Sorry Saga - What Hirdy Said

1. It is incomprehensible that you(SWMNBN)would be so stupid to raise the issue of leaks. It is my understanding that because you received more leaks than the urinals at the G on a hot Boxing Day Test between Australia and England that you had to revert to wearing gum boots.

Haha classic Bruce

Funny and incisive and all, but neither of the intended recipients would have read past the first insult if they started in at all. So what’s the point? His more temperate letters are the model he ought to stick to. With respect.

I am sure that Bruce knows that Ms Wilson, Patrick Smith and Gillon McLachlan wouldn’t read a single word. He is obviously not writing for them. They won’t change their attitudes. He is writing to inform us of their mistakes. He is writing to amuse us. We love to see them receive some of their own medicine. He is writing to amuse the other journalists who despise Wilson and Smith etc. I’ve been told Bruce gets good feedback from other journalists every time he attacks Wilson and Smith. One of his prized emails was sent by the late Rebecca Wilson over the Eddie McGuire drowning episode. Rebecca wasn’t sympathetic towards Caroline. As Bruce has provided 99% of our knowledge I don’t understand why people here attack him. Surely he knows what he is doing. He has a reason for each action he takes

Gotcha. I’ve always assumed there was an element of tilting at windmills (in lieu of the dragons paying any attention) to it. Glad to know there’s a strategy involved. Btw, wasn’t attacking him, just seemed a bit crass and self defeating this time around.

I have observed that the journos will wade through anything for the gems. At the moment the political journos are riveted with watching Senate Estimates Online no matter how much time it takes and the dross they have to sift through to get their stories. I expect the Health Ageing and Sport Estimates hearing will be closely watched by journos, mostly for Health and Ageing , but sport might get a run in light of Hunt’s offer to defuse the Coates/Wylie stoush. Who knows there might also be some interest in reporting on ASADA.

Mark Evans appointed GCS CEO, the same Mark Evans who , as AFL operations Manager, checked and cleared GCS of doping wrongdoing…

How is James doing?

He & his family will talk about that when & if they feel like the time is right.

Of course, just checking in case there were any updates.

i can't speak for the J34 or anyone else for that matter, but the outcome I want is an authoritative public acknowledgment that the players, Hird, Bomber and Corcoran were stitched up by corruption within ASADA ( from Andruska through MCD); corruption in its relations with the corrupt AFL and corruption in its relations with another corrupt body in WADA; leading to a corrupted CAS outcome. Take no prisoners! To me it is not about overturning past decisions , but I want the inquiry to lead to reform and in particular for the AFL to be exposed for what it did and what it will continue to do with its corporate cowboy mates absent reform. And I want the Australian Givernment to rethink its policies, including playing an active role in reform of WADA.

I honestly don’t think ASADA under Andruska were corrupt, I think they were completely and utterly inept. The AFL on the other hand…

Andruska was also completely and utterly inept in the witness box. Still trying to find her true calling.

Rubbish!

J-Mudd thought she was the bestest witness that ever witnessed in the history of witnessing. He even went out of his way to let us all know that.

She had close associations with NSW ALP iirc

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954
Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as well

Allan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes ago

THE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.

Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.

Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.

Those of us who have read Chip Le Grand’s excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warner’s reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.

Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.

But as the saying goes better late than never.

All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.

She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.

The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevitt’s tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: “we know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012”.

Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didn’t he give an exact figure? It’s either hundreds or it’s thousands.

Either he knew it’s hundreds or he knew it’s thousands. It can’t be both.

Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.

Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.

But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.

The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.

That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.

The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.

ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.

That’s right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.

Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevitt’s watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADA’s lawyers and the access to ASADA’s failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.

He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.

So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.

Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you can’t be tried for the same crime twice.

But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.

Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.

The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.

In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?

Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.

Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.

So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.

All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahi’s attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.

My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon players’ reputations, do your research.

Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.

Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevitt’s line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.

Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didn’t know what they were injected with.

She has a peanut for a brain.

