Sorry Saga - What Hirdy Said

[Albert_Thurgood]

Nathan Lovett-Murray wants a $1Million+ payout?!?

Wow.

Of course. They should all have got at least that.

Having your reputation besmirched for all time.

Losing the opportunity to play in finals.

Losing a Brownlow medal !!! FFS how much should that be worth?

Losing the chance to play in a Premiership team!!! FFS how much should that be worth?

Of course. They should all have got at least $1M.

The farking, cheating, manipulating, corrupt Rsoles in the AFL executive would not even blink at squandering $1M. They no doubt would be happy to pay $34 million to make this all go away.

So of course. They should all have got at least $1M.

[Fairybread]

Hmmm…so no Senate enquiry then.

[anon12285009]

What’s happening?

[bonzo]

You know..Im a little dissapointed at the moment. Attacking each other in a thread thats all about us against the world. May I remind everyone this isnt a ■■■■ Carlton or Ninthmond board. This is Essendon. We dont eat our own. Im not a lawyer, journalist, or sports scientist. Im just another punter who uses this thread to compare and balance whats written in MSM. It would be an absolute travesty if anyone was banned, or stopped posting because of petty name calling. Chill the ■■■■ out peeps and get back on board.

Shame some of you are probably pretty tasty fried & served with bar-b-que sauce

Your most welcome to eat me…
…

Puns!

[Houli_Dooley]

Nathan Lovett-Murray wants a $1Million+ payout?!?

Wow.

[Darli]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954

Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???

they wont even try to clear Hird’s name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital …why are people so cowardly & weak? …

Helen, your question is actually your answer.

This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.

As in many organisations, what’s supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.

And you know, how ?, classic dog whistle denigration.

If you’re referring to my description of the club, I know It because it was accepted by pretty much everyone that governance at the club was less than ideal. I think it was Bomber Thompson who described it as ‘a shambles’.

If you’re referring to my general comment, I know that from experience.

While I’m not suggesting what you’ve written is wrong, our governance failings were absolutely accepted by the club, my question has always been, was that failing just a really really helpful coincidence for the AFL’s plan to blame our governance OR were we hiring & paying for the worst managers & quality control auditors money could buy? If our management was sooooo inept, how does the CEO waltz into the biggest A-league club in the country? How does our Operations manager land a job at the AFL, how does the rodeo clown end up at one of the biggest accounting firms in the world? Again, I come back to my earlier post - how could any of the directors who were there at the time survive on our board after overseeing such governance failings? My other question is, by what standard to what measure were these governance failings judged? Most industries have standards & clear guild lines that can be used to effectively measure performance against the industry standard. Which AFL standards & regulations did the club fail, who audited those failings & what non-conformance was actually recorded? Does it all hinge on the Ziggy? Accepting we were a shambles was very much a part of the plan we were sold by the AFL. They simply couldn’t have considered blaming staff & trying to clear the players had our management been beyond reproach. So again we are left with no clear evidence of what state the club was actually in. Was there no records? If so then how the hell did the papers know within days that the players had taken AOD, Colustrum, Actovegin, pigs brain extract & the creamofsomyunguy??? 28 odd substances wasn’t it? How is that possible with no records? What did the AFL’s auditors seize from the laptops & hard drives - Plants v Zombies & some cat videos?

BTW - I’m not suggesting I believe the club would have been running like a well oiled machine, not at all, just that I don’t buy the official party line.
I’d be happy of there was an official audit on the club by an independent body that listed specific non-compliance of regulations. Until I see that I have nothing but the story we know was compromised to achieve the AFL’s goals. Its important to remember from the Jmidd that Andruska noted this plan was hatched before the investigation even started. Again maybe it was just fortunate for old Liz that our governance fitted in with their plan to tell everyone our governance was to blame.

Some excellent points.

I’d actually like to read the entire Ziggy report rather than the sensationalist crap that was published. I guess it goes back to the point we constantly bring up here where we were never in control of our own destiny, it was always someone else pulling the strings.

Ask Bruce, If he hasn’t got a copy, I’m sure he could get his hands on one for you to read.

lol, Ziggy report, would not matter if you read that, Im sure the AFL was all but leaning over his should and whispering into his ear exactly what to write.

