We'll see how good we are or can be when we play North. We have a lot of inside 50's for minimal conversions, if we can remedy that we'll win, if we don't we'll lose and they have players who can kick goals.
We will need to be at our best and come to play from the outset.
■■■■ north
Win/loss ratio comparison between 2013 and 2014 is not defendable. The draw changes and list changes kill the theory. Almost as daft as ‘free kicks should be even’.
WE HAVE NOT IMPROVED TILL WE BEAT MELBOURNE
Oh ■■■■ I just remembered how lacklustre pathetic and lazy our entire squad was that day
■■■■ THIS TEAM.
As with everything, tis our you take it and move forward.I think we've improved.
But so has everybody else.
Win a final, and our win / loss this year is irrelevant.
If you take it you can half arse your way through the year and win a final or two, then it's not really going to be beneficial.
take it as a foundation for bigger and better things, while needing to still work hard on all areas, then anything is possible.
A win this week shoulnd't detract from the fact this year like most recently was full of wasted oppotunities to give us a better chance of going deep into the finals. Wins against the Saints, melb richmond and Carlton could have seen us playing for top 4 spot instead of scraping into the finals yet again on questionable form.
A win this week doesn't or shouldn't hide the fact we still have so far to go it's not funny anymore.
You need to make your mind up. Are we:
A.) an ordinary club who is far below where our supporters rate us. Or.
B.) a top 4 side who is underperforming.
Because you seem to chop and change when it suits you. When you've decided, let me know, and I'll be happy to discuss.
I try not to deal in absolutes anymore, well if I ever did.
no one can honestly say we are something, because we still haven't found any consistency across games, let alone seasons.
We have the potential to be a top 4 side, we also have the potential to be a bottom 8 side.
However I stand by 1 game shouldn't rule the rest of the season as irrelevant. Carlton won a final last year after finishing 9th, what did that prove
I don't think i've ever said we are ordinary either. no doubt certain parts of our supporter base over exaggerate certain players and where we are as a club, which is true, for a club that' best finish now is 7th in 10 years I think that's a given we over exaggerate where we are at. Doesn't mean that the potential that we could be top 4 is unwarranted, just need some tweeking in key aspects.
I do try to level that over exaggeration out with the truth of our recent history, which most view as "negative" so maybe that's where you get confused.
But fwiw we could be a good team and have enough ingredients to be, just lack discipline and professionalism in certain aspects across the board, from coaches down to players.
Yeah DP, I still think you’re having a bit each way, but Meh.
Sure, carlton won a final, where did it get them? But Port (who are a better comparison to us anyway) also won a final, and it launched them this year.
Considering some of the conversations we were having after the Melbourne game and where we were heading at that point… I’d say if we found our way into a semi final, it would seem like a farkin miracle.
It’s all about September. Perform here, and the rest starts to take care of itself.
I think we've improved.
But so has everybody else.
Win a final, and our win / loss this year is irrelevant.As with everything, tis our you take it and move forward.
If you take it you can half ■■■■ your way through the year and win a final or two, then it's not really going to be beneficial.
take it as a foundation for bigger and better things, while needing to still work hard on all areas, then anything is possible.
A win this week shoulnd't detract from the fact this year like most recently was full of wasted oppotunities to give us a better chance of going deep into the finals. Wins against the Saints, melb richmond and Carlton could have seen us playing for top 4 spot instead of scraping into the finals yet again on questionable form.
A win this week doesn't or shouldn't hide the fact we still have so far to go it's not funny anymore.
No, that's quite pessimistic. More of a disgruntled ramble.
If we can put 4 quarters of hard footy together and beat North when everything is on the line then we will have come a long way from our last shot a finals.
Yes we still have a long way to go before we are like the Hawks/Swans who are favourites to win against anyone, no one is suggesting we deserve to win the flag based on how we have played in the H&A season.
A win this week means that we really deserve to be playing finals and will also show that we should have won at least a couple more matches to finish above North. It will also show the boys how important every game of the H&A season is, how important it is to make the top 4.
We know our best is good enough, it's a matter of consistancy, and getting it to click at the right time. Don't forget that we've blooded a few kids and pumped 20 games into Carlisle as a forward, plus we didn't have Jobe and had a few other things happening in the background. It hasn't just been about winning but improving as a club.
that's the thing, should it be taking this long for players to realise they have to turn up each and every week, with a mindset to work hard and do the things they are supposed to ?
let's not forget we have a coach who has now admitted he still doesn't know how to take this group from an average team, to a good team, so it's not just about waiting til this new crop of promising players develop, it's about weeding out still the players who can't and haven't learnt to be professional elite football players.
but hey no it's "pessimistic" to expect our players to strive for something better than seventh, with yet another missed oppotunities to actually do something.
FWIW I could go all the way back to 08 to show if we hadn't dropped a couple of games through the season, which we were in with a chance late into the game, we'd have been inside the top 4 with about 3 weeks left in the season.
It's not just this year our inconsistency has cost us a better finals chance, it's happened way too many times in recent history, and you lot continue to live in a delusional belief system that the players will just magically get it cos of a win in a final, or even worse, just cos.
