While not the same thing, when Abbott came in to power we had a number of Royal Commissions that were entirely designed to target the Labor opposition. It became so bad that even right wing cheerleaders like Bolt got uncomfortable with it.
The problems arise when government becomes not about the battle of ideas but hanging on to power at all costs.
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Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I think Obama had an issue with Syria and his red lines, but generally most US administrations will have one stuff up in 8 years. The bigger impact during Obama’s years was the perception around the gridlock of the US government (and its ability to get things done), and that is something that is squarely on the Republicans. But I don’t think the perception of the US dramatically changed during this period.
Agree Bush and the Iraq war was a major element. Plus Abu Graib and Gitmo.
On the political basis, this would be a fundamentally flawed statement. Obama was very much a center right candidate, as was Hillary. But as you say, the society did shift a bit more left (or some of it did). But I don’t think the right lost ground, beyond the natural demographics (their main base getting older/dying off, minorities having higher birth rates, more U18’s becoming old enough to vote).
I think there is more violence, mostly because the right both feel its justified, and that it may be the only path to power (that and voter restrictions). In a fair election, their ability to win is significantly reduced. You’re seeing more open white nationalism, far more right wing terrorism, and more stock piling of weapons.
The “left”'s violence has both been far smaller, and (mostly) reactionary. There are exceptions (that guy who shot at the Republican politicians at the base ball field), but that is far less ordinary that on the right. Where you’ve had in the last 12 months the bombs, the attacks on Jewish and black churches, and large spikes in hate crimes.
And no, I don’t think there will be a civil war.
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Hmmm.
I’m not sure I entirely accept your premise here. Can you elaborate a bit on what you see as ‘the left pushing to the fore’? Because other than a few steps towards gay rights, I just can’t see it. What giant strides towards the Left has US political/cultural opinion taken in the last couple of decades?
What I remember of the Obama presidency is the utter abandonment of the middle ground and evidence-based policy on the right, in favour of bizarre conspiracy theorisation - and this attitude has not stayed confined to the wacky fringes, it’s penetrated into the mainstream of the Republican party and into positions of power. I mean, Bush was pretty bad with the Iraq invasion and the heavy lean towards religiously-based solutions to every problem, but other than that it was just mostly common or garden incompetence and venality which was extremely large in scale, but in nature no different to what’s affected all sorts of inept administrations of all political stripes. When Obama won - well, suddenly there’s a flourishing birther movement. And the Tea Party, remember them? Funny how they don’t care about the debt any more now that a republican is in power. The mainstreaming of lunatics like Sarah Palin was nothing to do with the left, it happened because the republican base demanded it. And same with the complete abandonment of science-based climate policy. Bush I was working towards climate change measures, but now it’s basically doom from their own base for any republican to suggest that, and the only reason I can see is that Al Gore wrote a book on it once. And all this happened long before Obama.
I’m seeing a lot among people whose politics tends towards the right but who are relatively sane, a tendency to say ‘look what you made us do!’ when it comes to the excesses of Trump and modern day republicanism (not referring to you here IT, more a few conservative journos etc who I follow). I just don’t think the record bears that out.
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Yes and I said that Ants, not politics.
Then we disagree because there was a lot more wrong with Obama than Syria.
Jeepers. Well at least it was clear. No weasel words or fluffy explanations like previous administrations - simply that Saudi Arabia are a strategic and economic ally and fark everyone else. It’s amoral and awful but at least it’s honest!
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Sorry, it wasn’t particularly my premise, I am talking about what the alt-right believe and have been pushing and how they are “pushing back”.
Anyway, how about the other part of the question, which is really what I was focused on, not the whole ideology of the issue?
In a modern world has nationality been replaced by ideology?
The U.S coalition with Saudi started with Nixon, well well well well before Trump and has been going on ever since. Yes Trump is a narcissistic, cruel demagogue but the States have been long time allies of KSA, same with the U.K and France.
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I think it’s worth mentioning in passing that there are Republican voters (and it would seem politicians) that are appalled, horrified and frightened by Trump.
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Pity that apart from McCain few of the elected Republicans have actually voted in an impactful way to stop Trumpism from taking over…
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It’s a point of view.
I believe a lot of people in the Republican Party are working very hard to make sure a lot of thought bubbles never make it that far.
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I know, I said that in my reply. I was just making it clear that if that had been the crux of the statement, that it would be flawed. Since you lead with it and all.
What else did Obama do which seriously impacted the international perception of the US? He seems to have been a pretty stock standard center candidate. A few of the things he did were left leaning, but that was more because of how far to the right the US is (e.g. healthcare was fantastic, but the system versus most other western countries is about as “right” a model as you can find). He was involved in any number of international agreements, spanning from Iran, climate change and trade.
I’m not quite sure where you can say he abused the international brand of the USA.
On the first bit (since I think the idea of a civil war is preposterous and not really worth talking about) so you agree that the first bit is just a right-wing conspiracy myth by a bunch of people who think their way should be the only way?
I agree a civil war is extremely unlikely.
A civil uprising in a city that will take upwards of a week to settle?
I reckon that’s about even money.
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Agree with that. I work with a Republican (old school, he worked on the GW campaign) and he is beyond shocked at what is going on. He said that what attracted him to the party (apart from parental influence) was its focus on fiscal conservatism and “small government”. But, in the last decade it has been taken over by one fringe group after another.
I like the guy so we haven’t had too many deep conversations (given my incredible angst) 
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sigh Ants, why do you have to behave this way?
I wouldn’t be surprised if you had a lot of common ground.
TAKE THAT BACK! Did I mention he is a LA Dodgers fan? I am a SF Giants fan. That is akin to Carlton and Essendon.
In all seriousness though, yes. He is a Californian (like myself), a father who dotes on his kids, and is just a super decent person (which I aspire to be too).
And, getting back to politics, I see myself as a fiscal conservative too albeit, unlike many Republicans, I am socially very liberal.