I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.

the “we don’t know what we took” line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms Lukin…the players know what they had it was what they agreed to have …do they know it beyond any doubt …no …unless they had every substance checked before it was injected into them…they trusted they were given what they were told they were given…and tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we don’t know what substances they were is crap…they were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found …no TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEO’s put such stock in the “fact” that Essendon were drug cheats…well they had to be didn’t they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements program…Dank was at the club do the math…as far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five …it had to because they couldn’t prosecute if the answer was 4 …If I were the club I’d be coming clean about the pressure to say they didn’t know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.

She delivers a harder hit on Gill for turning Hird!s illness into a joke, accompanied by guffaws from his sycophant interviewers.

What was the ‘joke’?

1. It is incomprehensible that you(SWMNBN)would be so stupid to raise the issue of leaks. It is my understanding that because you received more leaks than the urinals at the G on a hot Boxing Day Test between Australia and England that you had to revert to wearing gum boots.

Haha classic Bruce

Funny and incisive and all, but neither of the intended recipients would have read past the first insult if they started in at all. So what’s the point? His more temperate letters are the model he ought to stick to. With respect.

Apparently that’s not the case at all. They have to read them because Bruce knows too much to be dismissed. Because the distribution list is pretty well targeted, you can’t afford to not know what is being said about the quality of your work to your colleagues, your employer(s) and the other high profile people on the distribution list. The word is that a lot of journos take great delight in reading Bruce’s stuff, especially articles that take the mickey out of people like Caro and Patrick Smith and knowing that makes it hard to ignore as well. You need to know what all the giggling is about:) It is not just thieves among whom there is little honour!

Is there a place where Bruce’s emails can be accessed or are you on his mailing list LB?

Can I ask some of you people on here in the Justice for 34 group a sincere query on the Inquiry. I have stated I don't have any objection to it, I have signed the petition and like everyone I want justice on wrongs that have been committed. People who know me well know I get just as angry as anyone on this injustice so please take that into consideration.

I continue to think about the implications of an inquiry and what the positive outcomes could be.

Am I right in thinking the main outcome is likely how the AFL and ASADA proceed in future with both cases?

There is mention of players getting justice but this is where I disagree…though I would love it. As CAS finding has been challenged and failed I cannot see any possible way the players have any relief with an inquiry. I don’t say that to be negative just a matter of fact as players were tried on TB4 and by a WADA/Independant body which falls outside what an inquiry will look at…to my humble belief anyway.

So is the inquiry really on corruption in a sense between AFL and ASADA? protecting future athletes rights from joint investigations, confidentiality etc?

There are many pages written on inquiry but just want to get some clarity myself. Again please take this as an open conversation and looking forward to heearing thoughts

Thing is the CAS findings were never challenged, they cant be. They challenged, the right of CAS to hear the case as denovo. When the infraction occurred the case had already been heard, or was mostly completed. The rule change allowing a denovo case did not exist …Swiss court decided Australia Law did not apply to CAS & was irrelevant.
There was never any challenge to the way CAS handled the case or any question about the way they found guilt on the same evidence apparently that decided they were innocent. CAS do not have to now explain their rulings or methods nor do they now have to challenge on points of law on verdicts they don’t like!!! That is the justice that people want to see reversed for the players & any future athletes who because of the way things now stand can expect the same sort of treatment if WADA decides they are guilty with no evidence, or whistleblower or paper trail or money trail linking anything …

Meanwhile, in the UK Parliamentary inquiry which started off looking at blood doping, UKAD has advised that it has no objections to the Committee looking at the SKY cycling issue, notwithstanding UKAD’s separate inquiry.
Australian Senate Committees have a track record in covering the waterfront beyond the initial narrow scope of their inquiries,
Goes to show that a Senate Committee in this case could extend its mandate beyond ASADA ethics to all relevant matters.

1 Like
I have enjoyed reading the very well considered responses to CJohns query. It just reaffirms to me the knowledge and understanding that Blitzers have of the saga and an ability to make informed and well considered comment. Thanks to you all.

