Surprised about construction, would have thought the CFMEU would never allow anything like that, considering how vocal they are on any sort of issue and they never ever have double standards
2 Likes
So im guessing Mr Lee did check that the people in the survey didnât have previous work experience. I know when I was at uni I had part time work in my field which helped me get a full time role when I graduated. Not sure about anyone else but when I went for jobs, some (not many) wanted to actually see your academic transcript. He took that into account too, didnât he?
I know as much as you.
I just shared it as especially there were discussions around the financial sector and pay gaps.
I know I havenât worked in as many places as others but Iâm still a bit baffled by it, especially as workers talk and companies are very mindful of their image regarding the treatment of women.
At the last place I worked we had a GM (male) and 5 senior managers. Ops manger (male), supply chain (female) sales (male) financial controller (me) HR (female).
HR and supply chain were 1 & 3 (after GM) in pay ranks, ops manager in the middle. Now, thatâs just one company of 100 employees and there are probably 500 other companies with the same number of employees so itâs obviously a small sample size, but I still struggle to see the gender gap being as big when EVERYTHING is equal everywhere else (experience, education etc)
At the executive level, and a little below, you get what you barter for.
I defended my daughterâs right to get a haircut. ABC News.
This reeks of the baker not making a cake for a same sex marriage celebration.
Why did she take her daughter to this barber?
Did she know of the barberâs attitude beforehand?
Just what is wrong with going to a hairdresser who will accommodate her and her daughterâs wish?
Methinks someone is trying to make a point.
And using your children to advance your own prejudices is appalling.
I am â â â â â â â sick of it. â â â â off.
From my experience in working for a very long time, I tend to agree.
None of the Companies I worked for had different rates for man and woman doing the same job, and awards I am aware of do not discriminate.
All I can conclude is that it is about women doing lower paid occupations.
1 Like
Pretty much the same as a same-sex couple wanting to be married by someone whoâs announced they wonât be performing such ceremonies. There are plenty who will.
Or someone going to St Vincents asking for an abortion.
I suspect it is performance ratings and the $ that flow from them that are still causing the imbalance.
Unionised workforces are very prescriptive in remuneration i.e. do work of A get paid $X. Non unionised workforces are not, there are usually earnings bands offering a salary range and giving employers discretion.
For example your junior position that you start off in might have 3 bands. 1st band $55-60k second band $60-65k and 3rd band $65-$75k. With the general rule of thumb being you spend a year in each band and getting a small pay rise each year and at the end fo the 3rd year ready for a team leader/manager role on $80k.
How the actual $ work out for each employee as they progress will be different. Most companies want to reward good performance so if your performance rating is just average you will get the lower of the new band, if youâre a high performer you will get towards the upper band.
So 1 employee at the end of the 2nd year as a high performer will get $73k in year 3 plus a $4k bonus. Another employee rated average will be on $68k and a $2k bonus. So there is a $5k difference for the two employees doing the exact same role. Note if a Man ends up being employee 1 this is legal as its not sex based but performance based.
Historically men have done better in performance ratings as being seen to have unconsciously more intangible qualities i.e. outgoing, confident, team player, social, leader etc. Not to mention studies show they push harder in the ratings process itself. Therefore historically men were better represented in the higher ratings (probably divorced from their true output) and thus received more money.
There has been huge efforts to combat this for example unconscious bias training in a lot of large organisations. So in the linked article a lot of gaps have come down and the biggest drops are in the professional classes where this had been taken seriously.
3 Likes
I donât think it says that. It says that female graduates on graduation earn less than male graduates, but it doesnât say female graduates earn less than male graduates holding the same degree and doing the same job.
5 Likes
Thats what i came to as well. In the same organisation we had a receptionist, customer service agent and accounts clerk, all 3 were women and those 3 wages were towards the lower end of the scale. Even when the accounts clerk left and was replaced by a male, the rate stayed the same.
Wouldnât that be part of the issue?
30 years ago, women were not seen as very good mathematicians. We know now that there is no discernible difference in the capacity for maths but that the social expectations were different.
This issue is as much about lifting or shifting those expectations.
But, it also highlights that regardless of your one or two experiences, across 4 million or so workers, promotions and bonuses still favour men.
4 Likes
Well these 3 ladies were in their 60s and just looking to get to 65 to retire, basically doing it to get out of the house.
Just wondering, how many part time/casual positions are filled by women compared to men?
So 25-20 years ago, girls were more likely to be encouraged to take up maths and the sciences in general, and now are about 25-30 years old.
I canât say Iâve ever met or even heard of anyone who in any way shape or form supports the idea of paying women less than men for the same work - so how does it happen, where is it actually happening & if we can assume a near unanimous objection to it, not to mention laws preventing it then why canât it be stopped immediately?
In the press conference there was a statement along the lines of âit doesnât matter if its nurses, butchers or lawyers, women are getting paid lessâ. So why canât we start there? Can this study name & shame at least 1 hospital, clinic, nursing home or other workplace where the female nurses are paid less because of gender? Is this a failing of the nurses union or are these non-unionised workplaces? Are these nurses unaware of their rights to equal pay or is there failures at Fairwork Aust? I canât understand why this is an issue & why it canât be incredibly easy to fix. Maybe Wim or anyone else in the industry may be able to explain how this is possible & suggest fixes.
The article didnât really talk about the gap in hours worked. We know men on average work more hours so did the study simply assume that women should be paid the same for less hours?
My honours year in 1974, top student in both maths and maths stats were women, and another female mathematics students retired as a professor at Melbourne a year or two back.
The maths one got her PhD at Oxford, and in her fifties, came back to Melbourne, qualified as an actuary and worked with a mate of mine in general insurance and data analytics.
@Ants would have a pretty good idea of that world, although i must admit, females are in a significant minority in the actuarial world.
2 Likes
Because its not black and white and generally not illegal.
If you pay high performers more than average performers it is perfectly legal. But what if high performers are 80% male 20% female despite the workplace having a 50/50 split.
Itâs a cultural problem that takes a lot of effort to unwind. The only blunt instrument would be quotas but watch people flip their lid over that
1 Like
I finished my degree in 1971 and there were as many females doing Pure Maths as males at Melbourne Uni.
1 Like
2 out of 12 in stats. I would have thought about the same fraction in Maths.
Nurses are on an award.
All of the grunts are.
Doctors and specialists, yeahâŚI dunnoâŚthey seem to work for themselves in a lot of ways. How they set themselves up, how much extra work they choose to do (or have the opportunity to do), how much they do for themselves and how much for a public hospital, thatâs all going to vary.
Itâs admin where the salaries are flexible and, as I mentioned before, very much down to what you negotiate.
I know in just one area of one hospital/health group, they have a salary budget. How the Directors choose to use that is up to them.
And you could argue that a couple of people in that department are doing âthe same jobâ, but in fact they have complimentary skill sets. They all can, but 1 is good at A, 2 is good at B and so onâŚ
If a required player is getting antsy, then they might get an extra 10k just because.
If they just sit there happily doing their job for ten years then theyâre going to get what theyâre legally entitled to and not a lot more.
Iâm surprised that this doesnât seem to be the norm, as no-one is relating to it.