If you feel you can't be a part of it because homosexual "behaviour" offends you, then don't.
You're not obliged to.
Personally, I don't like to go to church at Christmas because I don't really believe in it. When I do go, because it makes my family happy, I don't pretend I'm being accepting and reasonable by verbally ■■■■■■■■ all over their behaviour.
You are not obliged to protest my opnion either... but you do.
What I'm protesting is the idea that you're oppressed by the AFL letting the gay community feel welcome.
You can feel any way about homosexuals you please.
The above person has expressed their opinion and it is clearly in the minority, I am avoiding replying to him directly because he has had his say and his opinion being over represented is distorting this thread.
I don’t expect to change his opinion and I suppose we can be grateful that he professes tolerance for people he doesn’t agree with. Hopefully he can tolerate other peoples positivity without feeling the need to over represent his own unaccepting position on this issue.
(It was the above person when I started typing, now it’s the below person.)
Talking to me, to others as though im not here instead of directly engaging what you find false about what i am saying is kind of childish.
I maybe the minority, but that dosnt make my points any less relevant or truthful.
And it would be expected that i will represent my self strongly because i feel strongly about it and i have to make an attempt to answer any criticisms levelled toward what i have said.
Having irrelevant points makes your points less relevant.
I'm also not sure that you've represented anything strongly, except maybe your ignorance.
It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.
Whats being Gay got to do with wathcing the footy? This is what i dont get? is the afl representing all the fans personal views? no, so why should they be supporting anything that makes any such claims by supporting a round that creates a false dilemma that you either support homosexuality or you are a homophobe, they are not mutually exclusive.
The AFL supports people going to the football, there are currently no barriers for homosexuals to go to the football. Any other abusive hatred is dealt with by police, government or your solicitor.
You're being obtuse.
As I said earlier, it's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.
What's being a woman have to do with watching the footy?
What's being indigenous got to do with watching footy?
Getting sick of your false dilemma copy pasta, too.
If you don't support it, don't go.
If you don't support women's round, don't go to that either.
It's really okay, you're free to choose.
Your not obliged to get sick of it, might help if you recognise the issue, rather than just trying to sweep it under the rug.
Woman play a major background roll in a sport they do not get to participate in at the elite level, that is a recognition, not an acceptance or invitation.
The indigenous round is a recognition of the original owners of this land and there contribution to football.
With this round it is a recognition that some people are Gay? So what? no one cares if people are gay, it is so 1990's
A Tolerance round would be a much better way, and it could be combined with the Religious racial tolerance round idea that has been floating around, considering that is where most of the difference lies for the gay community from religion.
A round were it highlights through football that it is OK to disagree and not share the same view, (like disagreeing over which colour jumper the ball should go to) but not hating or being abusive to the person because of the jumper they wear. (or if they are black, Muslim or gay etc..)
There is no need for the gay round, a Tolerance round is a much better idea for a free democratic country that values opinions.
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about in your first sentence. None.
Then you go on to women's contribution etc. so I'll say it a third time, and this time I'll type slowly.
It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within the AFL.
You're welcome not to support it.
You're welcome to the opinion that there is no need for it.
The AFL, the gay community, and it would appear the broader community clearly want it.
Feel free to promote your tolerance round though. Could be a good idea.
Edit: Sounds a bit like multi-cultural round though, maybe get on board with them.
The above person has expressed their opinion and it is clearly in the minority, I am avoiding replying to him directly because he has had his say and his opinion being over represented is distorting this thread.
I don't expect to change his opinion and I suppose we can be grateful that he professes tolerance for people he doesn't agree with. Hopefully he can tolerate other peoples positivity without feeling the need to over represent his own unaccepting position on this issue.
You better promote a AFL round for me then.
Talking to me, to others as though im not here instead of directly engaging what you find false about what i am saying is kind of childish.
I maybe the minority, but that dosnt make my points any less relevant or truthful.
And it would be expected that i will represent my self strongly because i feel strongly about it and i have to make an attempt to answer any criticisms levelled toward what i have said.
I said you were entitled to your opinion, I just didn't want to engage with you because I have heard you enough, but I think your comment that I should promote a round just for you is indicative of your over inflated idea of the value of your opinion at the expense of everyone else's.
Now let's see if you can surprise me and quiet your need to over represent your opinion and let this thread reflect the BB community's attitude to this topic, and not just a conversation with you about your tolerant opinion that you feel so strongly about that you can't let us celebrate this idea that our club is supporting and makes us proud.