Perhaps but I’d still like to see the full version. I think it would read very differently in context.

[munna1]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954

Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???

they wont even try to clear Hird’s name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital …why are people so cowardly & weak? …

Helen, your question is actually your answer.

This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.

As in many organisations, what’s supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.

And you know, how ?, classic dog whistle denigration.

If you’re referring to my description of the club, I know It because it was accepted by pretty much everyone that governance at the club was less than ideal. I think it was Bomber Thompson who described it as ‘a shambles’.

If you’re referring to my general comment, I know that from experience.

While I’m not suggesting what you’ve written is wrong, our governance failings were absolutely accepted by the club, my question has always been, was that failing just a really really helpful coincidence for the AFL’s plan to blame our governance OR were we hiring & paying for the worst managers & quality control auditors money could buy? If our management was sooooo inept, how does the CEO waltz into the biggest A-league club in the country? How does our Operations manager land a job at the AFL, how does the rodeo clown end up at one of the biggest accounting firms in the world? Again, I come back to my earlier post - how could any of the directors who were there at the time survive on our board after overseeing such governance failings? My other question is, by what standard to what measure were these governance failings judged? Most industries have standards & clear guild lines that can be used to effectively measure performance against the industry standard. Which AFL standards & regulations did the club fail, who audited those failings & what non-conformance was actually recorded? Does it all hinge on the Ziggy? Accepting we were a shambles was very much a part of the plan we were sold by the AFL. They simply couldn’t have considered blaming staff & trying to clear the players had our management been beyond reproach. So again we are left with no clear evidence of what state the club was actually in. Was there no records? If so then how the hell did the papers know within days that the players had taken AOD, Colustrum, Actovegin, pigs brain extract & the creamofsomyunguy??? 28 odd substances wasn’t it? How is that possible with no records? What did the AFL’s auditors seize from the laptops & hard drives - Plants v Zombies & some cat videos?

BTW - I’m not suggesting I believe the club would have been running like a well oiled machine, not at all, just that I don’t buy the official party line.
I’d be happy of there was an official audit on the club by an independent body that listed specific non-compliance of regulations. Until I see that I have nothing but the story we know was compromised to achieve the AFL’s goals. Its important to remember from the Jmidd that Andruska noted this plan was hatched before the investigation even started. Again maybe it was just fortunate for old Liz that our governance fitted in with their plan to tell everyone our governance was to blame.

Some excellent points.

I’d actually like to read the entire Ziggy report rather than the sensationalist crap that was published. I guess it goes back to the point we constantly bring up here where we were never in control of our own destiny, it was always someone else pulling the strings.

Ask Bruce, If he hasn’t got a copy, I’m sure he could get his hands on one for you to read.

lol, Ziggy report, would not matter if you read that, Im sure the AFL was all but leaning over his should and whispering into his ear exactly what to write.

[mdso]

I’d like to summarise the situation:

1. Caroline Wilson wrote a vile column which I understand upset the Hird family

2. No one, apart from Bruce responded to Wilson

3. Bruce took her apart sentence by sentence and exposed her lies and ignorance.

4. Deckham was offended by the tone of Bruce’s dissection and was particularly upset at the colonoscopy metaphor.

5. Deckham criticised Bruce’s tone

6. Deckham didn’t say a single word in praise of Bruce for being the only one to attack Wilson

7. I thought Deckham was being unfair and said so.

8. Deckham and Albert want to ban me from blitz. There is no need, I’ll opt out.

9. It’s a shame because I suspect that I am the only here with a good working knowledge of how journalists operate.

Please reconsider.

[Darli]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954

Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???

they wont even try to clear Hird’s name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital …why are people so cowardly & weak? …

Helen, your question is actually your answer.

This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.

As in many organisations, what’s supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.

and none of that was Hird’s fault …saying the place was shambolic is a nice fiction for some believe it if you like. The media & the cowards who wouldn’t stand up to the AFL certainly do … we weren’t a multi million dollar club because they were shambolic …& yes the fault lies with the ultimate bosses the afl who didn’t bother to do anything resembling governance at all yet decided to say it was only Essendon …I pretty much say that if Essendon were shambolic other clubs not so well run were really in the ■■■■!

