It may have crept into their minds as the demons made a comeback but lets be real
We dominated enough of that game to win by 40 odd points
ASADA had nothing to do with our ■■■■ poor delivery inside 50 and shooting for goal, which cost us the game
It may have crept into their minds as the demons made a comeback but lets be real
We dominated enough of that game to win by 40 odd points
ASADA had nothing to do with our ■■■■ poor delivery inside 50 and shooting for goal, which cost us the game
No, I'm not implying that it was solely responsible for the match performance but it certainly wouldn't have helped with either the game itself or preparation.
Anyway, we've lost lots of games we should have won, every team has, it's just the timing of this one that hurts so much.
Was listening to SEN on Friday? I think. Were talking to someone (possibly Voss) about possible effects of the ASADA shitstorm. He said it wouldn’t affect guys going in at the ball or running or tackling but the dead ball situations, when you’ve got a bit of time to think, would be when it could play across their minds.
Situations like lining up for a shot.
Don’t know how anyone could possibly know one way or the other, certainly worth considering.
69-36 inside 50's in our favour
10.17 to 12.6
The simple answer is that bad kicking is bad football
How is it that we could be 33 points up (seemingly showing no bad reaction to the ASADA issue) but when we manage to ****** defeat from the jaws of victory, the ASADA issue can be blamed?
A 149 point turnaround in less than a season and a half!!!!
(hmmm...who would have thought that s n a t c h would get filtered out)
When we were 33 up we'd still missed like 8 easily gettable shots
Was listening to SEN on Friday? I think. Were talking to someone (possibly Voss) about possible effects of the ASADA shitstorm. He said it wouldn't affect guys going in at the ball or running or tackling but the dead ball situations, when you've got a bit of time to think, would be when it could play across their minds.
Situations like lining up for a shot.
Don't know how anyone could possibly know one way or the other, certainly worth considering.
Not to mention opposition players getting into their heads...that wouldn't help
Jackie is specifically saying that the ASADA issue is manifesting in our players' lack of concentration at key points in our games.
How anyone could simply rule this out is pretty laughable. I understand people are upset, but for the love god, have a think about it.
Got to agree with this.
The thing is when the pressure is on, it is so easy to lose focus and start looking for excuses, and to be fair our players have the mother of all farking excuses to mess with their concentration.
They don't have to be thinking about it for every minute of the game, but if they are unsettled and not focussed before hand, it can manifest exactly as we saw on the weekend.
The loss was soul destroying but a day removed I can't help but think to myself "what else can we honestly expect from these guys under these circumstances?".
We are going to lose some more games, some quite badly, but we might win a couple also. More than anything we just need to ride this whole thing out and hope and pray that the club can kill this thing before it does long term damage (more damage) to the boys' careers.
For those pointing out that it was happening pre-ASADA, this is true, so imagine how something like this effects a side that is already struggling for consistency, which is exactly what we were/are prior to all this.
3. At a later training session Thompson makes the following prescient comment:
"The players were a little vague and nervous you could see something was wrong."
What do people make of this comment from the coach at training before the game?
"The players were a little VAGUE" I think this equates fairly strongly to lacking concentration and focus.
They were nobbled?
My argument is that the poor kicking showed a lack of concentration and the lack of concentration and focus, bearing in mind the contrast to how they trained on Thursday, is probably due in part to the ASADA issue.
The ASADA rubbish has cost us many games, and possibly a premiership window.
But it didn't cost us this game. Poor kicking is the sole reason we lost.
I put this forward as the most demonstrable evidence so far of the ASADA effect but accept that it is supposition and not quantitatively measurable.
I agree... It does affect concentration. Most of our good play was quick, and goals on the run. (Zaka) once they had time to think, we were all over the place.
I think the ASADA situation was a blessing and curse for yesterday's game.
I believe it fuelled a bit of the fire that allowed us to dominate so many areas of the game.
But ultimately using the mental energy it takes to control your emotions takes its toll.
Don't forget, you can be focused with all your concious thoughts.
But those fears regarding the outcome of the ASADA investigation are still sitting in the player's subconcious.
They themselves could think it's not effecting them game day, when in reality it is.
