..."but, hey let's put on the rose coloured glasses, back our favourites because they wear the colours..."Ahm…hello?
WTF do you think supporters do, actually?
I've seen a bit of "we get XYZ marginal player, they'll get lots of game time with us", or "the youngsters will be able to develop in the firsts". Isn't this a load of crap? I mean, if we say we'll play with 4 talls between rucks and forwards, and ALL the bench goes to small mids/forwards, then there are 12 positions in the team for small midfielder and forward options.We’ve already got Watson, Goddard, Heppell, Stanton, Zaha, Myers, Hocking, Colyer, Zerrett and Howlett as pretty certain starters. That’s 10 spots. That leaves two spots for developing youngsters. Like Laverde, Langford, McKenna, Jerrett, Fantasia, Edwards, NOB, etc. TWO. Now, there will be a few injuries, but the hope/plan is that its less than previous years, isn’t it? And of course, Dempsey and Cooney will also be fighting for slots.
So does anyone else think other fringe players will be looking at our side and going “hell no”. Even besides the SAGA, if they pay attention to the opportunities Edwards, Aylett, Giles have had they’d be pretty worried.
And is anyone else concerned about how the hell we develop our next side if some of those older guys don’t make way for young blood to be tried out, and get experience? If we are planning on some of those guys having youngsters win games based on development and not merit - shouldn’t we be letting them know, and possibly trading them?
Just seems like a bad situation all round, and EFC is blindly running down a very dark path.
Imagine… 3 years have gone by, and the usual trading, delisting, retiring, recruiting, F/A, F/S have eventuated, under great management and development. 3 years from now. Now re-read your post and see how much sense it makes.
My point is - it is a sliding window, not a fixed painting.
Can we put a lid on Ants?? More long winded negative invective than anyone since Tony Abutt Rabid.
Shouldn’t this just be in the Lid On thread?
Edit - or is it a question to be posted in the Lid Off thread?
Its my view point, and I'm wondering if others think the same. If you think its pessimistic rather than realistic, you could point out the reasons you think that, making the thread a happier place.Potentially.
“Just seems like a bad situation all round, and EFC is blindly running down a very dark path.”
So your conjecture is supposed to be realistic not pessimistic?
Do people need to keep creating new threads for every idea that pops into their head?
Don’t disagree with the premise, but don’t think the situation is as acute as you suggest.
For a start, yes, there will be injuries. Of that nominal starting 10 of yours I’d suggest across the season you might average 8 playing in a game, if that. On your maths that leaves about 4 spots for developing players.
In regards to the starting 10, it includes Zerrett, who could be classified as a developing player, plus Colyer, Heppell and Zaha who are still of an age to remain long term prospects for the team.
I think we need Watson and Goddard now for their leadership, as much as their playing ability. They’re pillars of the team. To a lesser extent so to are Myers, Hocking and Stanton.
It’s my view that we will be a competitive team when the developing players start squeezing out the established players. Right now Howlett gets a gig because he’s fierce at the ball, but rough at the edges. Hocking has a bit more polish, but still lacks finesse. I would hope there is severe pressure placed on them, and others as their form declines, by the good form of the young players on the list.
All this presumes - and requires - a more ruthless selection policy than we’ve had in recent times. I hope for that to be one of the things that Worsfold brings to the table.
Beyond next year I think we’ll be seeing the retirement of a few. Come 2017 I would expect a team 40-50% different to the team who took the field this year, and most of the replacements will be young developing types.
I don’t get your arithmetic. I’d say Watson, Goddard, Heppell, Stanton, Colyer, Zerrett, Hooker, Hurley, Daniher, Hibberd and Baguley are locks. That leaves a lot spots for random new guys in decent form.
Its my view point, and I’m wondering if others think the same. If you think its pessimistic rather than realistic, you could point out the reasons you think that, making the thread a happier place.
Potentially.
Always great to have someone start a post that is straight out negative and pessimistic.
Yes Ant, I agree.
I had 2015 as our best chance for premiership glory based purely on the age profile of the team. As such, topping up and getting Free Agents has been fine. As an example, I was wrapped when we picked up Cooney last year.
But now some of our best players are on that downward slope in terms of output. We’ve had some retirements to great players. I do not see us as a premiership threat next year. Suddenly, players like Cooney are a liability.
