Very clearly a setup right from the start. I agree with your take on the security guarantee disappearing then a cover up. Why else would he have gone to DC.
All we can seriously pray for now is the EU stepping up, taking the minerals deal and supporting further.
Boot Orban/Hungary out and a straight swap for Ukraine.
7 Likes
ā ā ā ā
2 Likes
Anything in particular Benny? Or just an overall assessment?
1 Like
I just caught up on Trumpās ambush of Zelensky. Planned theatre to put the blame on Ukraine after Putin refused to make any concessions that would lead to a permanent peace. So transparent to anyone but the GOP base.
They crossed the Rubicon, aligned the White House with Russia and only bad things can happen from here.
21 Likes
Gonna throw out a hypothetical.
Can anyone see Trump sending US made weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine?
Heāll just dress it up as securing American jobs with another country buying US made goods.
1 Like
Oh for some senators packing switchblades
LOL hereās Joe to justify his heroes heroing heroically, not enough thanking them in there Joe. You accept trump on face value in almost everything he says. The MF has sligned the MFing USA with MFing Russia. One day that will sink in.
4 Likes
What deal? There was no security deal by the US, that wasnāt on the table.
What about the agressor, where are the consequences for Russia.
Itās up to Europe now to find a just path forward.
11 Likes
I love the whole āZelenskyy doesnāt want peaceā line.
Of course he wants peace, thatās why he didnāt invade anyone. But his country was attacked. A desire for peace is overriden by a desire to be able to live in peace. If your going to throw the ādoesnāt want peaceā rock, then throw it at the nation that started it.
There is only one way Ukraine can live in peace (maybe two). And Zelenskyy is right to be chasing that as a desired outcome.
14 Likes
10 Likes
Trump wanted isolationism, heās gonna get it
23 Likes
I believe that providing Ukraine has the $ there is nothing that Trump can legally do to prevent a private US company selling weapon systems to them via a European NATO proxy.
He could limit sales to NATO allies via the Arms Export Control Act via executive order but it would be illegal and unprecedented
Unfortunately illegal and unprecedented is the norm now though
It will be up to European arms manufacturers now I think
The other big loss for Ukraine is that they are taking away US intelligence support.
Trump is basically setting up the conditions for a bloodbath in heavily populated civilian cities
5 Likes
The Ukrainians have been asking for peace for a long time dating back to 2014 when Putin started his invasion of Ukraine. 2022 was just part 2.
Both Europe and the US wimped it in 2014, then again in 2022. Obama refused to give the Ukrainians lethal weapons to fight Putin and in 2022 Biden refused to bring troops. Ditto Europe.
Iām sceptical but hopeful this time we see a peace deal that comes with some sort of commitment to a peacekeeping force or a real security agreement with Europe and the US. If it doesnāt then Zelensky shouldnāt sign or agree to anything and Ukraine will fight on.
12 Likes
Do you think Trump has failed Ukraine?
4 Likes
Some would have had the US engaging in open warfare with Russia, or at least provoking them into fronts, a decade ago, the same sort of folks who might agree today with Orban that āweak men make warā, or that Hilary was an evil warmonger. Thankfully Donald got in and Russia looks to be resuming its Peace Through Annihilation policy alongside the isolationist USA and itās Peace Through Strength doctrine which includes attempting to freeze arms shipments, medical aid, intelligence, and power grid repair assistance to an oppressed ally, all of which were initiated under Biden (who also didnāt do enough with all the support he was getting from the totally genuine and helpful MAGA Republicans).
Thank goodness the man who shifted the embassy to Jerusalem is in charge, yeah? Gaza Riviera and Ukraine Christmas with hammers and sickles dripping bloody down the fir branches.
"By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagonās Defense Security Cooperation Agency.
That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles.
While it never provided lethal aid, many of the items that the Obama administration did provide were seen as critical to Ukraineās military. Part of the $250 million assistance package that the Trump administration announced (then froze and later unfroze) included many of the same items that were provided under Obama, including medical equipment, night vision gear and counter-artillery radar.
5 Likes
The whole thing yesterday was a terrible day for Ukraine. As the son of a Ukrainian born parent I feel very let down about what happened yesterday, Itās the cherry on top of a supersized shiit sandwich that the Krankers have been eating for some time. Yesterday was a stupid idiotic schoolyard spectacle in front of the whole world. It should never have happened.
We will see how any āpeace dealā plays out. Iām hopeful but highly sceptical.
Trump might get a solution or he might not. Until we see how this plays out nobody knows what Putin, the US and Europe will
Agree to. We are all speculating about where it might land. I do feel like Ukraine wants peace. But it also wants ongoing security. If there is not a security arrangement then Zelensky shouldnāt agree to anything.
If Trump doesnāt get there with a peace deal it will be the continuation of at least three presidents who have let Ukraine down.
How much do you know about Ukrainian history @saladin ?
3 Likes
For those that might want to read a different view to Obama the saviour
3 Likes
Only what Iāve read.
But Iām not talking specifically about yesterday. Iām wondering how the son of a Ukrainian parent is feeling about the actions and rhetoric from Trump and Co towards Ukraine from the moment he took power, if not before. Do you think Trump has thrown Zelenssky / Ukraine under a bus?
Edit - and your next post probably just settled any doubts I may have had 
1 Like
Iām assuming you mean that I am promoting that view? I absolutely donāt, what I did was point out that the first Trump administration, in a climate much more heated than during Obamaās presidency, essentially copy pasted his package to Ukraine and froze it in an attempt to extort that nation, while the Biden admin committed extraordinary aid which Trump is now cutting, including shipments already processed for delivery.
You keep saying things like āmaybe Trump will get a result, weāll see how it plays outā. Of course thereāll be results, lots of them. If, as you claim, you have Ukrainian family what are their feelings about being cut off from this aid, including humanitarian aid? About their President being treated like scum by the same leader who tried to extort him the first time around?
3 Likes