Remember the time we could discuss a topic without it turning into another farking Stanton debate FFSRemember the time that guy said he thought Ricky Dyson was twice the player Stanton is?
Remember the time we could discuss a topic without it turning into another farking Stanton debate FFSRemember the time that guy said he thought Ricky Dyson was twice the player Stanton is?
Probably the hurley fwd or back thread
In what exact way is Myers not defensive minded?Myers, Zaka and Stanton are 2 too many one way running midfielders so one has to go.
What's bad is Myers and Stanton are REALLY slow off the mark and do not chase their opponents.
What's really really bad is Zaka is really fast off the mark yet you never see him chase and drag down a player with his speed.
When you add a not so fast Jobe, Goddard and Hocking (then Cooney) tou have a slow as fark midfield that if they do not get the ball, their midfield opponents will run forward and ruin our backline.
It's been this way for years, yet the coaches keep giving the same one way running midfielders games, makes no sense.
Obviously not in the footy way, he's as gritty as anyone bar Heath or howlett.
Is his driving reckless? Leave his guard down, sparring? Charge openly into relationships, leaving himself vulnerable to be hurt, a fool, a mad fool for love?
Shane Harvey was the best Essendon player ever. He made Jay Nash look shocking.
Close the damn thread.
You are forgetting the incomparable Paul Thomas!
In what exact way is Myers not defensive minded?Myers, Zaka and Stanton are 2 too many one way running midfielders so one has to go.
What's bad is Myers and Stanton are REALLY slow off the mark and do not chase their opponents.
What's really really bad is Zaka is really fast off the mark yet you never see him chase and drag down a player with his speed.
When you add a not so fast Jobe, Goddard and Hocking (then Cooney) tou have a slow as fark midfield that if they do not get the ball, their midfield opponents will run forward and ruin our backline.
It's been this way for years, yet the coaches keep giving the same one way running midfielders games, makes no sense.
Obviously not in the footy way, he's as gritty as anyone bar Heath or howlett.
Is his driving reckless? Leave his guard down, sparring? Charge openly into relationships, leaving himself vulnerable to be hurt, a fool, a mad fool for love?
Didn't he win the team defensive award this season?...
In what exact way is Myers not defensive minded?Myers, Zaka and Stanton are 2 too many one way running midfielders so one has to go.
What's bad is Myers and Stanton are REALLY slow off the mark and do not chase their opponents.
What's really really bad is Zaka is really fast off the mark yet you never see him chase and drag down a player with his speed.
When you add a not so fast Jobe, Goddard and Hocking (then Cooney) tou have a slow as fark midfield that if they do not get the ball, their midfield opponents will run forward and ruin our backline.
It's been this way for years, yet the coaches keep giving the same one way running midfielders games, makes no sense.
Obviously not in the footy way, he's as gritty as anyone bar Heath or howlett.
Is his driving reckless? Leave his guard down, sparring? Charge openly into relationships, leaving himself vulnerable to be hurt, a fool, a mad fool for love?
He is certainly right in one thing though. Myers is extremely slow off the mark. It really shows out when there is either a turnover or the ball goes a different direction to anticipated. The time it takes him to decelerate, stop, then build up momentum again in his first 5-10 steps, is really slow.
I like him as a player and a leader. His work around the stoppages is really underrated by those external to the club. But yeah, he is slow off the mark.
Yes Black Kavanagh, he did.
How the hell does bucketsoflove explain that?
That much is true, it's more his brakes/turning circle than his 0-100km/h time.He is certainly right in one thing though. Myers is extremely slow off the mark. It really shows out when there is either a turnover or the ball goes a different direction to anticipated. The time it takes him to decelerate, stop, then build up momentum again in his first 5-10 steps, is really slow.
In what exact way is Myers not defensive minded?Myers, Zaka and Stanton are 2 too many one way running midfielders so one has to go.
What's bad is Myers and Stanton are REALLY slow off the mark and do not chase their opponents.
What's really really bad is Zaka is really fast off the mark yet you never see him chase and drag down a player with his speed.
When you add a not so fast Jobe, Goddard and Hocking (then Cooney) tou have a slow as fark midfield that if they do not get the ball, their midfield opponents will run forward and ruin our backline.
It's been this way for years, yet the coaches keep giving the same one way running midfielders games, makes no sense.
Obviously not in the footy way, he's as gritty as anyone bar Heath or howlett.
Is his driving reckless? Leave his guard down, sparring? Charge openly into relationships, leaving himself vulnerable to be hurt, a fool, a mad fool for love?
I like him as a player and a leader. His work around the stoppages is really underrated by those external to the club. But yeah, he is slow off the mark.
Its our forward line. Once it clicks, we will be a very good side
If joe and jake kick 80 between them itll be a start. Past that its a struggle to see who can kick 30+ and their lies the problem. We need a genuine small forward and a good third tall. I hope ambrose becomes more dangerous offensively
Agreed. Which makes it all the more frustrating that Jake isn't getting the miles into his legs now to set up a great season.