The way I see it is, if we can push the politicians hard enough, a senate enquiry will be all about legislative failure. The ASADA Act is not fit for purpose nowadays and the notion of an anti-doping authority has been trampled by outside influences and inept management. The enquiry will identify the need for change/revamp/rebuild of anti-doping in Australia.

The enquiry will no doubt uncover the unpreparedness of ASADA for such a case as the Essendon Supplements Saga. They were completely out of their depth and once they started on that slippery slope they were doomed. McDevitt used the bull in a china shop approach, one that lead to an Australian Government Authority stepping outside Australian Law to achieve a desired outcome. The means that lead that outcome are what a senate enquiry will scrutinise.

Any fair minded Australian, whether they be a politician or John Citizen, would recognise that as a sovereign nation we have a constitution and set of Laws that have stood us well for 116 years. It is an insult to everyone in Australia that a government employee sees the need to snub his nose at this 116 years of Australian history in favour of some star chamber residing in a Swiss castle.

It would be my hope that the politicians recognise that this gross injustice, driven by egos, vindictiveness, and doubtful or even false evidence is an insult to them and the people they represent. They have the power in their hands. Instead of worrying about their re-election, their superannuation, their expense accounts and their image how about you stand up and do the right thing. You want to be seen as leaders on the world stage well here is your chance. Send a message.

Oh, and by the way it would seem obvious to Blitzers that once ASADA is exposed then the AFL are implicated, and the now wobbly deck of cards will come down, but don’t get me started on them.

In saying all that we haven’t achieved a primary milestone in the plan and that is the senate enquiry. Keep pushing those pollies.

The inquiry needs to extend to what deals ASADA has done with the AFL over the years and how that deal making thus influenced the decision to jointly investigate Essendon. AFL’s Harcourt has said they had retired players etc., yet no player ever received a SCN. Why?

In his emotive interviews Hal Hunter said he received injections, but not charged. He just fitted the AFL/ASADA health scare narrative.

And as Hal, said, “IT IS THE NOT KNOWING AND ALL THE FALSE INFORMATION OUT THERE, THAT DOES MY HEAD IN.”

I hope the EFC are keeping in touch with and, supporting all the players, who were part of the supplements program, including those not now at the club. Not becoming like the AFL, who do a lot of talking about duty of care and follow up with no action, no follow through. As long as it is a good look and sounds good.

I know a friend of the family. Hal doesn’t play footy at all any more, apparently as a consequence of all this, and still feels as noted in the above. Mind you, said friend only seemed to only know about the stuff from the Four Corners program.

Ticket podcast is now up, Essendon dealt with as the first item. Holmes refers to the AFL having to put on their fireman suits after the tape release.
She also takes aim at Gil for his SEN interview in regard to his assertion that he had not listened to the tape, but goes on to talk about it for 10 mins.
She delivers a harder hit on Gill for turning Hird!s illness into a joke, accompanied by guffaws from his sycophant interviewers.

1 Like
1. It is incomprehensible that you(SWMNBN)would be so stupid to raise the issue of leaks. It is my understanding that because you received more leaks than the urinals at the G on a hot Boxing Day Test between Australia and England that you had to revert to wearing gum boots.

Haha classic Bruce

Funny and incisive and all, but neither of the intended recipients would have read past the first insult if they started in at all. So what’s the point? His more temperate letters are the model he ought to stick to. With respect.

Apparently that’s not the case at all. They have to read them because Bruce knows too much to be dismissed. Because the distribution list is pretty well targeted, you can’t afford to not know what is being said about the quality of your work to your colleagues, your employer(s) and the other high profile people on the distribution list. The word is that a lot of journos take great delight in reading Bruce’s stuff, especially articles that take the mickey out of people like Caro and Patrick Smith and knowing that makes it hard to ignore as well. You need to know what all the giggling is about:) It is not just thieves among whom there is little honour!

1. It is incomprehensible that you(SWMNBN)would be so stupid to raise the issue of leaks. It is my understanding that because you received more leaks than the urinals at the G on a hot Boxing Day Test between Australia and England that you had to revert to wearing gum boots.

