Investment advice

I have a margin loan.

I wish I’d bought property first. Then just take out an investment loan, secured by the property, and use that to buy shares. That will get you a better rate…maybe…2% better?

It’s unfair IMO. It shows how unsophisticated lending is. A stock-secured margin loan at 10% LVR will still incur 1-2% higher interest than a property-secured homeloan at 95% LVR.

Over the years, I’ve somehow managed to get myself a personal account manager. So I now get a better rate than the advertised levels.

I tend to fix my rate for 12 months at a time. Here are some recent examples:

  • In August 2023, I was offered a rate of 8% for the next 12 months. And that’s paying all the interest upfront. And that’s a discounted rate! I decided to just sell some things and pay it off.
  • Last week, I noticed that the futures curve for interest rates was sloping down over the next 12 months. I called up for a new quote…7.45% was what I got, paid upfront, for 12 months. At these levels, its still a pretty borderline exercise IMO.

These days, I just buy LIC’s…which are like human-managed ETF’s, that you can often buy at a discount…I don’t want to do individual company analysis, or be too concentrated.

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Margin loans are a really good option if you’re in a high tax bracket.

Are they ever NOT at a discount (including when you want to sell)? :wink:

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So you still can organise the tax advantages off an investment loan secured by property?

That sounds really good, who has the product? Macquarie?

Ie i assume the gap between interest paid and dividend return is tax deductable? The lending product doesn’t matter the ato will let you gear if thats the case.

Heard a lot about LICs but need to educate myself. Would appreciate any info on ones you chose to invest in.

Lol moneysmart. Im not looking to overleverage or invest in equities that could go to zero.

Yes, the interest paid is tax-deductible. There is no “product” as such.

The phrase you want to look up is “debt recycling”.

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I don’t own any property, but DJR seems to back me up…I think the clean paper trail is to set up a new loan account secured against your property, tick all the boxes that say the loan purpose is for “investment” (you pay a slightly higher rate)…and transfer the funds to wherever you want to get investing. Then make it clear to your accountant that this particular loan account is tax deductible interest that you want included in your return.

As for LIC’s…you can kind of see the universe in the Bell Potter reports here:

There are even funds that invest in LIC’s. So it might be interesting to see what they choose to buy…such as:

I don’t own either of those funds…but WAM Strategic is kind of humourous. It invests in things like LICs it considers to be at a discount to NTA. While it, itself, is an LIC trading at a discount to NTA. So theoretically two layers of discount. Truth is, their fee structure is a disgrace.

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BHP.

They were warned for months that the Tailings Dam was unstable, but they just kept stacking the mud higher and higher, and were not taking sufficient steps to dewater it. Australian engineers !!

Likely a risk assessment where they started from the outcome they wanted and justified it backwards from there.

Hmmm…It appears to me they cannot treat tailings so is that why they can never release it?
So when you think about it logically, even if they keep strengthening the dam, it is always likely to burst at some point.

I wonder what BHP/Vale’s tailing treatment plan was?

BHP Response to media commentary regarding Brazil Federal Court decision

BHP notes the recent media commentary regarding a decision by the Federal Court of Brazil in relation to the BRL$155 billion (approximately US$32 billion) Federal Public Prosecution Office claim.

As previously disclosed in BHP’s 2023 Annual Report, in May 2016, Brazil’s Federal Public Prosecution Office (and 18 other public entities) filed a public civil claim against Samarco Mineração S.A. (Samarco), Vale S.A. (Vale) and Billiton Brasil Ltda (BHP Brasil) seeking BRL$155 billion (approximately US$43 billion at the time) for reparation, compensation and collective moral damages in relation to the failure of the Fundão tailings dam on 5 November 2015.

The Fundão tailings dam was operated by Samarco, a non-operated joint venture owned by BHP Brasil (a subsidiary of BHP Group Limited) and Vale. BHP Brasil and Vale each hold a 50 per cent interest in Samarco.