I expect a massive correction at the end of next year. People will put it down to Woosha getting used to the players and making a judgement call. But it will also be about where the list is at, and investing in the draft.
We needed ASADA/WADA over and onfield success this year. We didn’t get it. Now we are in for a long rebuild.
I see your point but I also see this as other have said… our team is not that bad… it was just mentally stuffed!
2016 slogan... "EFC - "Blindly running down a very dark path."Or … “How fuckedup are we?”
When you think about it - it really doesn’t matter how dark the path is if you’re blind.
So no points for logic, either.
But, can we blind turn and get out of danger?
I see your point but I also see this as other have said... our team is not that bad.... it was just mentally stuffed!
And had a shitload of injuries to key players as well…
This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.
I for one don’t think we should start rebuilding now (and Dodoro thinks this as well from that AFL dot com interview with Cam Twomey). I think we can challenge in 2016 (and should have challenged this year). If we don’t make it to a prelim in 2016, then I would start to look towards saying goodbye to some older players.
people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time.
I think people want this every year. Players need to be made to earn their spots IMO. If an older player is dropping off and a younger player is pushing for selection, I trust the coaches to make those calls. If our older guys are firing, then we can make a prelim next year IMO. If one or more of them are not firing, I trust the coaches to drop them.
This year was just a ■■■■■ year. I don’t see any ramifications for this year’s shiteieness to flow into next year.
This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.
I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.
I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.
This was not meant to be a REBUILD EVERYTHING thread, unlike yaco implies. It was meant more to explore the juxtaposition that people want some shiny youth, they want to give some fringe players a chance (both of which I agree with), but nobody seems to want to push anyone out of the side (or the list), and thinks these new kids will get plenty of game time. I was curious if it was just me who thought these desires are at odds (and is worried about it) or if others disagreed.I’m in the camp that thinks we can turn this around quickly, I hear it all the time that we have an old, aging list… Watson, Goddard etc on the way down. Lets all not forget that Mitchell, as an example, is 3 years older than both.
I think with clear air (no saga) that our older players like Jobe/Goddard have a lot to give. 23 rounds + finals is a marathon and i think with smart development and rotation that kids can still develop and have a chance within the senior team without giving the older experienced player a chance to perform at their best, the challenge is getting the balance right.
Some players play longer… some don’t.
Players for the EFC that played past the year they turned 31 since 2002
Salmon 37
Alessio 32
Camporeale 32
Hird 34
Lucas 32
Hille 32
Chapman 34
Fletcher 40
That’s a pretty exclusive list, and there aren’t that many blokes you look back on and think they should’ve kept going.
Current list turning 31 in 2016… Watson, Goddard, Cooney.
As others have suggested, Watson spending more time forward and Goddard more time at HBF should be positive for club and players. You’d hope one of them hangs around until mid 30s because its a big hole to fill if they all drop off within a year of each other.
Do people need to keep creating new threads for every idea that pops into their head?
You are aware you dont HAVE to open or read through them right?
for the sake of the exercise if you draw a line through everyone over 29 what does our team look like
bags hurls stein/pears
hibbard hooker gleeson
laverde hepp zaha
Luenberger hocking zerret
colyer smack langford
edwards JD Connor
myers howlett dempsey Fanta
emerg: Jerrett tbell N’Ob
we are about to bring 3 top 25 picks
the list situation isn’t as dire as some here think though there are some structural problems no dbout. We’ve brought in some cover for the ruck issue, and we may get some cover for KP issue if we can nab brown or a promising young KP.
I also reckon Francis, if we can pick him up, would walk into that side, probably in stein’s spot for now.
The backline should be fine for at least 3 years (hooker will turn 30 in 3 years). We are adding pace through the youngsters which will help with our ball movement. Cross our fingers that we don’t have to play without a ruckman and 3 of our best 4 ball winners for the most of the year. The forward line will show some natural progression. Wada will be behind us.
That side could be competitive and probably fall just short of finals. Put jobe, stanton and BJ into it and see what happens.
As for opportunities there is clearly one available for a 3rd tall and gleeson’s spot is far from set. Up forward there is also an opportunity for a 3rd tall and a small forward. In the midfield i’d be hoping the fanta and laverde become permanent fixtures.