Except Mr Mango, what @G-Unit is saying I mostly agree with.
I disagree about the acquisition of lands, as I have a different experience on this and also on the approach of the IDF. But the rest is on the money.
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I have exactly the same opinion and canāt stand Netanyahu or in fact any members f the government being formed.
Even the far left in Israel know there is no Apartheid.
I can see it in the malls, in the parks, on buses, in the media, hospitals, the news the courts and more.
The entire establishment is now working overtime and expending massive resources to help reduce the phenomenon of local gangs shootings within Arab cities that is causing hundreds of deaths per year.
The Israeli Arabs are a minority and successive governments have been making significant efforts to improve their status in all walks of life. This includes the previous Netanyahu government and the more recent broad coalition.
Am I a bozo because i have a more detailed view that looks at the larger picture considering the complexity of the situation, successes and failures?
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Questions ( genuine)
Do Palestinians have automatic rights to Israeli citizenship?
If not, what are the criteria for citizenship?
Can they be stripped of Israeli citizenship?
Do Israeli provisions on extradition apply equally to Israeli Jewish citizens and others?
I have been doing great business there for the last 30 years. Love the place and the people, and have made great friends travelling all through neighbouring lands as well.
Really complex place with faults all round, and too much outside interference from Arab States and Superpower Nations. My friends who have all served in the IDF say that they are directed to use deadly force, but they consider it justified.
Land stealing is an emotive term, but their is enough evidence on actions taken by Israeli Government to give it a lot of credence, and you cannot ignore the Absentee Properties Act as complete BS
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I just canāt reconcile with the idea that the rights of Arab Israelis (changing landscape) somehow justify the paralysis of the whole Palestinian state (if you can call it a state). Israel has a right to coexist, would just be nice if Palestine could be afforded the same opportunity as Israel to prosper equally as much.
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Might find some answers in here.
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So all of you who are talking about Israeli occupation of the Palestinian State, can you tell me the difference between that occupation and the Anglo-Saxon occupations of countries like Australia, New Zealand, USA and Canada.
All of those countries had existing populaces but were overcome by the might of modern arms and technology.
So, whilst you appear to think that Israel should give up land for a separate Palestinian State, do you think that the aforementiond countries should also do the same?
I donāt want to get too deep into answering the first part of your post, as that will open up an entirely new can of worms. Iāll just say that colonialism and genocide take many forms, all horrible.
The government of Israel has on several occasions agreed to respect the 1968 borders which followed the conclusion of the Six Day War. Objectively they have not. Concessions with regards to West Bank settlements would be a productive start.
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Iād ask them to respect the 1967 borders but that is impossible now.
Your examples are of secular nations not a religious nation and the right of one faith superseding another.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/us-un-human-rights/563276/
The UNHRC is widely accepted as a joke led by many human rights abusers over the years including Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Ethiopia, Qatar, Russia, China and others.
Using them in your argument does the exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
Iām new to both Bomber blitz and this thread. A lot to unpack in all this.
I would like to note your comment regarding faith vs secular is a little bit disingenuous.
While Jews view Israel as their homeland about 25% of its citizens are not Jewish.
If you would like to make that argument, I ask how many Jews, Christians Druze live in Gaza?
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Within the report
Lynk said a number of recent reports and opinions issued by respected Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights organizations have come to the same conclusion on the practice of apartheid by Israel. He added that leading international personalities ā including former UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor and former Israeli Attorney General Michael Ben-Yair ā have also all called this apartheid.
I guess they fall into your category of groupd/individuals to ignore.
With respect, thatās rubbishā¦itās about the rights of peopleā¦Palestinian/Israeli, White Australia/Aboriginal people, White New Zealand/Maori, White US & Canadian/Indigenous Americans.
Theyāre not asking for the right to worship their godsā¦they all want land that they feel has been wrongfully taken from them.
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But isnāt the claim of land based on religion? The other examples arenāt a contest about existing peoples claim to the same land.
The other examples arenāt about existing peoples claims on the same lands, they are one peoples occupation of an existing indigenous population.
I agree at the end of the day its about rights of people and obviously there is an imbalance in all examples.
When you say Apartheid. Are you referring to an apartheid within the citizens of Israel (Jewish Israeliās vs non-Jewish Israeliās) or between Israel and Palestinians?
Have you been to Israel? What were your observations in relation to above?
I want to understand more.
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Yes. Specifically Michael Ben-Yair is a very extreme leftist whose opinions are way way out of the mainstream. For every Michael Ben-Yair I will find you thousands of people with similar intelligence, experience, education to give a diametrically opposing view.
Regarding the others there are no shortage of anti Israel people who will give you fodder for such fallacies.
Is the earth flat because i can find you 5 people who are adamant that it is with considered arguments?
Should abortion be banned even in cases of rape and incest because supreme court justices and politicians who went to Harvard and Yale, and respected religious leaders have such an opinion?
I will even find you otherwise intelligent people who will insist that there is no climate change.
Noā¦the claim is that the State of Israel exists on stolen Palestinian landā¦Palestine dates back prior to the birth of Christ (and therefore well before Islam existed) so the claim is historically based.
Itās just far easier to say itās Islam V Judaism.
Religion cannot be taken out of the equationā¦but the claim is not religious basedā¦and if it is, then the Jews were there before the Islamists.
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Less the UNCHR being run by an abuser, than the one sided debate in the UN.
Israel refuses to engage, western countries, like Australia with a two State policy, stay out of the debate, leaving it to the anti Israelis to voice their opinions.
So the report does not get debated on its merits.
Under these circumstances it cannot be construed that Australia and others reject the UN report in its entiretyā¦
Also to note that Ukraine has voted to register concerns in the UN about Israel actions outside its internationally recognised borders.
To note also that the UNCHR presence in Ukraine is welcomed and cited in condemning Russian actions.
The above cannot be taken to infer in any way that Israel and Russia are as bad as each other.
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There was a Jewish population there too.
