I also think Cale Hooker could end up with 50 uncontested possessions.
Agree with those above who say the 2000 side would win by 10+ goals.
I started a similar thread here about 12 years ago comparing the 84-5 sides against the 2000 side. The consensus on Blitz then was, based on talent, the 85 side would thrash them.
That was just how good that team was. Best ever.I forget that some of the younger posters wouldn't have seen the 84/85 sides live. I'm am luckily old enough that I did and I was a kid just old enough to understand and appreciate it. Basically I was born into footy the year Sheedy took over. The year my dad started taking me each week (as a 7 year old) was the year Sheeds started. So I was 10 and 11 for the 84/85 flags.I've always thought The 84/84 side was regarded as the best of the sheedy era.
Madden, Watson, Daniher, and Merrett were stars of the game. I was watching a DVD of 85 the other day and the commentators were saying Roger was the best player in the league. That and we had the best ruck man of the modern era. Watson and Terry- right up there with the best.
That's before You mention Vanders, Fish, Baker, Harvs, Bomber, duckworth, daisy.. What a side.
My memory of the players - likening them to players of this era would be:
Salmon - basically Carlisle for the last 2 weeks but EVERY week. The first year (his second) that Sheedy chose to play him in the 1sts (1984) he was 63 goals from 12 games before doing his knee.
Van Der Haar- Tex Walker before his knee injury
Terry Daniher - No one quite like him. He used to mark the footy at those moments when you were praying for someone too. Good for 8 to 10 one grabs a game and 3 or 4 goals. Would float forward or back like Hird. Better than Hird in the air but not as good as Hird at ground level.
Watson - Dangerfield but EVERY week and better. Watch the Neil Daniher comeback at Princes Park last quarter on YouTube vs Carlton and watch him Dangerfield power through the mud deep into the last quarter. He was such a powerful machine.
Neagle - Hibbo but maybe faster. Similar to Watson but on a wing.'
Madden - An original. He used to kick a lot of goals. Take a lot of marks forward. Imagine a slower but more consistent Ryder at his best in the ruck and up forward, taking marks, kicking goals, floating back. Consistently dominating his role. Like Ryder, he never missed.
Harvey - Watters for West Coast at his best. But could go forward and kick goals. Just insane courage. I've never seen a crazier footballer. Maybe J Brown but Harves was 15 kilos lighter and so it was more insane to go into the packs he used to. That Reiwoldt mark. Harves regularly did that.
Leon Baker - Darren Jarman or Mercuri. Baker is nearly the most skillful player I've seen. Top 5.
Bomber Thompson - Bags but better at ground level. Plus Bartels aerial ability and ability to go forward and kick a goal.
Foulds - 300 games of constantly racking up 20 kicks on a wing. Maybe Stants with a nicer kick.
Merrett - (Dodga!) Maybe Petrie but a bit scarier He was hard and went in a straight line for the ball. He was to be feared. But would take the ball at the highest point when in the air. (Although Dodga is my handle, my memories of him were more my dad laughing at how much opposition players would sh*t themselves when he was coming at them).
Ezard - when young was one of the most lightening players I've seen. Top 5. Maybe that little Mitchell guy for West Coast who kicked goal and took mark of the year would compare. These days I guess Garlett but with the ability to fly like Wingard.
Daisy Williams - tough like Daniel Kerr for his size but without Kerrs run and carry.
That's how the memories and impressions sit in my head. 84/85 would have beaten 2000 I reckon.
Interested hearing others peoples likenesses to modern day players.
Fyfe is James Hird as an example but Hird was a more skilful kick and less panic ridden and more consistent.
Salmon - Carlisle. Good call. Can't find any modern player like him. Maybe Nick Riewoldt without the repeat running?
Van Der Haar- I think he's more like Jack Riewoldt (if he was in a better team around him).
Terry Daniher - No one quite like him. The closest thing would be a modern day third forward. Something like Gunston but with key position capabilities.
Watson - I'm going on a limb here and I think he's Ablett Jnr. Contested footy and burst of speed are very similar. Also, I don't ever recall Watson being tagged out of a game. He was just a very unique player. Maybe Dane Swan, but I think he was better skilled.
Neagle - Hibbo but maybe faster. I'll take your one. My memory of him is tough to define in the modern day. Sort of a mixture of Hibbo and Stephen Hill?
Madden - He's Dean Cox with the forward line play of Roughead.
Harvey - Waters is a good pick. But Harvey could play on tall backs and at CHF. I can't find a player like him. Not so much on talent wise, but his courage was unmatched. Maybe Archer but with far more talent.
Leon Baker - Darren Jarman or Mercuri. I'm thinking more along the lines of Dayne Beams with Pendelbury's skills and silk.
Bomber Thompson - I'll go with Solomon with better skills.
