Bomber Pride - Purple Bombers

Football Discussion Dustin Fletcher Hangar
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Is Homophobia really even a issue?  I dont see any, dont hear of any...  i just dont get it? 

 

I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.

 But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections. 

 

If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?

 

Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance.   Which are very 2 diffrent things.   And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it. 

 

At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined. 

 

As gay kids are still called f***ots, p***ters, sissies, etc, and made to feel lesser for being who they are it is still an issue. As gay kids are still six times more likely to commit suicide, yes, it is still an issue. 

 

If my formerly bigoted and homophobic father can do a 180 on his views and not just "tolerate" but accept me, then there's a lot of hope.

 

Good on you bomberjase! Times are changing and it's great to see.

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Is Homophobia really even a issue?  I dont see any, dont hear of any...  i just dont get it? 

 

I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.

 But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections. 

 

If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?

 

Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance.   Which are very 2 diffrent things.   And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it. 

 

At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined. 

 

As gay kids are still called f***ots, p***ters, sissies, etc, and made to feel lesser for being who they are it is still an issue. As gay kids are still six times more likely to commit suicide, yes, it is still an issue. 

 

If my formerly bigoted and homophobic father can do a 180 on his views and not just "tolerate" but accept me, then there's a lot of hope.

 

Good on you bomberjase! Times are changing and it's great to see.

 

So where is the link between Gay suicide and being called a name?  otherwise we would see the same stat in fat kids. There is no link. 

 

i dont know what your dad has to do with it. 

 

Honestly mate, getting called a 'name' as you so dismissively put it, for your teenaged years equates to bullying and that definitely relates to suicide. How people are so blissfully ignorant I don't understand.

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Is Homophobia really even a issue?  I dont see any, dont hear of any...  i just dont get it? 

 

I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.

 But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections. 

 

If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?

 

Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance.   Which are very 2 diffrent things.   And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it. 

 

At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined. 

Homophobia will be 100% wiped out around the same time racism is 100% wiped out. ie: Never

 

I have to be honest, I don't see a lot of it myself personally but there is no doubt it is very well prevalent in the community. You only have to look at some of the reaction of people to the image of the NBA recruit kissing his partner after he got drafted last week. Some people were offended by it, not sure why, but they were.

 

I felt that was a more  a issue about discretion, than a fear or hatred of gays. That those who object to it, felt they where somehow having it shoved down there throats by the media concentrating on it so hard.  

Kind of a reverse homophobia, where instead of it just being a man in a draft, it was suddenly a gay man in a draft, but if Gays are just a normal part of our soceity, the gay part in the NFL draft should just be a none issue, since when have the media hanged around a draftee in the 4th round pick at 249?  this guy will be lucky to get a game.   And i actually worry the club might play him because he is gay strangely enough for marketing reasons, im overly cynical about these things. 

 

 

The problem is that gay people are not considered a normal part of our society. There's still a stigma attached to it.

 

Why do you think it is that no AFL player has ever come out as gay? Statistically there would be dozens, if not hundreds of gay footballers in the history of the game to have played at the highest level. Yet none have ever publicly identified themselves.

 

As long as people feel the need to hide an important part of their identity due to fear of persecution then we, as a society, still have a problem. That's why initiatives such as this are important.

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Azza, give it a rest mate.

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Is Homophobia really even a issue?  I dont see any, dont hear of any...  i just dont get it? 

 

I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.

 But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections. 

 

If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?

 

Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance.   Which are very 2 diffrent things.   And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it. 

 

At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined. 

Homophobia will be 100% wiped out around the same time racism is 100% wiped out. ie: Never

 

I have to be honest, I don't see a lot of it myself personally but there is no doubt it is very well prevalent in the community. You only have to look at some of the reaction of people to the image of the NBA recruit kissing his partner after he got drafted last week. Some people were offended by it, not sure why, but they were.

 

I felt that was a more  a issue about discretion, than a fear or hatred of gays. That those who object to it, felt they where somehow having it shoved down there throats by the media concentrating on it so hard.  

Kind of a reverse homophobia, where instead of it just being a man in a draft, it was suddenly a gay man in a draft, but if Gays are just a normal part of our soceity, the gay part in the NFL draft should just be a none issue, since when have the media hanged around a draftee in the 4th round pick at 249?  this guy will be lucky to get a game.   And i actually worry the club might play him because he is gay strangely enough for marketing reasons, im overly cynical about these things. 

