But faith gets exploited by those in power. And it’s not just faith that gets exploited by those in power.
Some of the Ballarat victims told parents about the abuse, only to be beaten for lying. Some of saddest things that I have ever heard.
3 Likes
The power of religion.
People become willing to sacrifice family and friends to keep in the good books.
1 Like
Victims of who?
Muslims and their sharia law.
Who do you think?
3 Likes
I’m not sure if Bacchus is referring to Pell or someone else.
And their in lies some of the sneakiness of those out to get Pell.
They infer it is Pell when it is actually someone else. It’s been a concerted whisper campaign because for whatever reason they just dont like him.
Bacchus, if you are referring to Pell then come out and say it.
If you are not referring to him, then disclose it so people will not jump to conclusions (Although sadly I suspect that is your intention.)
Nope you are the one being micheavous.
Ballarat is widely known as one of the epicentres of abuse. Most people reading @Bacchusfox comments would understand he is talking about the wider issue.
It’s you that’s trying to create a stawman that we are trying to blame Pell for all historic abuse. This is not happening, no matter how much you want to twist things to suit your argument. The only comments are that pell was a leader and should have done more to stop, or his role in the cover up. No one is inplying that pell is ridsdale.
1 Like
Its not good enough that ‘most people’ would understand. That implies that some people would not understand and therefore Pell is being stained unfairly.
We are talking about crimes that are rightfully considered heinous. If people want to make comment then they need to make sure they are very careful with how these comments are worded.
Like he’s gonna sue.
2 Likes
Just because you don’t know something doesn’t mean others won’t.
In fact, if you make assumptions on the knowledge of others based on your own understanding then I’d be offended that you think so little of people.
1 Like
You don’t realise, do you?
The reason the victims were punished for lying was that their parents really believed they were lying. People back then didn’t believe priests did that sort of thing.
And before you leap in and accuse me of defending abusive parents, I’m not. The parents should have been more responsive to what their children were saying. If it happened now they would be.
But back then abuse of children by the clergy was not in the news, it was not discussed, it was not thought of, it was not on the radar. The parents believed their priest to be a good man, serving his parishioners as well as he could. (And in fact most of them were.). The reaction to a child saying that Father X had groped him was that Father X would never have done any such thing, he was not that sort of person. Therefore the child must be lying and deserved punishment for spreading filthy lies.
They were wrong, but that’s what they believed. They didn’t believe they were covering up anything.
1 Like
I think most people would probably agree with you about the beliefs at that time. The most likely reason victims weren’t believed was lack of awareness that such a thing could be possible, as well as a reluctance to want to accept that it was possible.
I also think most of the anger or animosity directed towards the hierarchy of the catholic church (and by default Pell as the most recognisable member of that hierarchy) is because of their role in fostering that lack of awareness and then there response to effectively brush it under the carpet and hope it all went away. This was through shuffling “problem” priests to different regions, not supporting the victims who did come forward and then paying compensation that looked to the outside world as hush money. They only appeared to publicly acknowledge the problem and the damage caused once they were dragged kicking and screaming into the public eye.
I’ll make no comment on Pell or his character, but the whole catholic church is carrying a massive stain that it only tried to hide, rather than confront and fix. They went for brand protection over looking after their members. I’m not religious and don’t claim to have anymore than a superficial knowledge of the do’s and don’ts, but that mindset appears to be fully at odds with what the church is supposed to represent.
Edit: I’ve also been reading the recent articles about the Melbourne Jewish school where the principle was accused of sexual assault of students and then fled back to Israel once the allegations were raised. Her airfare was booked and paid for by the school board the same day they heard the accusations, and the principle has been living in Israel since, avoiding extradition hearings by claiming to have mental illness that prevented her from attending. My point is that it isn’t just the catholic church that has such issues and that nowadays there can be no excuse for an organisation or institution, religious or not, to turn a blind eye or protect anyone involved in such behaviour.
7 Likes
I agree with that, but it was a bit more complex. First, there was little or no appreciation of the harm that could be done to the victims; a boy who had been groped would get over it and no real harm done. And there are certainly cases where the victim has not suffered any
Here’s an example of the general attitude of society at the time.
4 Likes
Of course I realise. I realise that what you have just said is 100% correct.
And I realise that the Catholic church, as with many others, has systematically exploited this trust and obedience for centuries. The priests who subjected children to vile acts knew they would get away with it for the reasons you stated above.
I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing with me about something or…?
1 Like
Check out the Manny Waks story - the family were ostracised from their community.
Not all parents didn’t believe.
They were told to forgive.
3 Likes
I don’t think you guys understand. Pell is clearly not guilty of anything or ever will be once the court case is over, because Trip says so.
And if you want to wait for justice to run its course, it’s because you are a lefty criminal idiot who doesn’t understand how the law works. Just ask him.
I think its you who doesn’t understand. There is a presumption of innocence and given the cases against him seem very tenuous from what is publicly available then perhaps people like yourself need to wait for the court case to be over before you start to hang, draw and quarter him.
Mate, you are the one saying the charges are minor and spurious.
1 Like