Foulds - Stants? Nah, I think he's an Andrew Mackie like quiet achiever. I remember him more as a running defender than a midfielder.
Merrett - he's definitely Roughead with a bit more of the Jonathon Brown c*nt in him.
Ezard - I'll go with the Pies high flyer Jamie Elliott. I can't think of anyone else who combines the aerial marking ability with roving ability.
Daisy Williams - Daniel Kerr is the perfect comparison.
You've left a couple of people off...
Duckworth - Scott Thompson from North. Can't think of another undersized player who continually plays on the oppositions tall and tough players. Maybe Tom Harley?
Paul Weston - the toughest player for me to find a comparison because I never took much notice of him. Only the 84 GF. I'll go with Ted Richards.
Walsh - I can't find one for him either. Maybe Nick Maxwell but a little more accountable.
Nobby Clarke - James Bartel for me.
Glenn Hawker - he was the most skilful and dangerous player I ever saw. Give him five possessions and he'll make them count.
Shane Heard - what a fitness freak he was. And also so strong! A cross between Hodge and Jordan Lewis for me.
Damn we had an awesome team. Lucky for us there was no salary cap.
To me the only question is whether the eleventy billion free kicks the 2014 team would get would be enough to cover them being down to 14 men by half time.
The 2014 team gets free kicks? Since when?
To me the only question is whether the eleventy billion free kicks the 2014 team would get would be enough to cover them being down to 14 men by half time.
The 2014 team gets free kicks? Since when?
Since the game of AFL became netball over the last 14 seasons.
For the young kids and history anorexics out there, the reason the AFL brought in the salary cap and the draft was to bring to an end what they thought would be an era of dominance of the mid-80's Essendon side.
Plus the expansion clubs with mandated transfers from existing clubs.
Of course, as the League's most conservative if not supine club, we played by the spirit of the game, gifting Premiership players Franky Dunell (and later) Roger Merrett to the Bears. We also lost Merv to Snydey.
While fark Carlton did their usual cheating Carlton thing and gave them a player who promptly retired, and another player who then went on an extended holiday touring Europe.
For the young kids and history anorexics out there, the reason the AFL brought in the salary cap and the draft was to bring to an end what they thought would be an era of dominance of the mid-80's Essendon side.
Plus the expansion clubs with mandated transfers from existing clubs.
Of course, as the League's most conservative if not supine club, we played by the spirit of the game, gifting Premiership players Franky Dunell (and later) Roger Merrett to the Bears. We also lost Merv to Snydey.
While fark Carlton did their usual cheating Carlton thing and gave them a player who promptly retired, and another player who then went on an extended holiday touring Europe.
Technically we gave them Peter Banfield, Chris Waterson and Brenton Phillips, and then Frank Dunnell, Mike Richardson and Geoff Raines all were poached by the Bears.
Roger Merrett played 1987 with us and injured his elbow.
He was offered a big contract by them at the end of 87, which we didn't match.
Had we got close, he would have stayed but there were board members who thought he was finished because he had an ordinary 87 playing with the injury.
PS For me, 84-85 would beat 2000, and either would beat the current team.
But that's with those teams having the benefit of modern training, game plans etc.
I'd shift Fletch forward for this game to try and create a mismatch on Fletch.
I'd also like to see a punch on between Solly and Hibbo. and Chappy and Mark Johnson.
Long would carve us up for pace.
I think the 2000 side would do it pretty easily. Agree with the 10 goals assessment.
GOLD
Mark Johnson would smash chapman. Chapman wouldn't stand a chance.
Lloyd would kick 6 on hooker, on the lead would be way to quick.
If the 2000 team had the fitness levels of the players of today's era they would crush the 2014 team by at least 100 points, maybe even more.
The 2000 team were as tough as nails, they would smash this current team to bits physically.
We would struggle to kick more than 5 goals.
Surprised it took someone so long to point this out
People forget the guys that didn’t make the 2000 GF team, Rioli and denham to name two. Who would both be starting 18 in our team today.
People forget the guys that didn't make the 2000 GF team, Rioli and denham to name two. Who would both be starting 18 in our team today.
Rioli was injured. From memory Denham, Prior and Robran were emergencies almost the entire season without hardly getting a game.
Denham in 2000 was done and dusted.
Michael Prior was stiff (even to the point where it looked like MJ was going to miss with Injury, but got up for the game) and he’d get a game in our current team.
Denham wouldn’t.
fletch should be in both teams.
Do a 1993 - 2014 comparison and Fletch is still in both teams. :lol:
I am slowly falling in love with the current team but they still do not come close to either the 93 or 00 teams, they are getting there though.
It's impossible to compare due to the amount of extra fitness running and team focused defensive/ rebounding forward press tactics. eg. the only game lost that year was against a flood and things have evolved a lot further than the flood.