This club still has ALOT of work to do, whether we win or lose this week. That issue should not be lost simply cos of a win in a final.
Darknightphoenix you are one depressing individual.
Yeah DP, I still think you're having a bit each way, but Meh.
Sure, carlton won a final, where did it get them? But Port (who are a better comparison to us anyway) also won a final, and it launched them this year.
Considering some of the conversations we were having after the Melbourne game and where we were heading at that point... I'd say if we found our way into a semi final, it would seem like a farkin miracle.
It's all about September. Perform here, and the rest starts to take care of itself.
why are port a better comparison ? cos they did improve ?
I brought up Carlton cos they were in a similar position to us, as in they had made the finals for a couple of years, and they believed they needed to "get a win" in a final to finally improve them into a true legit finals contender. That win came against us in the form of a belting. yet what have they done since ?
port bottomed out, revamped their whole club and have continued to improve under that new strutcure in the two years since ?
we are 4 years into a dream team coaching panel who are still struggling with the same issues Knights had.
a win in a final is merely a stepping stone, not a guarantee some of you seem to think it is, is all i'm trying to say.
Yeah DP, I still think you're having a bit each way, but Meh.
Sure, carlton won a final, where did it get them? But Port (who are a better comparison to us anyway) also won a final, and it launched them this year.
Considering some of the conversations we were having after the Melbourne game and where we were heading at that point... I'd say if we found our way into a semi final, it would seem like a farkin miracle.
It's all about September. Perform here, and the rest starts to take care of itself.why are port a better comparison ? cos they did improve ?
I brought up Carlton cos they were in a similar position to us, as in they had made the finals for a couple of years, and they believed they needed to "get a win" in a final to finally improve them into a true legit finals contender. That win came against us in the form of a belting. yet what have they done since ?
port bottomed out, revamped their whole club and have continued to improve under that new strutcure in the two years since ?
we are 4 years into a dream team coaching panel who are still struggling with the same issues Knights had.
a win in a final is merely a stepping stone, not a guarantee some of you seem to think it is, is all i'm trying to say.
Carlton also got king Mick and booted the coach who got them to the finals in the first place.
FWIW, I tend to agree with DP. I do think we are improving though, but it's a very round about way of going forward.
a win in a final is merely a stepping stone, not a guarantee some of you seem to think it is, is all i'm trying to say.
I think we've improved.
But so has everybody else.
Win a final, and our win / loss this year is irrelevant.As with everything, tis our you take it and move forward.
If you take it you can half ■■■■ your way through the year and win a final or two, then it's not really going to be beneficial.
take it as a foundation for bigger and better things, while needing to still work hard on all areas, then anything is possible.
A win this week shoulnd't detract from the fact this year like most recently was full of wasted oppotunities to give us a better chance of going deep into the finals. Wins against the Saints, melb richmond and Carlton could have seen us playing for top 4 spot instead of scraping into the finals yet again on questionable form.
A win this week doesn't or shouldn't hide the fact we still have so far to go it's not funny anymore.
No, that's quite pessimistic. More of a disgruntled ramble.
If we can put 4 quarters of hard footy together and beat North when everything is on the line then we will have come a long way from our last shot a finals.
Yes we still have a long way to go before we are like the Hawks/Swans who are favourites to win against anyone, no one is suggesting we deserve to win the flag based on how we have played in the H&A season.
A win this week means that we really deserve to be playing finals and will also show that we should have won at least a couple more matches to finish above North. It will also show the boys how important every game of the H&A season is, how important it is to make the top 4.
We know our best is good enough, it's a matter of consistancy, and getting it to click at the right time. Don't forget that we've blooded a few kids and pumped 20 games into Carlisle as a forward, plus we didn't have Jobe and had a few other things happening in the background. It hasn't just been about winning but improving as a club.
that's the thing, should it be taking this long for players to realise they have to turn up each and every week, with a mindset to work hard and do the things they are supposed to ?
let's not forget we have a coach who has now admitted he still doesn't know how to take this group from an average team, to a good team, so it's not just about waiting til this new crop of promising players develop, it's about weeding out still the players who can't and haven't learnt to be professional elite football players.
but hey no it's "pessimistic" to expect our players to strive for something better than seventh, with yet another missed oppotunities to actually do something.
FWIW I could go all the way back to 08 to show if we hadn't dropped a couple of games through the season, which we were in with a chance late into the game, we'd have been inside the top 4 with about 3 weeks left in the season.
It's not just this year our inconsistency has cost us a better finals chance, it's happened way too many times in recent history, and you lot continue to live in a delusional belief system that the players will just magically get it cos of a win in a final, or even worse, just cos.
This club still has ALOT of work to do, whether we win or lose this week. That issue should not be lost simply cos of a win in a final.
You talk so much about how its a mental battle with our players, and then completely ignore the psychological benefits a finals win would bring to the team.
a win in a final is merely a stepping stone, not a guarantee some of you seem to think it is, is all i'm trying to say.
