Lenin, Stalin, Zedong, Pol Pot, Kim Jong, Chavez etc... would never hurt a fly!
since when did the left represent dictatorship? The far left is where civil rights, feminism, social equality, anti war and environmental movements where born.
The Union Movement you mean
The union movement has a lot to be proud of, but it’s pretty hard to justify the the above list as being among them.
Understandably, unions are mostly concerned about the welfare of their members. Which is entirely fair enough (that’s what unions are FOR, after all…), but at times it can mean they oppose necessary change. You can’t argue that, for instance, Arthur ‘Two Wongs don’t make a white’ Calwell was a shining beacon of hope in the civil rights and anti-racism debates. Or that the modern CFMEU has been a beacon of environmental progessivism, especially when it comes to issues like old-growth logging.
As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said, but the ALP has solidly supported the last three foreign wars Australia has engaged in - Iraq, Afghanistan, and thirdly and most unforgivably stupidly, Iraq again.
HM, I like most of your posts but it is obvious from this post that you have not much knowledge of Australian history.
It is an egregious mistake to infer that Arthur Calwell was a racist from that remark that he is associated with. Please look up the context in which he said it in Parliament: The Menzies government was wrong in keeping out a man whose surname was Wong under the the WAP; even keeping out two men called Wong would not make that decision correct or “white” under the WAP. The wit in his remark is lost in history and is unfairly used to impugn a good man.
As for your remark:
“As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said”
Well, I am just amazed… the unions tried to prevent Menzies shipping Australian iron to Japan in the 1930’s knowing that they would be turning that iron into weapons to kill Australians and others, Look up why Menzies was called “Pig Iron Bob”.
While you are looking up history, look up who it was that led the largest peaceful demonstrations in Australia’s history: it would be Dr Jim Cairns. The moratorium marches he led prevented more Australians from going to Viet Nam to fight in a futile war.
Also look up who stopped conscripting 18 year old Australians to go fight in wars we should never be in: that would be Gough Whitlam’s labour government as soon as they were elected in December 1972.
I could go on, but I hope you and other young people will get the message.
It is really unfortunate that even intelligent people do not know about the problems that Australians have previously suffered, and who has rectified them, and how. It is precisely this ignorance that the Tories rely on - and encourage by reducing education, media diversity etc.
Finally I am sorry that this post is probably too long for the TLDNR generation. Maybe someone can cut it up into paragraphs for them.
I reckon instead of the last line you could have posted some links or suggested some books for further reading instead…
According to the histories I’ve read, Bolshies particularly in Russia but also Germany were a factor in stopping WWI - the last stand of the traditional 19th century aristocracy. Not necessarily trade unionists but definitely socialists.
■■■■■■ sad to read about the great things the ALP has actually achieved. They’re not like that now.
Left and right mean nothing in our system today. That’s why fanboying over labor and liberal is rather pointless.
EDIT: What I should say is labor and liberal are not that different at all today. Further to this, the left and right thing dismisses all other systems as completely crap. IMO just buys into the idea of capitalism being the only and best way. That’s not to say I’d prefer communism or fascism, just that we shouldn’t be so close minded.
It’s not always the “left” versus the “right”, RAC and Labor for Refugees are protesting against the proposed support of Boat Turn Backs and other elements of Labor’s refugee policy outside the National Conference at 12 midday tomorrow at the Melbourne Convention Centre.
I hope and doubt that there’ll be any physical violence but who knows.
■■■■■■ sad to read about the great things the ALP has actually achieved. They’re not like that now.
Just liberal lite now.
An absolute insult to their past.
Labor is still the same Party it was in 1887. Times have changed, and society is very different and Political Parties of all hues reflect society.
I could rant on about my first ALP branch meeting in 1969, but it is not much different today. Back then Whitlam sold his principles to win Leadership, and did the deal with the Catholics to enshrine Government money for their schools. Hawke’s idea of consensus was all about being popular, and if I read the history of the Parliamentary Labor Party, the only changes are more women and lack of mustaches now.
Labor has never been a Left Wing Party, and any attempts at socialism have been squashed at elections.
People who attend demonstrations are by and large attention seeking morons. I don't think I have ever seen one of these demonstrations actually achieve a change.
That people in Australia actually think they have something to demonstrate publicly about shows how self absorbed they are.
If you want to make a change, then get support for your ideas and run for Parliament. Otherwise just shut up and leave the rest of us alone.
I forgive you your Youth, DT.
As one who protested in Melbourne streets against the Vietnam War with thousands of others, fought police at Olympic Park when the Springboks visited and was on the front line at Docks booing Peter Reith, I reckon protesting does get results.
We pulled out of Vietnam after a change of Government, with voters supporting us protesters. We blackballed the evil Afrikaan Government which finally led to there defeat, and well booing Reith made me feel good.
Democracy is about our right to protest, and if you take that away, then we will all get guns next and we don’t want that.
Lenin, Stalin, Zedong, Pol Pot, Kim Jong, Chavez etc... would never hurt a fly!
since when did the left represent dictatorship? The far left is where civil rights, feminism, social equality, anti war and environmental movements where born.