But there are NO BARRIERS to homosexuals playing football, going to the football, being umpires, making footballs, being football reporters...NO BARRIERS!
I've read a lot of statistics estimating the percentage of the population that is homosexual to be between 3% (which I suspect is too low) and 20% (which I suspect is too high). Taking the number to be a conservative 5% for the sake of argument, the probability that we don't have a single gay player on our team is only 9.45%. There's a 70.8% that we have between one and three gay players.
Extending that analysis out across 18 teams, the probability that there's not a single gay player in the league is 35 billionths of a billionth of a percent. The odds of having between 20 and 70 gay players is 99.999%.
So who are these gay players? No idea? Me either. That means that of the 20 to 70 gay men currently playing AFL, not a single one of them is comfortable coming out as being openly gay. Or even worse, it means gay men feel so unwanted/unwelcome by the football playing community, that the 20 to 70 men who you would statistically expect to being football are not even playing football.
Either way, there is clearly a problem with homophobia in football.
I think I can cut to the chase for Aaron.
Yes its about acceptance and not tolerance.
Tolerence implies some type of superiority on your behalf.
Thanks,
So why should someone going to the football have to have others ideas forced upon them at the football? it is not sports place to force opnions and views upon the supporter, it is kind of like having a Evangalical preacher that you have to sit through before watching football, even though you dont agree with it, and that is why there is no preachers before games.
There is nothing to recognise, nothing to accept. There are gay people and then there is football, i dont see any reason to accommodate a special round for someone's sexual preference.
The suicide rate is the reason for me. If that can be improved. Why not.
Gay footballers cant associate with their loved ones in an AFL social setting eg say a Brownlow Medal for fear of derision.
It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.
Whats being Gay got to do with wathcing the footy? This is what i dont get? is the afl representing all the fans personal views? no, so why should they be supporting anything that makes any such claims by supporting a round that creates a false dilemma that you either support homosexuality or you are a homophobe, they are not mutually exclusive.
The AFL supports people going to the football, there are currently no barriers for homosexuals to go to the football. Any other abusive hatred is dealt with by police, government or your solicitor.
You're being obtuse.
As I said earlier, it's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.
What's being a woman have to do with watching the footy?
What's being indigenous got to do with watching footy?
Getting sick of your false dilemma copy pasta, too.
If you don't support it, don't go.
If you don't support women's round, don't go to that either.
It's really okay, you're free to choose.
Your not obliged to get sick of it, might help if you recognise the issue, rather than just trying to sweep it under the rug.
Woman play a major background roll in a sport they do not get to participate in at the elite level, that is a recognition, not an acceptance or invitation.
The indigenous round is a recognition of the original owners of this land and there contribution to football.
With this round it is a recognition that some people are Gay? So what? no one cares if people are gay, it is so 1990's
A Tolerance round would be a much better way, and it could be combined with the Religious racial tolerance round idea that has been floating around, considering that is where most of the difference lies for the gay community from religion.
A round were it highlights through football that it is OK to disagree and not share the same view, (like disagreeing over which colour jumper the ball should go to) but not hating or being abusive to the person because of the jumper they wear. (or if they are black, Muslim or gay etc..)
There is no need for the gay round, a Tolerance round is a much better idea for a free democratic country that values opinions.
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about in your first sentence. None.
Then you go on to women's contribution etc. so I'll say it a third time, and this time I'll type slowly.
It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within the AFL.
You're welcome not to support it.
You're welcome to the opinion that there is no need for it.
The AFL, the gay community, and it would appear the broader community clearly want it.
Feel free to promote your tolerance round though. Could be a good idea.
Edit: Sounds a bit like multi-cultural round though, maybe get on board with them.
The first sentance harks back to what you said earlier about me not being obliged.
You are not obliged to be bothered by my opnion, you can just not reply, the same way you suggested i not go to the football on homophobe round. ..anyway its impact is lost and i can see how it didnt make sense.
But there are NO BARRIERS to homosexuals playing football, going to the football, being umpires, making footballs, being football reporters...NO BARRIERS! It is like having a round to declare that people who dont like meat pies and hot chips can still come to the football and will be accepted.
To me, It is stupid.
I dont support it.
I have the opinion which is well supported by reason. plus the lack of reason behind the idea, it is just a band wagon idea.
The broader community wanted tony abbot as PM, im sure he supports Gay footballers too.