And what about the constant bombing into the 50 without any real system?
Kick and hope stuff opposed to focus and concentration.
It was like seeing a pressured kick into the 50 when there was no pressure at all.
Or was there?
I think the main point in this thread that’s missing is; fatigue.
While the ASADA situation may not be the reason for the loss (it could never be the sole reason), there are usually number of factors which result in losing a game like this.
Anyone that plays social sport will have been in a situation where you’re clearly in the box seat to win, with a comfortable lead. Then the opposition some how gives themselves a sniff, then wins the game. You come off the ground looking at your teammates thinking wtf.
But when You start breaking the game down, then you realise that you and your team mates just started ignoring their role or fatigue kicks in and you lose concentration about what your suppose to be doing. Who knows what factors are at play to cause this sort of fatigue.
I think that’s the point which is being made. While the players weren’t thinking about ASADA (it’s stupid to even suggest it) when kicking for goal, the fatigue from the days prior might have been enough for them to switch off like 5% and they had stopped going through their regular kicking routine in their head, for example.
3. At a later training session Thompson makes the following prescient comment:
"The players were a little vague and nervous you could see something was wrong."
What do people make of this comment from the coach at training before the game?
"The players were a little VAGUE" I think this equates fairly strongly to lacking concentration and focus.
I took out of that that they were struggling to concentrate. They were able to switch on at vrious times, and when they did they had Melbourne's measure, but they also let easy chances to finish them slip away.
The problem was maintaining the concentration, and in a team game, even if 2 guys concentration slips you have a problem.
I think the failure to get the ball out of bounds in a contested situation in our forward pocket late was a concentration lapse. Possibly related to fatigue, possibly related to mental fatigue, possibly related to all of the distractions going on.
And that is just one small case. Concentration ebbs and flows across 22 players across the course of the game. Even if it's just a little off as a group the opposition can take advantage. It's no surprise to me that the 3rd quarter was when it started to fall away.
I believe mental exhaustion can affect physical performance.
They kicked badly, a mental/concentration problem, then stopped doing the things that got them so far in front, despite the poor kicking.
You could easily explain it on the week they've had.
Mental fatigue is just as damaging as Physical fatigure, possibly even more so.
I have never left a game so angry as I did on Sunday, because even when we were 30+ points up I could see that we were actually in a losing position.
I sent a text to my partner at that point saying I hate football, because of the position I find the EFC, its players and its supporters.
It is clearly evident during games that this drama is costing us quality games of football. We have heavy legs, no run and no spark!
This rubbish has to get wrapped up this year, because if it goes on much longer, the results will be far more devastating in regards to win/loss than we could ever imagine.
That Bellchambers miss in the last was horrible. That and Hurley leaving his man in the dying seconds and not influencing the contest.
Look back, Goddard isn't actually that good on the run, he is a gun set shot.
This thread seems as good as any to discuss this.
Bomber was pretty upset about our players not implementing the gameplan after sunday. As much a some here like to bag our game plan i think it is more a case of our players not implementing it at all or not implementing it well.
There are 2 key components of the game plan where i think we are falling down.
1. Playing on from a mark and kicking
watch the way BJ plays and then compare it to near everyone else on game day. BJ rarely if ever goes back from his mark. He just runs through the mark turning blindly and immediately onto his right side. He is backing the guys up the ground to be giving him a 45. that is the way bomber wants the whole side to play but name another player that does it consistently. The players are not backing themselves and they aren't back each other to be doing the right thing by the ball carrier up the field.
2. Forward Line.
I'd like to hear what jackie has to say on this but we certainly seem intent on sunday to kick to a spot 30 out dead in front. however our big forwards also seemed intent on standing there in a pair in exactly that spot waiting for it. Strike me down if about a third of our entries didn't follow the following script - long kick to 30 out - tbell and jd standing there like scarecrows with their opponents - either one or the other fails to keep their man out of the contest and the dees defenders mark or clear the zone with an effective spoil.
i don't have an issue with wanting to attack a designated area but farking clear out the space and have the forwards attack it and meet the ball not ■■■■■■ stand there calling for it in long. If a spare wants to go and plonk himself in that whole fine. pop it up on his and have the pack crash him. you are still less likely to have a defender mark the ball or clear that zone with a clean spoil.
we didn't seem able to get enough crumbers back to this spot either to support our talls.
i nearly gave myself a stroke watching our fwd line on sunday.