I’m not saying it was anyone’s fault. Simply that’s how it was portrayed, most noticeably by Bomber.

[bloodychoir]

Personal attacks, 20+ nested quotes. THIS THREAD HAS IT ALL.

But does it have puns?

[BakerWasAStar]

The biggest surprise of this article is that Caroline Wilson can actually write without vile.

Why Carlisle hasn’t lodged a compensation is a mystery…bigger mystery is why Lovett-Murray - or perhaps, it’s Peter Jess - think compensation should be $5M-$9M (my interpretation of what a large, 7 figure sum might be) as Caroline “understands” it…very typical of her writing, always giving herself an out.

Hal Hunter has settled. Besides Carlisle & NLM, that leaves (I think) only 2 players.

Jake Carlisle yet to lodge compensation claim with Essendon Bombers

Essendon remain mystified as to why they cannot achieve closure with controversial former Bomber Jake Carlisle, who has not yet lodged a compensation claim against the club.

Having settled 30 of the grievance claims made against the club by the 34 players suspended last season by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, Bombers CEO Xavier Campbell and his team have not yet managed to resolve their legal issues with three other former Essendon players including Nathan Lovett-Murray.

But they are understood to have become increasingly frustrated with Carlisle’s advisers as they seek to move forward in 2017 and out of the shadow of the drug scandal that has haunted the club for four years.

Carlisle cut a disenchanted and embittered figure during his last season at the Bombers although in recent months his public comments have indicated he was keen to move on from the drugs saga.

Carlisle’s manager Anthony McConville was not available for comment regarding the state of Carlisle’s claim. The 25-year-old is being represented by former AFL Coaches Association lawyer Chris Pollard.

While it was revealed almost 12 months ago that Carlisle’s legal team had linked his 2015 illicit drug use with the trauma of his final three years at Essendon no claim has yet been put to the club.

This means the player has to date gone without his playing wages for all of last season. Carlisle’s four-year deal with St Kilda included a trigger for a fifth season and was worth more than $500,000 annually. St Kilda stopped paying Carlisle last January and did not start paying him again until the end of October. Over that period he worked part-time for three to four days a week for a commercial building firm with connections to the Saints, Buxton Constructions. Carlisle is still working there one day a week.

Sensationally caught on social media snorting a white substance just hours after being signed by the Saints, Carlisle was suspended for two weeks by his new club and made to forfeit $50,000 in marketing money. The suspension was served concurrently with his season-long ban and Carlisle returned to the AFL last week via St Kilda’s first JLT pre-season game.

Lovett-Murray, 34, has been seeking advice from the AFL Players’ Association and is understood to have lodged a large seven-figure claim against the Bombers through his manager Peter Jess.

The Carlisle issue has emerged as another aggrieved former player on Wednesday agreed to a settlement with Essendon.

Hal Hunter, the player who demanded via legal channels to see medical files documenting the drugs he was given by Essendon, is understood to have now cut all official and legal ties with the club in a settlement approved in court early on Wednesday. In March last year Hunter was ordered by the courts to pay Essendon’s legal fees for seeking those files. That court order has since been reversed.

Hunter was not one of the 34 banned players but in an interview last year with Fairfax Media he said his diagnosed anxiety and depression stemmed from concerns about what drugs he had been given during 2013 at Essendon.

Banned last year from his player-coaching role at Rumbalara in Shepparton, Lovett-Murray like most of his former teammates has also taken on the club for breaches of duty of care and reputational damage.

Essendon has reached various settlements with all of the 12 players remaining at the club, including Jobe Watson who lost the 2013 Brownlow Medal as a result of his drug ban and new captain Dyson Heppell, a former Pollard client.

All players represented by Slater and Gordon have also settled with the club including Stewart Crameri who could have been a Bulldogs premiership player last year.

Paddy Ryder has also settled his claim with his former club.