On 16 October 2023, an interlocutory motion was filed by the Brazilian Federal Prosecutors in the Federal Prosecution Office claim seeking the early payment of collective moral damages, which is one of the categories of damages sought in the BRL$155 billion claim. The media commentary reports that the Federal Court of Brazil issued an interlocutory decision quantifying collective moral damages arising from the Fundão tailings dam failure in the amount of BRL$47.6 billion (US$9.7 billion) (excluding interest and inflation from the date of the dam failure) and ordering Samarco, Vale and BHP Brasil to pay these damages, when any and all appeals are finally determined.

BHP Brasil has not been served with a decision by the Court and will review the decision to assess its implications, the potential for an appeal and any potential impact to the Group’s provision related to the Samarco dam failure. Since early CY2021, the parties have been engaging in negotiations to seek a settlement of obligations under the Framework Agreement and BRL$155bn Federal Public Prosecution Office claim and the negotiations are expected to resume in February 2024.

As disclosed in BHP’s 2023 Annual Report, the Group’s provision related to the Samarco dam failure is US$3.7 billion as at 30 June 2023. Further details of the Group’s provisions and contingent liabilities related to the Fundão tailings dam failure (including the Federal Public Prosecution Office claim) are set out in the Group’s financial statements for the year ended 30 June 2023.

BHP Brasil is fully committed to supporting the extensive ongoing remediation and compensation efforts in Brazil through the Fundação Renova, which is a not-for-profit, private foundation that was established following the Fundão tailings dam failure to implement 42 remediation and compensatory programs in Brazil.

Authorised for release by Stefanie Wilkinson, Group Company Secretary

China Evergrande has been ordered to liquidate. Surprised the share market hasn’t lost the plot. Yet.

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Yeah I agree, it could be a catalyst for bigger problems for Chinas economy, extension to ours.

Tailing dam treatment and engineering is a very developed science and Australia leads the way is design and technology. UWA and Uni Melb and some others are way ahead of the pack in training mining engineers on this as well.

Like anything though you need to not just have a plan but you need to implement it. Typically they stack the tailings waste in a big heap and dewater it so it becomes stable, they call it a dam but it is not held back by a wall, but by the design of the heap and knowing the Rheology of the tailings. We sell the prime piece of kit for doing the testing and have been market leaders for 25 years, but the best gear is no good if you do not use it.

From reading the report, the massive Brazilian rainfalls were not well factored into the design hence the tailing dam reached its yield point where this big heap of mud started to flow. Once it starts moving it is impossible to stop until it runs out all by itself.

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So…the plan was to just leave a heap of toxic tailings out in the Brazilian rainfall in perpetuity?

dafoes: JEFF GOLDBLUM as IAN MALCOLM JURASSIC...

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BHP is a tier 1 mining company, so they would have a remediation plan at the end of the mine’s life.

Now there is a valid question about would BHP maintain ownership through the full lifecycle. One of the more dodgy companies might purchase it and fail to fully remediate as per the mine plan.

Poor design of the tailings dam doesn’t mean the tailings were never going to be dealt with. And there’s potential they were nibbling away at the problem, we don’t know.

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China has taken measures to ensure lending for construction goes full steam ahead.

The futures market in China is very similar to the current spot of 130 per tonne.

Good question and Benny has given a response that is 100% correct.

There are some shoddy practices around and some very bad ones in New Guinea caused massive issues and still does. Gold Mine processing still uses cyanide and that is very toxic. Bad enough when they leave the waste in a tailings dam, but worse like Lihir Island where waste goes into the sea.

Part of the permit requires a remediation plan but as Benny said, if the mine goes thrpugh changes of ownership and is worked for 50 years, then it is mostly a big mess.

It is not just toxic waste as well and not just in the middle of nowhere. We have massive sand pits to the north of Bacchus Marsh that are slowly moving further north. The parts closest to Town are in reality mined out, but they keep digging around as if it is closed then they have to spend millions on fixing it. Houses are built pretty close and when there is a hot north wind, lots of sand and dust it flying everywhere.

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I’ve been researching KKR CREDIT INCOME FUND (KKC) lately, and cannot find much info about it but got very excited when I saw this seemingly pretty honest opinion come up on my google search…


Hahaha…
…here is the website I was taken to:
Screen Shot 2024-04-03 at 2.15.32 pm

Just been told the best way to place my super is in an allocated pension . True?