 

 

The problem is that gay people are not considered a normal part of our society. There's still a stigma attached to it.

 

Why do you think it is that no AFL player has ever come out as gay? Statistically there would be dozens, if not hundreds of gay footballers in the history of the game to have played at the highest level. Yet none have ever publicly identified themselves.

 

As long as people feel the need to hide an important part of their identity due to fear of persecution then we, as a society, still have a problem. That's why initiatives such as this are important.

 

But isnt this thinking that someone has to announce to the world what they are attracted too somehow the problem?  It is a private thing, there is no obligation to tell someone you are gay, or any real need to.   I see it equivilent to having to list of every sexual experience you have had to a new GF. 

IT is just a non issue, and a personal one at that, and that is why you probably dont see heaps of AFL players past and present coming out, because it is non of our buisness. 

You dont need a special round for it. 

 

It's not just about sex, though. It's an important part of some people's identity. As Prosit mentioned earlier, there are a lot of young men in our country who are suffering and feeling alienated because they fear that they will be rejected by the community if they identify as gay. Some of this suffering might be alleviated by groups such as the AFL (and particularly AFL players) making public statements in support of the gay community. I don't understand why you would deny them this opportunity.

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Is Homophobia really even a issue? I dont see any, dont hear of any... i just dont get it?
I have heard of it in the past, homosexual's being attacked either physically or verbally for there predilections, which i agree is wrong.
But i just dont see it anymore or as an issue, or if it is it is of little concern, rarely in the last 10years have i heard any assaults in the news based around one sexual predilections.
If by 2015 homophobia (i struggle to even know what that means exactly?) is wiped out 100%, would this game still be going ahead?
Im only for it if the focus is on Tolerance, not acceptance. Which are very 2 diffrent things. And this feels like it comes across as you have to accept or you will be labelled homophobic, which seems really unfair to those who may believe otherwise who dont fear and or abuse Homosexuals physically or verbally, just simply dont agree with it.
At this stage i would ask the club not to support it, until its cause is more clearly outlined.


As gay kids are still called f***ots, p***ters, sissies, etc, and made to feel lesser for being who they are it is still an issue. As gay kids are still six times more likely to commit suicide, yes, it is still an issue.
If my formerly bigoted and homophobic father can do a 180 on his views and not just "tolerate" but accept me, then there's a lot of hope.
Good on you bomberjase! Times are changing and it's great to see.
From my experience most of the kids name calling is exactly that. Some of the kids even use it affectionately. I have to pull my son up on it all the time, just tonight again I heard him on the phone to his best mate and his parting conversation was " seeya tomoz ya gay c**t".
At footy training Thursday nights I help out some weeks and the word gay or ■■■ would be used 100 times a night. I dont think there is any malice or hate intended its just the way kids speak to each other. I dont think he understands that some people are offended by it but its becoming more common IMO.
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Can I suggest the following. Aaronjohns1 we get it that you’re not into this concept, and we support your right to hold a differing opinion to the consensus view. So let’s create a new thread, sort of like the Lid On thread, where your discussion can have a forum and leave this thread to those of us who would like to simply celebrate this initiative with bomberjase. This thread has a nice positive mojo about it, so even if you find us a bit misguided why not let us have our fun (… er, a bit like gay marriage I spose)

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Azza, give it a rest mate.

I know where your coming from, but i think it is important.  
I think alot of people dont know the difference between tolerance and acceptance. 
There is no obligation for people to accept homosexual behaviour nor should there be as that would undermine peoples freedom. 
But there is an obligation to not assault or abuse homosexuals because of that predilection. 
And that is Tolerance.  
The way this homphobe round is presented is that if you disagree with it, you are a homophobe and you should stop it, it is a forced acceptance, as opposed to tolerance which i reject.  
This is not based on my personal views of homosexuals, but my views on people being able to have beliefs and express them in a non violent or abusive way, and i feel this Purple bomber idea attacks that. 
I would like to hear from the organisers that this is not about accepting homosexual community, rather one of tolerance.
absit iniuria verbisg

Homosexuality is not a behaviour.
I'm really not understanding your other arguments at all. How does having this round stop anyone believing whatever they want to believe? It's about not being an asshat to someone who's gay. I can't see anything but good in this.
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Sigh.

Let's all get behind a game for "not accepting homosexual community."