[helen]

You know..Im a little dissapointed at the moment. Attacking each other in a thread thats all about us against the world. May I remind everyone this isnt a ■■■■ Carlton or Ninthmond board. This is Essendon. We dont eat our own. Im not a lawyer, journalist, or sports scientist. Im just another punter who uses this thread to compare and balance whats written in MSM. It would be an absolute travesty if anyone was banned, or stopped posting because of petty name calling. Chill the ■■■■ out peeps and get back on board.

Shame some of you are probably pretty tasty fried & served with bar-b-que sauce

[BLOODSTAINED_DEVILS]

You know..Im a little dissapointed at the moment. Attacking each other in a thread thats all about us against the world. May I remind everyone this isnt a ■■■■ Carlton or Ninthmond board. This is Essendon. We dont eat our own. Im not a lawyer, journalist, or sports scientist. Im just another punter who uses this thread to compare and balance whats written in MSM. It would be an absolute travesty if anyone was banned, or stopped posting because of petty name calling. Chill the ■■■■ out peeps and get back on board.

Shame some of you are probably pretty tasty fried & served with bar-b-que sauce

…and a nice Chianti … >:)

[mdso]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954

Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???

they wont even try to clear Hird’s name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital …why are people so cowardly & weak? …

Helen, your question is actually your answer.

This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.

As in many organisations, what’s supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.

And you know, how ?, classic dog whistle denigration.

If you’re referring to my description of the club, I know It because it was accepted by pretty much everyone that governance at the club was less than ideal. I think it was Bomber Thompson who described it as ‘a shambles’.

If you’re referring to my general comment, I know that from experience.

While I’m not suggesting what you’ve written is wrong, our governance failings were absolutely accepted by the club, my question has always been, was that failing just a really really helpful coincidence for the AFL’s plan to blame our governance OR were we hiring & paying for the worst managers & quality control auditors money could buy? If our management was sooooo inept, how does the CEO waltz into the biggest A-league club in the country? How does our Operations manager land a job at the AFL, how does the rodeo clown end up at one of the biggest accounting firms in the world? Again, I come back to my earlier post - how could any of the directors who were there at the time survive on our board after overseeing such governance failings? My other question is, by what standard to what measure were these governance failings judged? Most industries have standards & clear guild lines that can be used to effectively measure performance against the industry standard. Which AFL standards & regulations did the club fail, who audited those failings & what non-conformance was actually recorded? Does it all hinge on the Ziggy? Accepting we were a shambles was very much a part of the plan we were sold by the AFL. They simply couldn’t have considered blaming staff & trying to clear the players had our management been beyond reproach. So again we are left with no clear evidence of what state the club was actually in. Was there no records? If so then how the hell did the papers know within days that the players had taken AOD, Colustrum, Actovegin, pigs brain extract & the creamofsomyunguy??? 28 odd substances wasn’t it? How is that possible with no records? What did the AFL’s auditors seize from the laptops & hard drives - Plants v Zombies & some cat videos?

BTW - I’m not suggesting I believe the club would have been running like a well oiled machine, not at all, just that I don’t buy the official party line.
I’d be happy of there was an official audit on the club by an independent body that listed specific non-compliance of regulations. Until I see that I have nothing but the story we know was compromised to achieve the AFL’s goals. Its important to remember from the Jmidd that Andruska noted this plan was hatched before the investigation even started. Again maybe it was just fortunate for old Liz that our governance fitted in with their plan to tell everyone our governance was to blame.

Some excellent points.

I’d actually like to read the entire Ziggy report rather than the sensationalist crap that was published. I guess it goes back to the point we constantly bring up here where we were never in control of our own destiny, it was always someone else pulling the strings.

Ask Bruce, If he hasn’t got a copy, I’m sure he could get his hands on one for you to read.

[helen]

If our club was shambolic then other clubs not so well run must have really been in the poo …just like the “rouge element” & the “we dont know what the players had” & the “off site drug den” (which turned out to be a clinic across the road from the club) bull …all this was just AFL spin doctoring, that people seem to accept!! …How did we become a multi million dollar club? By shear damned good luck it would seem …believe it or not this whole managed stage show of a saga has people believing absolute nonsense…from the Ziggy report to the Interim report we have seen nothing but a con that has cost people dearly …

[Darli]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954

Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???

they wont even try to clear Hird’s name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital …why are people so cowardly & weak? …

Helen, your question is actually your answer.