Shane Harvey was the best Essendon player ever. He made Jay Nash look shocking.
Close the damn thread.
I've never made the call for it myself, but I wouldn't miss this one.
What a load of cockwomble!
Started out in the right vein .. then quickly went to berserk town.
If we divide the list into 4 segments i would say:
Defense - 8.5/10 - really strong defense with Hooker/Hurley/Baguley and Hibberd all top notch defensive players. Dempsey and Fletcher are still quite good as well. Even have some likely defensive prospects in Ashby, Gleeson, Dalgleish, Gwilt. Lack a good third tall after Fletch.
Midfield - 7.5/10 - Jobe/Heppell are genuine top line players and then we have a host of 'pretty good' to very good players. We probably need a player like Zaharakis to make the step up to top line player and maybe a few of our younger players to move up a notch or two as well. This line is capable of being much better than this but consistency has been a problem.
Forward - 6/10 - Disclaimer: I'm being optimistic on the continued development of Carlisle/Daniher. Without those 2 coming on its been about 3.5/4 the last few years. I'm also counting on Zerrett to play a big role as well. Then we have a host of other rather iffy prospects that may be too old, too injury prone or just not good enough but are all capable of some good performances. On the bright side its not too hard for us to improve our forward line - our leading goal kickers in the last few years have struggled to make 30 goals.
Ruck - 6.5/10 - Solid ruck division without being anything special. It is possible for Bellchambers/Giles to step up, neither are that old but based on exposed form i can't put them any higher.
We also have a well acknowledged lack of tall depth but seem to be fairly well stocked for smalls in terms of depth anyway. Overall we are going to need a huge improvement from our forward line and midfield to get anywhere near a flag in the next 2 years.
There are two ways to look at this:
The list now
I think the list now is pretty cherry ripe. The issue is that a lot of our tall depth is on the rookie list, so we wouldn’t want a number of short-term injuries to our talls. Or we’ll be hoping for a long term injury. We’re probably a touch light for small forwards as well, but no list is perfect. If the midfielders can stay fit and in form we bat pretty deep. With Zerrett & Colyer stepping up, acquiring Cooney, now Howlett & Melksham are probably depth. Not a bad place to be. Especially if any of Dalgiesh, Hams, Laverge could step up. All would add more pace as well.
Generally, I have high expectations/demands for next year.
The list longer term
There are a few concerns here. The core best 22 talls are all youngish, but with the exception of JD not as young as thought. Given the earliest we can take a tall is the 2015 draft, and they take 4-5 years to establish themselves, they’ll be ready about 2019/2020. By then our talls will be older. So we need to nail the 2015 talls. Worryingly, that is currently being mooted a midfielders draft…
In the shorter term, we may also need to replace Fletcher. Hopefully Steinberg is that man. If not, we have a problem sooner than later.
In the midfield, it’s looking more promising. On the inside Myers/Heppell should be a strength. Zaha, Zerret, Colyer all add speed and ability on the outside. Obviously we need more to step up (Jerret, Laverde, Hams, Gleeson, etc). You would hope/expect that some will. We probably need to add one clearance player, but those can be selected slightly later in the draft.
So the longer term is looking alright, but not brilliant. A lot of good drafting/trading required.
On a side note, although I think Fletch would have helped elsewhere and saved us goals/given rebound, I doubt he'd have stopped more than one (and maybe none) of Brown's goals. Two weren't Stein's fault, and the other two were fast hard leads. Terribly hard for a backman to stop those.Thanks Humble for a well written summation.
One thing I would like to elaborate on is the question of depth. Sure we have a great midfield. As long as the older players are managed and have the opportunity to use the incredible skills they have we could see some great footy from them.
But its the last few places just outside the best 22 where we have been exposed for depth to our great detriment. Against North, we were forced to pick Stein, a VFL player and put him on Brown. Thats because Jake and Fletch were out. I have no doubt Fletch would have matched up better on Brown and probably saved 2 of his goals.
I believe we have more depth now as well as an extra elite midfielder. Dont forget, Tayte Pears may even get fit ! (All he has to do is remember how to play football like he did around 2010). So we have more depth. I also believe the VFL side will do a lot better this year.
Personally, if Pears isn't delisted at the end of this year I'll be very (pleasantly) surprised. He's hasn't been AFL standard for 2-3 years, I don't expect that to miraculously change now.
My understanding is that Dyson wasn't missing out on games due to selection (except maybe his last year) but because of other things making him unavailble. Same with his delisting.......
Abysmal that Stanton was given free reign to kick balls into opponents weekly, run behind players in the backline calling for the ball then duff the kick and give 0 accountability while Dyson was overlooked and then delisted. The careers of those two players should be swapped and I have no idea why one was given all the games and the other none when 1 clearly had 10x more heart than the other ever did or would.
I definitely rated Dyson, and think he was a big part of getting us into finals in 2009. And without his injuries and problems I think he could have challenged Stanton, given his level of ability. But I don't think he did challenge. At all.
