How good are bikes.
Wrong thread but I love going for a cycle. Brings a smile to my face every time (well when riding early morning when the roads are quiet)
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Mot at my age, even an electric bike could get me up my driveway. I am good for the shape I am in though
Are they cooler when getting into car parked in sun on hot day?
Maybe, but if you have a Tesla you can have the interior cooled down ready to jump in.
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Cars are never usually if ever an investment anyway, its usually a long term purcahse and the price is only relevant to what they are worth in the market at that at that time. It just comes down to what you want and if you are paying a fair price at that time
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some of that is definitely by design too, EV cars are more of an appliance, the iphonisation of the category, I too waiver a little between full ev and a great hybrid for next purchase, good experiences with hybrids but carrying two motors around hurts the brain, tesla as best value ev is ruined by the farkwit in charge, canāt just choose the car i think looks best anymore 
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The government is making it cheap to lease and flip EVs, thereās a cheap second hand market too developing.
I think the choice is really starting to be about what suits circumstance rather than cost.
If you want to kiss the petrol station goodbye and do your bit with a cleaner car thereās a car for you.
If you canāt kiss the petrol station goodbye thereās still more and more very economical cars available - not just little city cars.
And lastly car companies are still making specialist lifestyle vehicles(4x4, sports cars, luxury vehicles etc) a plenty.
I do think cars overall feel very expensive. But part of that I think is cos so much money is going towards rent or the mortgage.
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I was a Tesla man but will not buy one now because of that traitor. Wonāt buy Chinese because they spy on eveyone and I am concerned that as I live near the beach it would rust out in a year. Leaves very little options, maybe Kia or Hyundia
Yah definitely considering a lease option, maybe next year sometime unless government changes the current system which makes it a far more feasible option
Definitely, I think when I get to it Iāll take Bacchus advice and go try a bunch of them, Iām unashamedly partial to an SUV so y v ev5 lead on the pre test list
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Donāt laugh.
But Jeep Avenger.
Or the Volvo ex30
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Here are my thoughts around the topics covered over the last few days.
The question mark over if an EV is right for you depends on your personal circumstances. The first consideration is charging:
1: If you have off-street parking near your house or a garage I think it is a no-brainer UNLESS you regularly travel more than 500km in a day. In this circumstance you simply plug in whenever your car is at home. You probably dont even need a home charger. This probably covers around 70% of people.
2: If you have no access to home charging the decision gets more complicated and depends on use and public infrastucture in your area. I think an EV makes sense for if one or more of the following boxes are ticked:
a) You do low kmās so would only need to charge once every week or two.
b) Your work has chargers or the ability to plug in while there.
c) Your supermarket or local shops that you goto once or twice a week has reliable access to fast chargers so you can top up every time you head for a coffee or a weekly shop etc.
d) Or you dont mind having to wait 10 to 30 mins to charge your car up as needed.
Depreciation and new tech around the corner has also been raised as concerns for buying an EV. Firstly, there will always be new tech, breakthroughs, advances, etc. The solid state batteries we are hearing about today might take 5 or more years to become mainstream. If you bought a car today, you would be looking at that tech for your next car.
The depreciation is real but its looking at the problem in isolation without looking at the bigger picture which turns the equation around completely. I have a real world example of my own situation:
I have a top spec Santa Fe that I got in 2022 on novated lease. For simplicity sake lets say that 50% of payments come out of pre-tax dollars and 50% are post tax on the car that cost $72k.
Iāve got a 4 year lease and pay approximately $230 pre-tax and $230 post tax that covers the car payments, maintenaince, insurance, rego, fuel, detailing, tyres, etc. I travel around 25,000km per year. This works out to around $24k per year, with $12k coming out of pre tax dollars reducing my taxable income which at my bracket is 37%. This in real terms means the $12k pre-tax only costs me around $7.5k. So I am better off by 4.5k per year or $18k over the life of the lease. So just under $20k per year real cost to me.
At the end of the lease I intend to buy the car for $26k and sell it for 40 to 45k depending on its value in 18 months time. This represents a depreciation of 25 to 30k over the 4 years but its only 1 part of the cost equation for the car. The fuel alone costs around $4000 per year. Thatās $16k in the 4 years. So we are up to 40 to 45k the car has cost me just counting depreciation and fuel!
Letās now look at an EV. I am looking at a ZEEKR X for my wife. The top spec is close to $70k drive away. Thanks to government incentives we can pay for the lease 100% out of pre-tax dollars. So the quote I have is just under $360 per week which costs me in real terms under $220 per week on a 5 year lease. So around $11k real cost to me per year. Do we see where this is going?
So, the ICE car is costing me $20k per year and I can sell it for $45k (lets go high, I doubt I will get that). So after 4 years the car has cost me 80k + the buyout price of $26k = $106k and I sell it for $45k for a total loss of $61k over 4 years. Or $15k per year. Ouch!
The EV on the other hand costs me $11k per year with a buyout cost of 20k (I realise this is over 5 years vs 4 but it still paints the picture). So after 5 years its $55k + $20k buyout = $75k. So 75k over 5 years is 15k per year. So I could sell the car for $0 and still break even with the ICE car. Or I could choose to not buy the car for $20k which drops the cost of the car to $55k over 5 years which is $11k per year vs $15k for the ICE. So I am better off by 4k per year. If the value of the EV is higher than 20k, lets say I could sell it for $25k then the equation gets even better.
So ignore the depreciation argument IF you can get a novated lease. Even if the car is worth nothing you are still miles ahead!
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The value proposition gets even better if you have solar and a car with V2G and V2H capabilities. With a bi-directional charger (should be affordable options coming in the next 12 to 24 months) you can use your car as a massive home battery.
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Yep and the reason you can sell the ev so cheap I think is why thereās a healthy second hand market for EVs.
Those propeller head accountants in canberra(or their consultants) know what they are doing!
Solid state batteries are at least 2030 away. The big players all came out and said that this year.
The closest is a Chinese mob I believe.
Itās at least one cycle of car away for those people who like to lease new and flip.
Do you know if the lease deals are the same for a Hybrid? Or is it BEV only?
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Yes, and in addition you can lease the car again at the end instead of buying it or giving it back. The new lease will be based on the depreciated value of the car and cost less. So the first 5 years in the above EV example was based on a 70k value car. The next 3 year lease will be based on 20k value. Which means lower repayments and lower car cost.
I think solid state batteries are closer than 2030 but who knows. It is not only the development of the battery but also the productionising it in both the manufacturing and in the car. I guess my point getting the battery working is just a small part of it so you may be very well right with 2030. Also solid state batteries are not a mandatory at this point. They do eliminate any fire risk but this can be done through the use of other materials like sodium instead of lithium
My friends sons who work at Tesla , one in Texas and one here, both say that while Tesla Powerwall storage will probably become sodium ion batteries, it is doubtful Tesla will move away from Lithium in their cars, unless they can make sodium batteries of a compatible shape.
Donāt actually understand what it means but they said that they currently cannot make sodium batteries in cylinders??
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The 4680 battery is a cylinder and as it is a structural battery pack the cylinder shape would be an integral part of the design. I wasnāt aware of the difficulty in getting sodium ion batteries to fit into the design and provide the required energy density but i think you are 100% correct. There have been challenges in getting sodium batteries to the required energy density levels so far so from what you have said we may have to wait a while longer.
Some clever boffins will have a breakthrough and it will probably happen sooner.
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True, wonāt be me involved in the discovery though. I am losing the little brain power i had lol