming back. Talks are going very well as backed up by Dodoro yesterday morning…in fact he said he would be surprised if not all 12 came back . What those boys coming back gives the whole playing group, coaches and staff is a very strong passionate edge to have success and show a few that this club and playing group is proud and no doubt now VERY driven. Part of me wants Sept to hurry up to begin the process but saying that I am having fun watching our kids take the game on and improving week by week.

In what was said in media to be a miserable year for EFC, I can see information from club on 12, Colyer, Hocking signing already and our kids taking the next step to be far from that. There is a storm brewing folks

I’m torn between the sentiment and logic of it.

Sentiment backs up what you say.

logic says you can’t have both 12 senior players come back and continue to blood as many young developing players as we are able to this year.
which brings up how do you go next year If one of the 12 is playing poorly in the seniors ?
can you drop him, when you’re ultimately coaching from a position of guilt ?

then you have guys who want certain roles who may not want to settle for what is on offer now. Myers is the obvious one there, he supposedly has always wanted more midfield time, but who’s that going to come at the expense of, Zerrett ? parish ? etc etc.

While it’ll make us all feel warm and fuzzy that everything is “ok” if all 12 come back, logistically speaking I don’t think it’ll work if all 12 do.

I think we’ve got the makings of a pretty unstoppable midfield from the current group of kids we still have playing. IMO we should be best figuring out who fits in around them and will help fastrack their development.
not necessarily slow it down by removing them from midfield spots, or even senior spots, simply from a position of feeling of guilt.

Personally think it should come down to planning for the future first and foremost, work out ways in which individuals of the 12 can come back and play a role that you offer them.
If they don’t like that role, then obviously they should be free to search for one that best suits what they want out of football.
But again I can’t imagine any of the 12 would want a “lesser” role than what they had last year and beyond, so again logistically speaking I just don’t see it working if all 12 come back and want their senior spot back automatically.

If I was offered a contract and the club turned its back my mate Pears or Howlett I would tell the club to stick it up their ***.

We are morally obligated to those boys.

Club has already said all 12 will be offered new deals.

All 34 are being compensated already with payments and a negotiated settlement is coming,

If next year Stanton, Hibberd, TBell, Hocking, Howlett and Pears are all playing VFL, it will mean our AFL team is travelling OK.

Club has already said all 12 will be offered new deals.

All 34 are being compensated already with payments and a negotiated settlement is coming,

If next year Stanton, Hibberd, TBell, Hocking, Howlett and Pears are all playing VFL, it will mean our AFL team is travelling OK.

Absolutely spot on

This thread desperately needs a dose of reality but more importantly…

A BEST 22 FOR 2017!!!

B: Bags Hurley Brown
HB: Pig Hooker Francis
C: Colyer Watson Langford
HF: Raz Patton Laverde
TBell JoeDan Tippa

Ruck: Loonyberger Heppell, Zaka

Inter: Parish, Goddard, O’Meara, Myers

Lol Patton

B: Bags Hurley Pig
HB:Tippa Hooker Francis

C: Colyer Watson Merrett

HF: Raz Patton Laverde
Redman Daniher Eades

Ruck: L-berger Heppell, Zaka

Inter: Parish, Goddard, Langford, Myers

Emergencies: Number 1 draft pick, Longy, Howlett

haha…

Dont you mean cold, hard and totally illogical but same as usual position from Ants.
Some people have short memories. I was one of the ones arguing before 2014 and 2015 that the side was strong enough to challenge. But oh no, I've always been a misery guts.
Even back then you were a real hard case on players and coaches. You call it being realistic and while actually history has proved you mostly correct, I would rather be an happy optimistic who gets disappointed, than a pessimist who is then disappointed when they get it right !

We all just want the Team to win.


So pretty much you’re saying that even if you’re optimistic about the club and list, if you are critical of any element of the club its a problem? That seems like an unfair standard, and a bit of a strange way to term someone a pessimist.
I think we have an obligation to keep a list spot open for anyone who wants to return. I think from a spiritual/healing perspective also that we cannot afford to say no to any of them. This has been a journey. These have been banished from the club by forces beyond their control. The club itself is on its road to Damascus. The reunion of the club with players means much more than the addition of 12 players to the list. It's a joining once more in a common cause, the chance to re-write the narrative and seek a kind of redemption for all - players, club, supporters. It's symbolic as much as anything else, but potentially it's much more than that. We can be a pretty handy side in 2017.

I say that understanding very well an opposing opinion. It may be better for us in practical terms if some of the players decline to return, but that must be their decision. In all reality for some it will be not much more than the chance to end their career in familiar colours and out on the footy field, rather than out in the wilderness. I would expect Watson and Stanton to retire inside the next 2-3 years, and Howlett and Pears to be gone in the same time-frame, if not sooner. The same goes for Goddard. I’d happily ship off someone like Bird, who I think will be surplus to needs. There will be other players we turn over. It will all work out.

If I was offered a contract and the club turned its back my mate Pears or Howlett I would tell the club to stick it up their ***.

We are morally obligated to those boys.


A number of people have mentioned this, not just the two of you, that EFC has a moral obligation to the 12. Nobody seems to have replied to Peeto or I who pointed out that if that is the case, why don’t we have the same obligation to guys cut at the end of 2015, or even earlier?

Why only the moral obligation for the 12?

From the outside it appears the club has been incredibly reluctant to cut guys who were from the 2012 list unless it was incredibly obvious they weren’t up to it, which has potentially reduced the kids we have now. When should this stop?

Are we really worried about giving Pears, Hocking and Stants another year? What if those characters were vital to retain Heppell, Hurley and Hooker and as a group?

Do we really think Howlett and Stanton will offer us nothing? Even at worst they are dropped to VFL they add a quality of depth we haven’t yet had.


Although there is questions about some players worthiness to be on the list in 2017 (and apart from Pears I’d have named completely different players to you), the question is also on the contracts offered. If Hurley tries to renegotiate a contract that the club thinks is too much, do we just cave? If Hooker wants 5 years and the club only thinks he’s a sure thing for 3, do we offer him 5 to stay? If Howlett or Myers want extra years or more money than the club thinks they would have been worth?

Should the club give it to them?

And of course, if the answer to any of that is “no”, that the club can’t let itself be held over a barrell - then why doesn’t that apply to Pears getting a contract for 2017 he almost certainly doesn’t deserve?

So just to clarify, is the club offering new contracts to all 12, or merely honouring those contracts already signed and offering new contracts to those off-contract at the end of the year?

If it’s the latter, then there is only half of the 12 off contract at the end of this season now that Trav and Heater have re-upped (I’m taking this info from the contract thread so if it’s wrong don’t blame me :smile: )

Watson
Stanton
Pears
Myers
Hooker
Howlett

Watson, Stanton, Hooker and MAYBE Myers are probably the only ones who under normal circumstances would be offered new contracts, so essentially we’d be sacrificing 2 list spots for the sake of ‘morale’. Howlett and Pears would both be handy depth players at worst and I don’t thinks re-signing either would overly hurt our list management/development.

IMO.