Definite mental fatigue in the second half. We hit 33 points up and they switched off. Towards the end you could see Melbourne wanted it more, their attack on the ball and man were much hungrier than ours, and their run much harder. It's just that it should never have been that way, we should have been 8 goals clear at the half time break and been able to ride it home from there.
So I'm fence sitting the issue, some of it was kicking, some of it was asada.
That Bellchambers miss in the last was horrible. That and Hurley leaving his man in the dying seconds and not influencing the contest.
Look back, Goddard isn't actually that good on the run, he is a gun set shot.
not to mention that in the last minute of the game with us leading more than half our side seemed to follow a long speculative kick inside 50 and left our backline totally exposed on the rebound.
where the fark was the onfield leadership. where were the players dropping back behind the play.
why in the hell did our entire midfield follow that kick in. count the number of bombers forward of chappy as he kicks it at the point . i get to 12. i get to 9 as the ball is turned over to melbourne's 8 in our 50 and 12 forward of the centre square. what the ■■■■■■ hell is that. at this point in the game we should be aiming to have at least 2 spare defenders well behind and that kick down the line spoiled over the boundary. it's suburban league stuff. fark me.
that's twice the season we have lost games because we completely lost our defensive structure and got caught ball watching in the dieing moments. farking unforgivable. this one is even worse than the hawthorn one because we turned it over on a slow play and failed to find the boundary in our forward line.
2. Forward Line.
I'd like to hear what jackie has to say on this
but we certainly seem intent on sunday to kick to a spot 30 out dead in front. however our big forwards also seemed intent on standing there in a pair in exactly that spot waiting for it. Strike me down if about a third of our entries didn't follow the following script - long kick to 30 out - tbell and jd standing there like scarecrows with their opponents - either one or the other fails to keep their man out of the contest and the dees defenders mark or clear the zone with an effective spoil.
we didn't seem able to get enough crumbers back to this spot either to support our talls.
Ivan a lot of what you say is true. They continually kicked long to contests that were less than one on one. This might still have worked if Joe had held his marks but he didn't. I remember seeing his hands on one occassion being flat when the ball met them.
This brings your point about the lack of crumbers into play to feed off the ball coming to ground. I never thought I would say this but I think Delolio might have been more value than Winderlich who needs to find form in the VFL.
(I would also point out thay there was also a problem of kicking high to Chapman ala Alwyn Davey even when he was surrounded by three players.)
Since I wrote this discussion topic I have received a message from the EFC on Craig's Comments. He has been the main goal kicking coach this year - especially with Joe Daniher. We are told that he has gone to New York for a "Leaders In Performance Conference" at a time when goal kicking has just been the main factor in losing on Sunday. Has the club got the priorities right here?
Since I wrote this discussion topic I have received a message from the EFC on Craig's Comments. He has been the main goal kicking coach this year - especially with Joe Daniher. We are told that he has gone to New York for a "Leaders In Performance Conference" at a time when goal kicking has just been the main factor in losing on Sunday. Has the club got the priorities right here?
Given the amount of weight we've been forced to lump on Joe's shoulder's in our current forward line set-up, it seems ridiculous that we haven't employed a specialist goal-kicking coach to work with him on an ongoing basis.
A bit over half way through the season and he's kicked 15-11 + a few out on the full. So in reality he is probably kicking at about 50 percent. Thing is the kicks he is missing are 25-40 metres out and for the most part incredibly gettable. It's not like he's repeatedly leading to the boundary line.
I don't care who it is, Lloyd, BT, Adam Yze, Jack Gunston (!) or that guy Perkins guy who coached Hurley in 2012.
I know Joe has the drive and the desire to get better, and he is likely doing the work required to improve his technique, But, it'd be great to know that it wasn't Goodwin or Craig working on it with him, given they already have a multitude of tasks to tend to.