This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.

As in many organisations, what’s supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.

And you know, how ?, classic dog whistle denigration.

If you’re referring to my description of the club, I know It because it was accepted by pretty much everyone that governance at the club was less than ideal. I think it was Bomber Thompson who described it as ‘a shambles’.

If you’re referring to my general comment, I know that from experience.

While I’m not suggesting what you’ve written is wrong, our governance failings were absolutely accepted by the club, my question has always been, was that failing just a really really helpful coincidence for the AFL’s plan to blame our governance OR were we hiring & paying for the worst managers & quality control auditors money could buy? If our management was sooooo inept, how does the CEO waltz into the biggest A-league club in the country? How does our Operations manager land a job at the AFL, how does the rodeo clown end up at one of the biggest accounting firms in the world? Again, I come back to my earlier post - how could any of the directors who were there at the time survive on our board after overseeing such governance failings? My other question is, by what standard to what measure were these governance failings judged? Most industries have standards & clear guild lines that can be used to effectively measure performance against the industry standard. Which AFL standards & regulations did the club fail, who audited those failings & what non-conformance was actually recorded? Does it all hinge on the Ziggy? Accepting we were a shambles was very much a part of the plan we were sold by the AFL. They simply couldn’t have considered blaming staff & trying to clear the players had our management been beyond reproach. So again we are left with no clear evidence of what state the club was actually in. Was there no records? If so then how the hell did the papers know within days that the players had taken AOD, Colustrum, Actovegin, pigs brain extract & the creamofsomyunguy??? 28 odd substances wasn’t it? How is that possible with no records? What did the AFL’s auditors seize from the laptops & hard drives - Plants v Zombies & some cat videos?

BTW - I’m not suggesting I believe the club would have been running like a well oiled machine, not at all, just that I don’t buy the official party line.
I’d be happy of there was an official audit on the club by an independent body that listed specific non-compliance of regulations. Until I see that I have nothing but the story we know was compromised to achieve the AFL’s goals. Its important to remember from the Jmidd that Andruska noted this plan was hatched before the investigation even started. Again maybe it was just fortunate for old Liz that our governance fitted in with their plan to tell everyone our governance was to blame.

Some excellent points.

I’d actually like to read the entire Ziggy report rather than the sensationalist crap that was published. I guess it goes back to the point we constantly bring up here where we were never in control of our own destiny, it was always someone else pulling the strings.

[Albert_Thurgood]

You have to go to a LOT of trouble to count how many nested posts there are in a quote. Why would you?

[Mendozaaaa]

Personal attacks, 20+ nested quotes. THIS THREAD HAS IT ALL.

[Albert_Thurgood]

I’d like to summarise the situation:

1. Caroline Wilson wrote a vile column which I understand upset the Hird family

2. No one, apart from Bruce responded to Wilson

3. Bruce took her apart sentence by sentence and exposed her lies and ignorance.

4. Deckham was offended by the tone of Bruce’s dissection and was particularly upset at the colonoscopy metaphor.

5. Deckham criticised Bruce’s tone

6. Deckham didn’t say a single word in praise of Bruce for being the only one to attack Wilson

7. I thought Deckham was being unfair and said so.

8. Deckham and Albert want to ban me from blitz. There is no need, I’ll opt out.

9. It’s a shame because I suspect that I am the only here with a good working knowledge of how journalists operate.

I did not say anything about banning you. I said I read and liked most of your posts but that last one you made was inappropriate and should be deleted.

[bonzo]

You know…Im a little dissapointed at the moment.
Attacking each other in a thread thats all about us against the world.
May I remind everyone this isnt a ■■■■ Carlton or Ninthmond board. This is Essendon. We dont eat our own.
Im not a lawyer, journalist, or sports scientist. Im just another punter who uses this thread to compare and balance whats written in MSM.
It would be an absolute travesty if anyone was banned, or stopped posting because of petty name calling.
Chill the ■■■■ out peeps and get back on board.