People just love a dig
Which article? I cannot see any article posted above that says any such thing.
And your contention is incorrect. But thatâs cool, it seems as though your mind is already made up.
Hmm, I guess it depends how the medical system is run within the AFL. I think there might be some complicating factors.
For example, you play at a club who employs Dr. X. They consult at (say) the Epworth Hospital. Once you retire, you continue to see Dr. X at their office at the Epworth Hospital for on-going management of sports related conditions.
Do the AFL related medical records stay for seven years (a) post-retirement or (b) from your last consultation with Dr.X?
Quoted below. My apologies, I didnât realise quite how far back it was from; not fair to expect you to remember back that far.
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Last consultation.
Thanks for posting the article - and no I didnât scroll up that far!
A few notes on the 7 year rule:
- itâs 7 years post the past consultation, not 7 years post the creation of the record
- itâs not a requirement to destroy records. Itâs an ability to destroy records, they are very different things.
- itâs commonplace for records to be transferred to the patients new doctor and only then destroyed. This would be especially true when a patient is essentially forced to change doctors. For instance - after they left a football club and were no longer treated by the club doctor anymore, it would be be commonplace for those records to be transferred to the playerâs private doctor. This is so the patient continues to have a full medical history if things go wrong.
- This is especially true of professional sportspeople, but in particular it is critical in relation to any injuries to the head, the effects of which can sometimes manifest 20ish years after the injury itself.
- in the event of records being destroyed, a further record needs to be created saying what records where destroyed and when. That apparently has not been done here.
If you want to believe that the AFL is just playing things by the book then thatâs cool. Knowing the AFLâs extensive history of corruption I donât believe that, and neither do the lawyers for the effected players.
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Considering how head in the sand and single viewed the AFL are about this issues I have no doubt they will be covering their â â â .
I know some people in this space and they believe the AFL has been deliberately avoiding progress and covering up â â â â for at least ten years.
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Why are you trying to pin something Olympic Park Medicine (or whoever else) did on the AFL?
Itâs not their responsibility to keep medical records.
Bit like me cracking the â â â â â at my employer after my GP throws out my medical records.
Well itâs the players lawyers who are cracking it at the AFL and itâs clubs, presumably because they were the client of the medical practice, and would have paid the bills and called the shots.
If you want to believe nothing untoward has gone on here then thatâs cool, but I donât.
Is your employer paying for and receiving medical opinions from and in control of the process for seeing your doctor? If not, then no, itâs not really like that
Yes it is like that.
The medical records are the property/responsibility of the registered work address of the practitioner at the time of consult.
Nothing to do with AFL HQ and often less to do with the clubs than many would believe.
If anyone has an issue with medical record keeping take it up with AHPRA as itâs their call.
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Just on this - thereâs a quirky set of laws relating to obtaining medical records.
Under common law they dont have to be provided, but under the privacy act they should hand them over.
One thing we do know is that the AFL clubs are not very good at keeping medical records - well up until circa 2013 at least; they may be better now.
Back in the John Barnes days i.e. prior to early 2000s I would think that the medical records held by clubs would have been very limited and probably only included reference to surgeries, or broken bones etc. I doubt âlittleâ bumps to the head even received treatment let alone were recorded.
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Yeah quite doubtful any of that was written down. In those days if someone went off from a hit (like Mil Hanna) but then came back on to play I very much doubt the club Doc noted it down.
I completely reject your incredulity at medical records being destroyed after 7 years.
Healthcare (and weâre talking 2004, so itâs all paper) creates a truly surprising amount of paper.
Keeping said amounts of paper costs money.
In hospitals, that ends up being very very big piles of paper, costing big amounts of money, so they pay a smaller amount of money for a lady to take away said piles of paper to a gigantic shredder.
Thatâs reality.
In suburban doctorâs surgeries - and no doubt footy clubs, weâre talking filing boxes out the back, along a corridor somewhere thatâs hopefully normally locked.
Probably organised by when they got delisted (and hence discharged), until they can shreddy shred shred, and actually walk down that corridor again.
If theyâd gone fishing for these documents at 7 years and 1 day and they were gone⌠maybe fishy.
15 years?
No. Absolutely not fishy, in the slightest.
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Suggesting a Dr didnât do their job well - even just by dodgy documentation - at the time is a very different matter.
Tread carefully.
Yes, but many many many health practitioners have multiple work addresses.
Doctors at a footy club would be just one example.
If theyâre treating you at EFC, thatâs whoâs responsible for the records.
If they take you on as a private patient, at their private rooms, theyâre taking on the responsibility for the records.
Itâs on the club⌠for 7 years post discharge.
Like you, I canât see how this is an AFL issue. (I canât see how itâs anything other than a Ty Zantuck issue, frankly).
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From speaking to my supervisors it wasnât that long ago hospitals were still using paper.
I mean, the electronic system at RMH is so new theyâre still in the process of writing the SOPs for it and the instructional videos are from 2018.
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Iâm looking forward to the AFLâs lawyers making that very sophisticated argument in court.
âWell your honour, records are on paper, and there was lots of paper, like lots and lots of paper, and that paper goes in boxes, and the boxes full of lots and lots of paper were kind of blocking the tea room, so you know, we got rid of the paper and the boxes and now there is no more paper.â
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âWell your honour, legally we are required to keep medical records for 7 years after the last appointment before destroying them.
As your client last played for the Essendon Football Club in 2001 and didnât request for a copy of these prior to 2008 they were, legally, destroyed.â
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