Trying to take fitness out of though makes it impossible to compare players because the ability to run all day and still be going at hundred percent intensity and focus is a basic requirement of modern midfields. I personally think Myers would tear up pretty much all of the 200 midfield for brute power and run and is a weapon kick. Let alone what Watson would do.
The 2000 forwardline is the only clear winner and that's even after Hird plays the entire game in the middle desperately trying to help his midifeld break even against an opponent that is bigger and stronger and better drilled at swarming contests then spreading with the ball in hand.
I don't think I'd like to watch it to be honest.
It's impossible to compare due to the amount of extra fitness running and team focused defensive/ rebounding forward press tactics. eg. the only game lost that year was against a flood and things have evolved a lot further than the flood.
For those of us old enough to remember, try comparing these sides to the '62 & '65 teams. Too many things have changed, but there were a lot of champions in those sides too.
I think my all time fave team is the 1993. Me and big bro used to race home from school every day for about three months after the GF and put the video on, then go outside and be Mercuri, or Misiti, or Hird, or Calthorpe, or Olarenshaw, or Longy............................good times.
Funny story, my nanna was staying with us for a week or so and everyday she would ask "Who's winning?" when we were watching the GF.
Actually it's not that funny now that I type it out like that.
I think my all time fave team is the 1993. Me and big bro used to race home from school every day for about three months after the GF and put the video on, then go outside and be Mercuri, or Misiti, or Hird, or Calthorpe, or Olarenshaw, or Longy............................good times.
Funny story, my nanna was staying with us for a week or so and everyday she would ask "Who's winning?" when we were watching the GF.
Actually it's not that funny now that I type it out like that.
i think it's sweet.
It's impossible to compare due to the amount of extra fitness running and team focused defensive/ rebounding forward press tactics. eg. the only game lost that year was against a flood and things have evolved a lot further than the flood.
For those of us old enough to remember, try comparing these sides to the '62 & '65 teams. Too many things have changed, but there were a lot of champions in those sides too.
Of course we have to assume equal training etc. Even so, the '85 side would have beaten them.
They were not only a champion team, but a team of champions. That side not only had champions on every line, but had all-time legends like Tim Watson, Simon Madden and Terry Daniher.
You'll probably be able to watch a simulation of this on some space age computer in a few decades
Oh for sure - JJ was a star, but 2000 Johnson was a good player, not a great player. (1 30+ possession game, and 8 Brownlow Votes) 2001 was when he really started to dominate games. (4 30+ possession games, and 16 Brownlow votes) Either way - he dominates Hocking in this match up. But Hocking would go to Misiti anyway IMO.
See, I loved Jason Johnson, he was probably my favourite 'not-Hird' player of the era, but I don't think this is true. It's only the quicker, more evasive guys that trouble Hocking, and those weren't exactly two of JJ's best qualities. Plus there is the fact that JJ didn't get tagged week in week out, but when he did, he didn't cope well. I reckon Hocking would totally blanket him.
Also:
- I reckon Hurley would beat Lucas fairly convincingly. The strong bodied guys usually did.
- Neither Blumfield or Heffernan could go with Jobe, and Misiti was WAY too unaccountable to go head to head with him.
- If you threw Myers into a run with role on Misiti, that could be interesting.
- Ryder would kill Barnes
- I think Wellman would be moved onto Joe by quarter time.
You could find 5 to 10 match ups that were either favorable or at least break even for the current squad. But it's the depth of 2000 that makes this no contest. As the current team slips away a little when you hit players 18-19, the 2000 team uses players like Bewick, Long and Barnard off the bench.
The modern game plan and fitness levels would even the whole thing up, but just based on head to head, it would be a smashing.
P.S
I just thought of two match ups; one funny, one awesome.
- Imagine Jackson Merrett trying to play a defensive role on Hardwick.
- Goddard head to head with Hird.
I reckon the '14 version would win, convincingly, in the midfield. For a great, great side, the 2000 midfield was pretty poor.
{Ryder} Watson Heppell Hocking
{Bellchambers} Myers Zaha Goddard Stanton Howlett
v
{Barnes} Hird JJ Misiti
{Alessio} Mercuri Blumfield Heffernan? Long?
Front line - call it evens.
Then one team is rolling Myers, Zaha, Goddard in there, and the 2000 team is throwing that up against Blumfield/Heffernan and well-past-his-best Long, it gets a bit messy for mine.
Ball movement, 2000 easy.
Forward and back, 2000 easy. Cohesiveness, and toughness, obviously 2000. The 2014 key forwards would be bossed around by grumpy little buggers like Wally & MJ & Solly - a lot of teams have done to them this year.
But the midfield would be one way the other way.
I reckon 2015 will be a closer run thing.