Haha classic Bruce

Funny and incisive and all, but neither of the intended recipients would have read past the first insult if they started in at all. So what’s the point? His more temperate letters are the model he ought to stick to. With respect.

I am sure that Bruce knows that Ms Wilson, Patrick Smith and Gillon McLachlan wouldn’t read a single word. He is obviously not writing for them. They won’t change their attitudes. He is writing to inform us of their mistakes. He is writing to amuse us. We love to see them receive some of their own medicine. He is writing to amuse the other journalists who despise Wilson and Smith etc. I’ve been told Bruce gets good feedback from other journalists every time he attacks Wilson and Smith. One of his prized emails was sent by the late Rebecca Wilson over the Eddie McGuire drowning episode. Rebecca wasn’t sympathetic towards Caroline. As Bruce has provided 99% of our knowledge I don’t understand why people here attack him. Surely he knows what he is doing. He has a reason for each action he takes

I have enjoyed reading the very well considered responses to CJohns query. It just reaffirms to me the knowledge and understanding that Blitzers have of the saga and an ability to make informed and well considered comment. Thanks to you all.

The way I see it is, if we can push the politicians hard enough, a senate enquiry will be all about legislative failure. The ASADA Act is not fit for purpose nowadays and the notion of an anti-doping authority has been trampled by outside influences and inept management. The enquiry will identify the need for change/revamp/rebuild of anti-doping in Australia.

The enquiry will no doubt uncover the unpreparedness of ASADA for such a case as the Essendon Supplements Saga. They were completely out of their depth and once they started on that slippery slope they were doomed. McDevitt used the bull in a china shop approach, one that lead to an Australian Government Authority stepping outside Australian Law to achieve a desired outcome. The means that lead that outcome are what a senate enquiry will scrutinise.

Any fair minded Australian, whether they be a politician or John Citizen, would recognise that as a sovereign nation we have a constitution and set of Laws that have stood us well for 116 years. It is an insult to everyone in Australia that a government employee sees the need to snub his nose at this 116 years of Australian history in favour of some star chamber residing in a Swiss castle.

It would be my hope that the politicians recognise that this gross injustice, driven by egos, vindictiveness, and doubtful or even false evidence is an insult to them and the people they represent. They have the power in their hands. Instead of worrying about their re-election, their superannuation, their expense accounts and their image how about you stand up and do the right thing. You want to be seen as leaders on the world stage well here is your chance. Send a message.

Oh, and by the way it would seem obvious to Blitzers that once ASADA is exposed then the AFL are implicated, and the now wobbly deck of cards will come down, but don’t get me started on them.

In saying all that we haven’t achieved a primary milestone in the plan and that is the senate enquiry. Keep pushing those pollies.

The inquiry needs to extend to what deals ASADA has done with the AFL over the years and how that deal making thus influenced the decision to jointly investigate Essendon. AFL’s Harcourt has said they had retired players etc., yet no player ever received a SCN. Why?

In his emotive interviews Hal Hunter said he received injections, but not charged. He just fitted the AFL/ASADA health scare narrative.

And as Hal, said, “IT IS THE NOT KNOWING AND ALL THE FALSE INFORMATION OUT THERE, THAT DOES MY HEAD IN.”

I hope the EFC are keeping in touch with and, supporting all the players, who were part of the supplements program, including those not now at the club. Not becoming like the AFL, who do a lot of talking about duty of care and follow up with no action, no follow through. As long as it is a good look and sounds good.

1. It is incomprehensible that you(SWMNBN)would be so stupid to raise the issue of leaks. It is my understanding that because you received more leaks than the urinals at the G on a hot Boxing Day Test between Australia and England that you had to revert to wearing gum boots.

Haha classic Bruce

Funny and incisive and all, but neither of the intended recipients would have read past the first insult if they started in at all. So what’s the point? His more temperate letters are the model he ought to stick to. With respect.

I have enjoyed reading the very well considered responses to CJohns query. It just reaffirms to me the knowledge and understanding that Blitzers have of the saga and an ability to make informed and well considered comment. Thanks to you all.