 

Seriously, theyr'e here, they're ■■■■■, get used to it.

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In my teens I was an ignorant idiot who despised homosexuality. I was vocal. I was a fool.

 

In my late teens I met a man through a mutual friend who was openly gay and he listened to me and then he showed me his heart. He taught me that sexuality means nothing. The only thing that matters is who you are on the inside and the empathy you show towards your fellow man. In the years that followed he became a great friend before the tyranny of distance separated us.

 

What the AFL is doing here is incredibly important. Because it's not about Homosexuality, it's about humanity. Unfortunately there are many people who are still ignorant of this fact, and if footy can bring down these walls then we are all richer for it.

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In my teens I was an ignorant idiot who despised homosexuality. I was vocal. I was a fool.
In my late teens I met a man through a mutual friend who was openly gay and he listened to me and then he showed me his heart. He taught me that sexuality means nothing. The only thing that matters is who you are on the inside and the empathy you show towards your fellow man. In the years that followed he became a great friend before the tyranny of distance separated us.
What the AFL is doing here is incredibly important. Because it's not about Homosexuality, it's about humanity. Unfortunately there are many people who are still ignorant of this fact, and if footy can bring down these walls then we are all richer for it.


Thanks bombermick for summing up why this is so important. It is about making sure gay people know they're valued and accepted, not just tolerated.
I am again so proud of my club for being open to a celebration of gay pride and encourage gay people to be happy about being who they are, and not be down on themselves because they have trouble accepting themselves because they are worried that society doesn't accept and value them.
Well done bombers, I hope this doesn't get held up by any obstructionists. I used to be a health educator and it was amazing how minority conservative zealots could impose their will on the progressive majority and hold up education programs which aimed to be supportive of same sex attracted young people. Just look at all the blocking of gay marriage despite majority support for it.
Don the purple sash.
53

Ffs aj give it a rest

Did you sign up just to post on this topic?

You start by saying you need to hear more details and last post finish with ‘I’m against it’

This is very important, I support this great idea

I’d yiu don’t fine, but please stop posting your same contradictory posts and by pass the game

Don the purple sash

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When I posted in this thread last night before I went to bed, I was pleased, and surprised, that nobody had come in here and started being a clown.
Homophobia might not be as big a problem as it used to be, but if you can't see that it's still a problem (or even understand what it is) then you're being willfully ignorant.

 

I've read a lot of statistics estimating the percentage of the population that is homosexual to be between 3% (which I suspect is too low) and 20% (which I suspect is too high). Taking the number to be a conservative 5% for the sake of argument, the probability that we don't have a single gay player on our team is only 9.45%. There's a 70.8% that we have between one and three gay players.
Extending that analysis out across 18 teams, the probability that there's not a single gay player in the league is 35 billionths of a billionth of a percent. The odds of having between 20 and 70 gay players is 99.999%.

 

So who are these gay players? No idea? Me either. That means that of the 20 to 70 gay men currently playing AFL, not a single one of them is comfortable coming out as being openly gay. Or even worse, it means gay men feel so unwanted/unwelcome by the football playing community, that the 20 to 70 men who you would statistically expect to being football are not even playing football.

 

Either way, there is clearly a problem with homophobia in football.

 

Outside of football, but still inside Australia, gay men and women still can't get married. As recently as 2004 the Howard government amended the marriage act to define marriage as being between a man an a woman. When Campbell Newman became premier in Queensland he repealed the laws that the previous government had put in place to allow gay couple to marry. All the couples who had been married under the old laws got a letter in the mail telling them that they weren't married anymore.
As other posters have pointed out, young gay men are six times more likely to commit suicide. 

 

There is clearly a problem with homophobia in Australia.

 

Outside of Australia, there are parts of the world where lesbians are subjected to "corrective rape," to "cure" them of them homosexuality. Men and women are murdered for being gay.

 

Homophobia is a problem. It is a very real problem. I, for one, am proud that the Essendon Football Club has chosen to get this behind this initiative, and I hope that it goes on to be as big a success as Dreamtime at the G/the indigenous round.

 

 

There is no obligation for people to accept homosexual behaviour nor should there be as that would undermine peoples freedom. 

The way this homphobe round is presented is that if you disagree with it, you are a homophobe and you should stop it, it is a forced acceptance, as opposed to tolerance which i reject. 

 

I hope one day you have gay children, and you look back on this and realise how much of a muppet you sound like.