And your view of Stanton's impact on the team is pretty ridiculous in my opinion, and the opinion of many opposition coaches and commentators. There is a reason he got tagged for years.
My understanding is that Dyson wasn't missing out on games due to selection (except maybe his last year) but because of other things making him unavailble. Same with his delisting.......
Abysmal that Stanton was given free reign to kick balls into opponents weekly, run behind players in the backline calling for the ball then duff the kick and give 0 accountability while Dyson was overlooked and then delisted. The careers of those two players should be swapped and I have no idea why one was given all the games and the other none when 1 clearly had 10x more heart than the other ever did or would.
I definitely rated Dyson, and think he was a big part of getting us into finals in 2009. And without his injuries and problems I think he could have challenged Stanton, given his level of ability. But I don't think he did challenge. At all.
And your view of Stanton's impact on the team is pretty ridiculous in my opinion, and the opinion of many opposition coaches and commentators. There is a reason he got tagged for years.
All those top 5 finishes in the B & F must been an accident as well, or perhaps they meant some other fella.
Frosty has hit the nail on the hird - The key to pushing for a premiership in the next two years is the group of 3 to 5 year players stepping up - We need 2 or 3 to be good first 22 players.
My understanding is that Dyson wasn't missing out on games due to selection (except maybe his last year) but because of other things making him unavailble. Same with his delisting.......
Abysmal that Stanton was given free reign to kick balls into opponents weekly, run behind players in the backline calling for the ball then duff the kick and give 0 accountability while Dyson was overlooked and then delisted. The careers of those two players should be swapped and I have no idea why one was given all the games and the other none when 1 clearly had 10x more heart than the other ever did or would.
I definitely rated Dyson, and think he was a big part of getting us into finals in 2009. And without his injuries and problems I think he could have challenged Stanton, given his level of ability. But I don't think he did challenge. At all.
And your view of Stanton's impact on the team is pretty ridiculous in my opinion, and the opinion of many opposition coaches and commentators. There is a reason he got tagged for years.
So what were the 'other things' preventing Dyson getting a game , pray tell?
Myers, Zaka and Stanton are 2 too many one way running midfielders so one has to go.
What's bad is Myers and Stanton are REALLY slow off the mark and do not chase their opponents.
What's really really bad is Zaka is really fast off the mark yet you never see him chase and drag down a player with his speed.
When you add a not so fast Jobe, Goddard and Hocking (then Cooney) tou have a slow as fark midfield that if they do not get the ball, their midfield opponents will run forward and ruin our backline.
It's been this way for years, yet the coaches keep giving the same one way running midfielders games, makes no sense.
You lost me at Myers. He won the defensive player of the year at our B&F FFS!
What I've heard is all 2nd hand at best, so I'm not going into details. But my understanding (and maybe it's wrong) is that the parting was a necessity not us just cutting him. Please be clear, I'm not insinuating that Dyson was a naughty boy off field.My understanding is that Dyson wasn't missing out on games due to selection (except maybe his last year) but because of other things making him unavailble. Same with his delisting.......
Abysmal that Stanton was given free reign to kick balls into opponents weekly, run behind players in the backline calling for the ball then duff the kick and give 0 accountability while Dyson was overlooked and then delisted. The careers of those two players should be swapped and I have no idea why one was given all the games and the other none when 1 clearly had 10x more heart than the other ever did or would.
I definitely rated Dyson, and think he was a big part of getting us into finals in 2009. And without his injuries and problems I think he could have challenged Stanton, given his level of ability. But I don't think he did challenge. At all.
And your view of Stanton's impact on the team is pretty ridiculous in my opinion, and the opinion of many opposition coaches and commentators. There is a reason he got tagged for years.
So what were the 'other things' preventing Dyson getting a game , pray tell?
My evaluation is that at the end of 2013 when the club accepted sanctions from the AFL, the list was building to a very strong position to mount a premiership attempt in a short window around approx 2015, while players like Goddard and Watson were still at the top of their games, and before the expansion sides talent came of age and crushed the competition under their AFL-subsidised boots.
Agree with a lot of what you said, except the underlined extract above. I don't understand why it's considered a fait accompli in the minds of so many that the expansion teams will dominate once their junior talent matures a little, given: (a) it's already clear some of that top end end talent will leave and be redistributed within the AFL system (Boyd, Jaksch, Tyson etc.) or not work out (Patton, for example, is arguably already a failure) (b) history is littered with examples of clubs loaded with top-end junior talent that don't go on and achieve sustained success. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it's a long way from a certainty (or even likelihood) in my book.
It's interesting to look back at the industry predictions when the GC / GWS concessions were being decided on 5-6 years ago - according to some, weren't GC / GWS already supposed to be dominating now? I vaguely recall Matt Rendell saying that the structure of the concessions would guarantee a decade of GC / GWS dominance starting in 2015, but as things stand GC still struggle to win a game without Ablett, and GWS are a year or two further back than GC.