The way I see it is, if we can push the politicians hard enough, a senate enquiry will be all about legislative failure. The ASADA Act is not fit for purpose nowadays and the notion of an anti-doping authority has been trampled by outside influences and inept management. The enquiry will identify the need for change/revamp/rebuild of anti-doping in Australia.

The enquiry will no doubt uncover the unpreparedness of ASADA for such a case as the Essendon Supplements Saga. They were completely out of their depth and once they started on that slippery slope they were doomed. McDevitt used the bull in a china shop approach, one that lead to an Australian Government Authority stepping outside Australian Law to achieve a desired outcome. The means that lead that outcome are what a senate enquiry will scrutinise.

Any fair minded Australian, whether they be a politician or John Citizen, would recognise that as a sovereign nation we have a constitution and set of Laws that have stood us well for 116 years. It is an insult to everyone in Australia that a government employee sees the need to snub his nose at this 116 years of Australian history in favour of some star chamber residing in a Swiss castle.

It would be my hope that the politicians recognise that this gross injustice, driven by egos, vindictiveness, and doubtful or even false evidence is an insult to them and the people they represent. They have the power in their hands. Instead of worrying about their re-election, their superannuation, their expense accounts and their image how about you stand up and do the right thing. You want to be seen as leaders on the world stage well here is your chance. Send a message.

Oh, and by the way it would seem obvious to Blitzers that once ASADA is exposed then the AFL are implicated, and the now wobbly deck of cards will come down, but don’t get me started on them.

In saying all that we haven’t achieved a primary milestone in the plan and that is the senate enquiry. Keep pushing those pollies.

The inquiry needs to extend to what deals ASADA has done with the AFL over the years and how that deal making thus influenced the decision to jointly investigate Essendon. AFL’s Harcourt has said they had retired players etc., yet no player ever received a SCN. Why?

In his emotive interviews Hal Hunter said he received injections, but not charged. He just fitted the AFL/ASADA health scare narrative.

1 Like
How is James doing?

He & his family will talk about that when & if they feel like the time is right.

How is James doing?

I have enjoyed reading the very well considered responses to CJohns query. It just reaffirms to me the knowledge and understanding that Blitzers have of the saga and an ability to make informed and well considered comment. Thanks to you all.

The way I see it is, if we can push the politicians hard enough, a senate enquiry will be all about legislative failure. The ASADA Act is not fit for purpose nowadays and the notion of an anti-doping authority has been trampled by outside influences and inept management. The enquiry will identify the need for change/revamp/rebuild of anti-doping in Australia.

The enquiry will no doubt uncover the unpreparedness of ASADA for such a case as the Essendon Supplements Saga. They were completely out of their depth and once they started on that slippery slope they were doomed. McDevitt used the bull in a china shop approach, one that lead to an Australian Government Authority stepping outside Australian Law to achieve a desired outcome. The means that lead that outcome are what a senate enquiry will scrutinise.

Any fair minded Australian, whether they be a politician or John Citizen, would recognise that as a sovereign nation we have a constitution and set of Laws that have stood us well for 116 years. It is an insult to everyone in Australia that a government employee sees the need to snub his nose at this 116 years of Australian history in favour of some star chamber residing in a Swiss castle.

It would be my hope that the politicians recognise that this gross injustice, driven by egos, vindictiveness, and doubtful or even false evidence is an insult to them and the people they represent. They have the power in their hands. Instead of worrying about their re-election, their superannuation, their expense accounts and their image how about you stand up and do the right thing. You want to be seen as leaders on the world stage well here is your chance. Send a message.

Oh, and by the way it would seem obvious to Blitzers that once ASADA is exposed then the AFL are implicated, and the now wobbly deck of cards will come down, but don’t get me started on them.

In saying all that we haven’t achieved a primary milestone in the plan and that is the senate enquiry. Keep pushing those pollies.

The inquiry needs to extend to what deals ASADA has done with the AFL over the years and how that deal making thus influenced the decision to jointly investigate Essendon. AFL’s Harcourt has said they had retired players etc., yet no player ever received a SCN. Why?