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Thank you everyone for your postive response.  Means the world.  Our club is awesome.

You have my support too.

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Azza, give it a rest mate.

I know where your coming from, but i think it is important.  
I think alot of people dont know the difference between tolerance and acceptance. 
There is no obligation for people to accept homosexual behaviour nor should there be as that would undermine peoples freedom. 
But there is an obligation to not assault or abuse homosexuals because of that predilection. 
And that is Tolerance.  
The way this homphobe round is presented is that if you disagree with it, you are a homophobe and you should stop it, it is a forced acceptance, as opposed to tolerance which i reject.  
This is not based on my personal views of homosexuals, but my views on people being able to have beliefs and express them in a non violent or abusive way, and i feel this Purple bomber idea attacks that. 
I would like to hear from the organisers that this is not about accepting homosexual community, rather one of tolerance.
absit iniuria verbisg

Homosexuality is not a behaviour.
I'm really not understanding your other arguments at all. How does having this round stop anyone believing whatever they want to believe? It's about not being an asshat to someone who's gay. I can't see anything but good in this.

 

Im happy to get into a debate about what homosexuality is, but the thread is not about that. 

The round does not stop people believing what they believe, that will always carry on.

Im not against it, if the round is about tolerance, and not hating a person because they are gay.

 

Im against it because it appears to create a false dilemma that either you support the Gay community or you are a homophobe, which is not the case. 

Alot of people reject homosexual practices as wrong, yet they are not homophobes, ie: they dont fear gay people or hate them because they are gay..  

It seems the angle of the idea is intolerant of people who hold those beliefs. 

That is why i am asking if the idea can be made more clear as to what its cause is exactly. 

 

 

It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.

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There is no obligation for people to accept homosexual behaviour nor should there be as that would undermine peoples freedom. 

The way this homphobe round is presented is that if you disagree with it, you are a homophobe and you should stop it, it is a forced acceptance, as opposed to tolerance which i reject. 

 

I hope one day you have gay children, and you look back on this and realise how much of a muppet you sound like.

Because having gay children is a curse?  that sounds homophobic.

 

 

It's not a curse, and it wasn't meant to be one. I was suggesting that it would hopefully allow you to develop a little empathy, which you clearly lack. 

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If you feel you can't be a part of it because homosexual "behaviour" offends you, then don't.

You're not obliged to.

Personally, I don't like to go to church at Christmas because I don't really believe in it.  When I do go, because it makes my family happy, I don't pretend I'm being accepting and reasonable by verbally ■■■■■■■■ all over their behaviour.

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It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.

 

Whats being Gay got to do with wathcing the footy?  This is what i dont get?  is the afl representing all the fans personal views?  no, so why should they be supporting anything that makes any such claims by supporting a round that creates a false dilemma that you either support homosexuality or you are a homophobe, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

The AFL supports people going to the football, there are currently no barriers for homosexuals to go to the football.  Any other abusive hatred is dealt with by police, government or your solicitor. 

 

 

You're being obtuse.

As I said earlier, it's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.

 

What's being a woman have to do with watching the footy?

What's being indigenous got to do with watching footy?

 

Getting sick of your false dilemma copy pasta, too.

If you don't support it, don't go.

If you don't support women's round, don't go to that either.

It's really okay, you're free to choose.

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It's about publicly declaring that people attracted to the same sex are welcome within AFL generally, as supporters, players, staff, whatever.

 

Whats being Gay got to do with wathcing the footy?  This is what i dont get?  is the afl representing all the fans personal views?  no, so why should they be supporting anything that makes any such claims by supporting a round that creates a false dilemma that you either support homosexuality or you are a homophobe, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

The AFL supports people going to the football, there are currently no barriers for homosexuals to go to the football.  Any other abusive hatred is dealt with by police, government or your solicitor. 

 

 

Alright, since you don't seem to be grasping this:

 

What's being indigenous got to do with watching the footy?  This is what I don't get. Is the AFL representing all the fan's personal views?  No, so why should they be supporting anything that makes any such claims? Why support a round that creates a false dilemma: that you either support aborigines or you are a racist. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

The AFL supports people going to the football, there are currently no barriers for indigenous people to go to the football.  Any other abusive hatred is dealt with by police, government or your solicitor.

 

So by that logic, we should get rid of Dreamtime at the G, because it's creating a false dilemma.