Thank you, there is definitely a place for the Gay community in a Tolerance round, absolutely, i would never want to see a round with out there contribution, and that is where it belongs, 1 it makes more sense, 2 we wil be so crammed with causes on rounds they will strart to lose significance.
Well the Gay community is a culture in reality, so maybe they already could be recognised there.
I get that you don't support it.
We all do.
What you want is validation, though. That your opinion is right.
That you shouldn't have to put up with the AFL and gay community having this round because you (and certainly some other people) don't agree with it.
You're not going to get that validation. I think you've probably noticed that by now.
I personally think people should base their beliefs on what religion says.
Interestingly the Catholic Church also once said the world was flat, burnt people at the stake, supported Nazi Germany, started wars that have killed hundreds of thousands, preaches against the use of contraception which in parts of Africa has a direct impact on the transmission of AIDS and protected rock spiders.
But hey I am sure they know what they are talking about.
Interestingly I don’t ■■■■■ and moan at Christmas and Easter when I am told highly improbable stories about an ancient Jew.
Don't mind the concept (although I too share the fear that eventually we will have themed every round and it all means nothing anymore) but the choice of purple is just nonsensical. I know what it represents to the gay community, but not in the AFL it doesn't. In the AFL the first thought re purple is Freo. Why not use the gay rainbow colours or something. Associating yourself with purple in the AFL has already been done.Fair enough idea, but I can't get passed "Freo way to go ..... etc etc etc.
Fantastic to see Essendon getting behind this. It would great that one day a gay bloke can sit at the footy without hearing the words f***** or p***** thrown over the fence. It will be an even greater day that a gay footballer can play without the fear of those same words being thrown over the fence and can sit in the locker room with their team mates and not have them to scared to change in front of him(cos every gay bloke is what's in your pants right?).
I have many gay friends and they say that Homophobia is now worse than what it was 10 years ago. I support anything that can be done to wipe it out.
Is Homophobia really even a issue? I dont see any, dont hear of any... i just dont get it?
I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.
But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections.
If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?
Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance. Which are very 2 diffrent things. And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it.
At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined.
As gay kids are still called f***ots, p***ters, sissies, etc, and made to feel lesser for being who they are it is still an issue. As gay kids are still six times more likely to commit suicide, yes, it is still an issue.
If my formerly bigoted and homophobic father can do a 180 on his views and not just "tolerate" but accept me, then there's a lot of hope.
Good on you bomberjase! Times are changing and it's great to see.
So where is the link between Gay suicide and being called a name? otherwise we would see the same stat in fat kids. There is no link.
i dont know what your dad has to do with it.
Is Homophobia really even a issue? I dont see any, dont hear of any... i just dont get it?
I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.
But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections.
If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?
Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance. Which are very 2 diffrent things. And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it.
At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined.
As gay kids are still called f***ots, p***ters, sissies, etc, and made to feel lesser for being who they are it is still an issue. As gay kids are still six times more likely to commit suicide, yes, it is still an issue.
If my formerly bigoted and homophobic father can do a 180 on his views and not just "tolerate" but accept me, then there's a lot of hope.
Good on you bomberjase! Times are changing and it's great to see.
So where is the link between Gay suicide and being called a name? otherwise we would see the same stat in fat kids. There is no link.
Is Homophobia really even a issue? I dont see any, dont hear of any... i just dont get it?
I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.
But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections.
If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?
Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance. Which are very 2 diffrent things. And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it.
At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined.
Homophobia will be 100% wiped out around the same time racism is 100% wiped out. ie: Never
I have to be honest, I don't see a lot of it myself personally but there is no doubt it is very well prevalent in the community. You only have to look at some of the reaction of people to the image of the NBA recruit kissing his partner after he got drafted last week. Some people were offended by it, not sure why, but they were.
I felt that was a more a issue about discretion, than a fear or hatred of gays. That those who object to it, felt they where somehow having it shoved down there throats by the media concentrating on it so hard.
Kind of a reverse homophobia, where instead of it just being a man in a draft, it was suddenly a gay man in a draft, but if Gays are just a normal part of our soceity, the gay part in the NFL draft should just be a none issue, since when have the media hanged around a draftee in the 4th round pick at 249? this guy will be lucky to get a game. And i actually worry the club might play him because he is gay strangely enough for marketing reasons, im overly cynical about these things.
Go back and see where he was predicted to be drafted before coming out. Kid will play. He's a beast.
Soon as he came out, his predicted draft number spiraled, and coaches started talking about the "baggage" he was bringing.