The Union Movement you mean
The union movement has a lot to be proud of, but it’s pretty hard to justify the the above list as being among them.
Understandably, unions are mostly concerned about the welfare of their members. Which is entirely fair enough (that’s what unions are FOR, after all…), but at times it can mean they oppose necessary change. You can’t argue that, for instance, Arthur ‘Two Wongs don’t make a white’ Calwell was a shining beacon of hope in the civil rights and anti-racism debates. Or that the modern CFMEU has been a beacon of environmental progessivism, especially when it comes to issues like old-growth logging.
As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said, but the ALP has solidly supported the last three foreign wars Australia has engaged in - Iraq, Afghanistan, and thirdly and most unforgivably stupidly, Iraq again.
HM, I like most of your posts but it is obvious from this post that you have not much knowledge of Australian history.
It is an egregious mistake to infer that Arthur Calwell was a racist from that remark that he is associated with. Please look up the context in which he said it in Parliament: The Menzies government was wrong in keeping out a man whose surname was Wong under the the WAP; even keeping out two men called Wong would not make that decision correct or “white” under the WAP. The wit in his remark is lost in history and is unfairly used to impugn a good man.
As for your remark:
“As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said”
Well, I am just amazed… the unions tried to prevent Menzies shipping Australian iron to Japan in the 1930’s knowing that they would be turning that iron into weapons to kill Australians and others, Look up why Menzies was called “Pig Iron Bob”.
While you are looking up history, look up who it was that led the largest peaceful demonstrations in Australia’s history: it would be Dr Jim Cairns. The moratorium marches he led prevented more Australians from going to Viet Nam to fight in a futile war.
Also look up who stopped conscripting 18 year old Australians to go fight in wars we should never be in: that would be Gough Whitlam’s labour government as soon as they were elected in December 1972.
I could go on, but I hope you and other young people will get the message.
It is really unfortunate that even intelligent people do not know about the problems that Australians have previously suffered, and who has rectified them, and how. It is precisely this ignorance that the Tories rely on - and encourage by reducing education, media diversity etc.
Finally I am sorry that this post is probably too long for the TLDNR generation. Maybe someone can cut it up into paragraphs for them.
I reckon instead of the last line you could have posted some links or suggested some books for further reading instead…
Lenin, Stalin, Zedong, Pol Pot, Kim Jong, Chavez etc... would never hurt a fly!
since when did the left represent dictatorship? The far left is where civil rights, feminism, social equality, anti war and environmental movements where born.
The Union Movement you mean
The union movement has a lot to be proud of, but it’s pretty hard to justify the the above list as being among them.
Understandably, unions are mostly concerned about the welfare of their members. Which is entirely fair enough (that’s what unions are FOR, after all…), but at times it can mean they oppose necessary change. You can’t argue that, for instance, Arthur ‘Two Wongs don’t make a white’ Calwell was a shining beacon of hope in the civil rights and anti-racism debates. Or that the modern CFMEU has been a beacon of environmental progessivism, especially when it comes to issues like old-growth logging.
As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said, but the ALP has solidly supported the last three foreign wars Australia has engaged in - Iraq, Afghanistan, and thirdly and most unforgivably stupidly, Iraq again.
HM, I like most of your posts but it is obvious from this post that you have not much knowledge of Australian history.
It is an egregious mistake to infer that Arthur Calwell was a racist from that remark that he is associated with. Please look up the context in which he said it in Parliament: The Menzies government was wrong in keeping out a man whose surname was Wong under the the WAP; even keeping out two men called Wong would not make that decision correct or “white” under the WAP. The wit in his remark is lost in history and is unfairly used to impugn a good man.
As for your remark:
“As for the anti-war movement, well, I don’t know what the actual leadership of the unions at the time said”
Well, I am just amazed… the unions tried to prevent Menzies shipping Australian iron to Japan in the 1930’s knowing that they would be turning that iron into weapons to kill Australians and others, Look up why Menzies was called “Pig Iron Bob”.
While you are looking up history, look up who it was that led the largest peaceful demonstrations in Australia’s history: it would be Dr Jim Cairns. The moratorium marches he led prevented more Australians from going to Viet Nam to fight in a futile war.
Also look up who stopped conscripting 18 year old Australians to go fight in wars we should never be in: that would be Gough Whitlam’s labour government as soon as they were elected in December 1972.
I could go on, but I hope you and other young people will get the message.
It is really unfortunate that even intelligent people do not know about the problems that Australians have previously suffered, and who has rectified them, and how. It is precisely this ignorance that the Tories rely on - and encourage by reducing education, media diversity etc.
Finally I am sorry that this post is probably too long for the TLDNR generation. Maybe someone can cut it up into paragraphs for them.
I reckon instead of the last line you could have posted some links or suggested some books for further reading instead…
Sorry, here are a few links for you:
So when I decided to cut “so you don’t look like a pretentious twat” off the end of my post, it was a mistake?
