Sorry Saga - “It’s actually quite funny people thinking they know more than they actually do”

Football Discussion The Sorry Saga
5990

If he was a potential top-up player according to afl.com when he helped injure Zaka’s knee (quoted above), what do you think he was when he actually played in the NAB Challenge for Essendon against St Kilda in March 2015 when he was still a VFL player. He was a top-up player.

Hartley tried out for the top up list in Feb 2015, but you are right, I remembered incorrectly, he failed the medical and didn’t get on the list, but the process of him trying out helped EFC learn more about him.

I think a couple of people are getting confused about the likes of Walla, Brown and Hartley because it was a standard gripe in 2016 that they were often referred to as “top up” players from that year, when they actually were on the main list by that stage. The journo’s were confusing the 2015 top ups (potential top up in Hartley’s case) with the 2016 ones.

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5991

AMT was a rookie never a top-up.
And I’m sure Hartley and Brown were on EFC’s list BEFORE the 10 top-ups were recruited.
I’m still going through old paperwork and will get back to you.

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5992

I’m talking about 2015

5993

Just going through player list for 2016 file date Dec 2015. Hartley and Brown are on it.
This is before any suspensions (CAS verdict given 11Jan 2016 suspended from 31Mar2015 till 13Nov2016) and no need for top-ups at that time.
Still checking.

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5994

?? Where are you getting such a list?

5995

My hard drive. I keep (nearly) everything. ( OCD, ? )
Walla was picked up as a rookie in the 2015 draft BEFORE suspensions and the need for top-ups.
He also was not a top-up.

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5996

Outstanding point - is an irregular heart rate aside effect?

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5997

You can’t just leak details from ASADA interviews can you? :wink:

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5998

With new mediation side effects are largely unknown but elevated heartrate in elite athletes is unusual and Carlton have had two players - marchbank and kreuzer this year alone. Both players have long history of injuries which would make them prime candidates for the experimental drug.

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5999

This should be put on the radar

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6000

That may be true, but a real court with a real judge who can hold you in contempt. I wouldn’t be leaking.

6001

I don’t think you are getting the fact that there were top-ups in the 2015 pre-season, and didn’t end up playing in the season proper because at that stage the AFL Tribunal declared them “not guilty” which lifted the provisional suspension the accused players were serving during the 2015 pre-season.

That 70s show: Top-up Bombers jumper numbers revealed


Callum Twomey

Mar 5, 2015 12:01PM

Sam Michael will wear number 77 when he runs out for Essendon in the NAB Challenge

Related

ESSENDON’S list of jumper numbers will stretch into the 70s for the NAB Challenge to cater for the club’s new recruits.

In another unusual element of an unprecedented situation, the Bombers top-up players will be wearing some unfamiliar numbers during the pre-season series.

The group of 13 fill-in players is made up of recently delisted AFL players from rival clubs as well as a handful of players listed by the club’s VFL team.

The players who had already signed on with the VFL squad were previously given jumper numbers, meaning top-ups Marcus Marigliani (No.47), James Polkinghorne (50), Aaron Heppell (51), Josh Freezer (54), Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti (55), Jordan Schroder (56) and Sam Tagliabue (58) will have lower numbers than the batch of higher-profile players.

Former Saints midfielder Clint Jones will wear No.72 having worn No.4 in his past five seasons at St Kilda.

Mitch Brown (No.73), Mitch Clisby (No.74), Jared Petrenko (No.75), James Magner (No.76) and Sam Michael (No.77) round out the new numbers.

Should any of the players in 70-plus jumpers feature in the home and away season, AFL historian Cameron Sinclair notes it would be the first time a player has worn a guernsey in the 70s.

The highest registered number ever worn is 82, by Richmond’s Ernie Taylor in one game in round 10, 1925.

In total, 10 players have worn a number 60 or higher, but the second-highest jumper number was 65, which was worn in one game by Collingwood’s Andrew Witts in round 15, 1985.

Eight players have worn the number 60 across AFL/VFL history.

ESSENDON TOP-UP PLAYER NUMBERS
47 – Marcus Marigliani
50 – James Polkinghorne
51 – Aaron Heppell
54 – Josh Freezer
55 – Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti
56 – Jordan Schroder
58 – Sam Tagliabue
72 – Clint Jones
73 – Mitch Brown
74 – Mitch Clisby
75 – Jared Petrenko
76 – James Magner
77 – Sam Michael

6002

I though you mentioned Hartley in one of your earlier posts, but he wasn’t a 2015 topup

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6003

I did make a mistake there, he got an invitation to try out and got some media as a potential top up in Feb 2015, but didn’t pass the medical.

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6004

Very good observation. Pentosan Polysulphate has a listed side effect of “fast/pounding heartbeat”. Without knowing the details of Marchbank or Kreuzer’s conditions it is difficult to draw too many conclusions. However, if they both had pre-existing heart conditions then this would preclude them from any trials or exemptions.

I would add that I have contacted the TGA about exemptions for the use of the yet registered PPSNa. They stated that they (the TGA) would not know if the patient seeking exemption was an athlete (let alone an AFL player) or not. The TGA said that they place absolute trust in the application and rationale provided by the medical practitioner???

It is worthy of note that both the Carlton Club Doctor, Philip Bloom and the Collingwood Club Doctor Ruben Branson are both involved in the promotion of PPSNa for use in athletes.

With any new drug the question of registration comes down to the simple question, do the benefits of the drug outweigh the risks. In reality no drug is without some side effects.

Your question is still relevant and should be asked. Makes for a good headline.

I’ll follow up.

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6005

You mean a CEO being someone like James Hird?

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6006

How do we know that his “nameless backer” wasn’t a clean skin being used by the other side. Placed there to do exactly what it took to allow the case to proceed and get to where it got - and then; could go no further. Sounds like the perfect patsy to me.

That is how the game works through connections and people who owe each other favours.

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6007

Fkg lol

6008

Maybe they just saw a pretty girl in the crowd?

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6009

Sorry for the delayed response @stir_fried_ewok.

Discovery can be a fairly expensive process if it’s document-intensive (as is often the case). In fact, in many first instance consumer law cases, the pre-trial discovery and preparation process is the most expensive part of the proceedings (the actual hearing for M&D conduct cases often last only a couple of days), so bailing before discovery starts certainly isn’t unheard of.

Remember that you’re (usually) up for your opponents’ costs if you lose these cases, and you can bet in this case the AFL would’ve incurred big costs from K&L Gates to search through all their inboxes and find relevant documents for discovery etc, so a loss could create a big bill for Jackson and his team.

It’s not uncommon for parties to get a second opinion before committing to the pre-trial phase for this (and other) reasons, and it might even have been an internal due diligence requirement of the backers in this case - that’s genuinely a guess though.

I absolutely agree with you that discovery could have unearthed some really critical information, but remember also that you can’t abuse the discovery process. The law says you can’t use discovered information for any “collateral purpose”, which essentially means unless (and until) the information is used in evidence in court, you can’t do anything else with it (including publish it).

I’ll stress again that I’m guessing about this, but it’s a guess based on some details which I can’t disclose (sorry) that makes me think it probably was a financial decision by the backers to pull out.

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