Nobody is talking guarantees, we're talking improvement.
If we win a final, that's an improvement on every season since 04.
I agree, it's only a small step. But it's one we have to take before we even dream of being a top 4 side.
I took issue with you saying a win makes the seasons win/loss ratio irrelevant. would agree it's an improvement in some ways yes.
Don't fully agree that it's a must for us to be top 4, to win the game.
As with anything a win or loss taken in the right way can be beneficial, just as a win or loss taken in the wrong way can be detrimental.
Tis all about how we handle what happens, albeit I express it in an extreme way :p
I think we've improved.
But so has everybody else.
Win a final, and our win / loss this year is irrelevant.As with everything, tis our you take it and move forward.
If you take it you can half ■■■■ your way through the year and win a final or two, then it's not really going to be beneficial.
take it as a foundation for bigger and better things, while needing to still work hard on all areas, then anything is possible.
A win this week shoulnd't detract from the fact this year like most recently was full of wasted oppotunities to give us a better chance of going deep into the finals. Wins against the Saints, melb richmond and Carlton could have seen us playing for top 4 spot instead of scraping into the finals yet again on questionable form.
A win this week doesn't or shouldn't hide the fact we still have so far to go it's not funny anymore.
No, that's quite pessimistic. More of a disgruntled ramble.
If we can put 4 quarters of hard footy together and beat North when everything is on the line then we will have come a long way from our last shot a finals.
Yes we still have a long way to go before we are like the Hawks/Swans who are favourites to win against anyone, no one is suggesting we deserve to win the flag based on how we have played in the H&A season.
A win this week means that we really deserve to be playing finals and will also show that we should have won at least a couple more matches to finish above North. It will also show the boys how important every game of the H&A season is, how important it is to make the top 4.
We know our best is good enough, it's a matter of consistancy, and getting it to click at the right time. Don't forget that we've blooded a few kids and pumped 20 games into Carlisle as a forward, plus we didn't have Jobe and had a few other things happening in the background. It hasn't just been about winning but improving as a club.
that's the thing, should it be taking this long for players to realise they have to turn up each and every week, with a mindset to work hard and do the things they are supposed to ?
let's not forget we have a coach who has now admitted he still doesn't know how to take this group from an average team, to a good team, so it's not just about waiting til this new crop of promising players develop, it's about weeding out still the players who can't and haven't learnt to be professional elite football players.
but hey no it's "pessimistic" to expect our players to strive for something better than seventh, with yet another missed oppotunities to actually do something.
FWIW I could go all the way back to 08 to show if we hadn't dropped a couple of games through the season, which we were in with a chance late into the game, we'd have been inside the top 4 with about 3 weeks left in the season.
It's not just this year our inconsistency has cost us a better finals chance, it's happened way too many times in recent history, and you lot continue to live in a delusional belief system that the players will just magically get it cos of a win in a final, or even worse, just cos.
This club still has ALOT of work to do, whether we win or lose this week. That issue should not be lost simply cos of a win in a final.
You talk so much about how its a mental battle with our players, and then completely ignore the psychological benefits a finals win would bring to the team.
not ignoring it CAN have benefits, it can and I'd rather take our chances of rectifying the problems we have, next year with a win against north this year, than not.
Just my opinion though that too many people are yet again pinning their hopes on us "getting it" and improving beyond this year, is reliant on us winning this final against north.
A win against North is not going to be a magic cure for all our problems, just like the weapon wasn't, just like moving to better traning facilities wasn't, just like the dream team coaching panel wasn't.
There is no quick fix, esp just a finals win. I hope it's the catalyst that sparks them into being as focussed as they need to be, to win a gf in coming years.
Conversly a loss against North shouldn't detract from the good that has been produced this year, it's a balancing act that so many don't seem to get, they solely focus on only one side of the fence, being the positives and neglect the rest.
DP:
Advice without (for once) being a ■■■■ about it:
Get your ideas straight, before you post them
Everything in this thread is just a stream of consciousness ramble. You seem to be anti-everything without being in one camp.
Im not sure we have had the right supplements this year.
We have NOT improved in my mind at all. In some elements we have, but overall its a no.
We are far too inconsistent, and when we win, we just seem to do enough to win, rather than go for the kill.
We seem to have no killer instinct and we seem to have no confidence in each other at times during games.
When these problems are addressed, we will improve.
Defensively for sure, I know it’s a trend that scoring has decreased across the board,but we have the #4 defence in the AFL, which is nothing to sneeze at. Forward of centre is where our problem lies,mans we need to address that if we are to become a better team.
On the “doing just enough” - kicking it around for the last 5 minutes - I think that’s a conscious decision to save petrol. Fact is we are definitely not good enough to win every game kicking away and I think it makes sense to keep that in mind. We could/should have won 15 with a teensy bit of tinkering.
could have won 15 but also could have won 10 as we were lucky against eagles suns and blues so probably finished where we deserved. the finals are not so much a stepping stone as a guide to where we are realistically If we win a final or 2 it shows we are in the ball park, if we don't then we are not, pretty simple really