OK, Woosha is looking good, and I like the way he handled 2016 but remember it was only 3 years ago that he resigned from the Eagles in similar circumstances to Hird, that is after 3 disastrous losses and having lost a significant part of the playing group.
2016 was a learning year but I strongly believe we will see a different Woosha in 2017, not the smiling pharmacist who is about “learning and driving elite standards”, but the tough guy who wants his team to win and will start driving them really hard.
He’s gonna do what the majority of supporters want then. Excellent.
Jackie, back in 2014 with bomber in charge I'm pretty sure the pre-season expectations from the coaching panel were for top 4. Obviously it didn't work out that way but it was our best year in recent times. I know you and Karma were bigger fans of Bomber than Hird.
How does the training this pre-season compare to the 2014 pre-season.
Good question
I see as the main differences:
We have a stronger, more balanced list. This is apparent when you try to pick a best 22, it’s very difficult this year.
We have bedded down the new training facility.
3).The return of ten experienced players is unprecedented.
Bomber was an excellent coach but had a left field personality that led to unease with some players and officials.
Hird was aloof and self centred and about the same standard as Buckley and Voss. He trained the players hard for the start of the season but they invariably fell away in the second half of the season.
So far Woosha seems very calm and pragmatic and as far as I can tell is highly respected by the players and the coaching team. In addition he has won over the supporters on the basis of his ability for coaching not for his ability as a player.
My expectation is that the players, with the exception of the ruck stocks, are fit and jumping out of their skins for the start of the season but will improve in the second half of the season as was the pattern last year.
In sum we are better prepared than at the start of the 2014 pre season in my opinion.
Jackie, you’ve given a lot of good, objective reasons for optimism there, but may I ask you for an answer to Aboods’ question based on your personal impression of the mood of the players, the intensity of the training sessions, the level of skill shown and things like that? The “vibe”. How does it compare with 2014 (and other recent years, for that matter)?
Your training reports often mention those things in a very positive way, but things are usually pretty upbeat during the pre-season. Does this year feel different or really much the same?
Beware of crediting me with more knowledge than I actually possess.
The vibe seems better because the saga is behind us and we have the return of a tight knit group of experienced players with something to prove on the field not in the courts.
The vibe feels better because of the fast tracked development last year of some middle level and bottom tier players.
The vibe seems better (without offending anyone by my assessment) because we appear to have a very good coach.
The vibe feels better to me because the optimism has a logical underpinning.
None of this means I’m right and it tells us nothing about the level of development at other clubs which is a hugely relevant factor.
Lastly with regard to skills they have improved because we have brought in about fifteen new players but while the club works on individual skills such as Joe’s goal kicking it is a lengthy, on going process, not magically better at the start of a new season.
Thank you. You’re as careful with what you say as I am.
I reckon Hird, Bomber and Woosha were/are all pretty good coaches. But I also reckon the significance of coaching is overrated. If the players handpass to each others ankles and kick it 10 metres over our forwards’ heads then we’re going to lose. If they pass accurately and kick straight then we win. It’s really not complicated.
I reckon Hird, Bomber and Woosha were/are all pretty good coaches. But I also reckon the significance of coaching is overrated. If the players handpass to each others ankles and kick it 10 metres over our forwards' heads then we're going to lose. If they pass accurately and kick straight then we win. It's really not complicated.
I hear Richmond are looking for a coach at the end of 2017. You should get that CV ready.
...he resigned from the Eagles in similar circumstances to Hird, that is after 3 disastrous losses and having lost a significant part of the playing group.
I know this has been already discussed to death previously on the coaching thread. At least Worsfold to the very end was going into bat for his players at West Coast during that time (just as Hird was for us), and saying the list was capable of winning a grand-final. The Western Australian media was going absolutely full retard on the Eagles, and were talking about a complete (fark) Carlton like team re-build, and that Worsfold wasn’t the man for the job. And all the time trumpeting Ross Lyon as the ultimate coach, and Fremantle as being the dominant force in the competition for years to come. In some ways history has vindicated Worsfold, as the Eagles played in a grand-final only two seasons later and Fremantle were the ones looking like they needed a complete rebuild.
OK, Woosha is looking good, and I like the way he handled 2016 but remember it was only 3 years ago that he resigned from the Eagles in similar circumstances to Hird, that is after 3 disastrous losses and having lost a significant part of the playing group.
2016 was a learning year but I strongly believe we will see a different Woosha in 2017, not the smiling pharmacist who is about “learning and driving elite standards”, but the tough guy who wants his team to win and will start driving them really hard.
I love Woosha as a coach but on the topic of Hird as a coach I often wondered how he managed to even function as a human being let alone a senior coach with all the unrelenting negative media pressure he was under on a daily basis -camped outside his house every day - surprised he didn’t have a total breakdown.
I think spending time rating all the coaches of the last decade is fantastic discussion and we should just keep doing it all the way into next year and further.
You can't say things like that about Hird, jackie.
The devotees will have you up under 18C, or for lèse-majesté or something.
Sounds like Jackie has been ‘sucked in by the media.’
I guess in a sense I am the media but with no evil master to serve.
All I’ve done is rank three coaches as I see their performances as coach… Feel free to disagree with my obsrvations.
It might be instructive to the debate to see people rank them 1, 2, 3 and then relate this factor to how good this pre season is comparative to 2014 the quality of coaching being an obvious factor to consider.
I don’t disagree with your observations. I’d rank them exactly the same as you did.
Jackie, back in 2014 with bomber in charge I'm pretty sure the pre-season expectations from the coaching panel were for top 4. Obviously it didn't work out that way but it was our best year in recent times. I know you and Karma were bigger fans of Bomber than Hird.
How does the training this pre-season compare to the 2014 pre-season.
Looking back on that I can’t think why everyone was so optimistic. The internal upheaval was massive. Yeah, it only got worse. Now, it feels like we have more young talent and more ability on every line. The biggest difference though is a stable coaching team who seem to be going about things very steadily without any fuss or preconception.
Man, I like Worsfold’s style. Just a smile and a gaze past that nose that tells you all you need to know.
Well, to be fair it wasn’t entirely stupid. Until the last 7 odd rounds we were in the top 4 the year before. Blitz downplayed losing Crameri, which meant it was felt we hadn’t really lost much and there were expectations around improvements in some younger players, and a better injury run. The assumption was that 2013 performance pre-collapse was indicative of how we could go, that Thompson would merely continue Hird’s coaching system and that the Saga was over now that we’d copped the penalties.
History of course says a lot of those assumptions were rubbish. Crameri leaving, Belly’s injury (which meant Ryder was full time ruck), Winderlich’s decline, Kommer’s injury and Hurley back totally changed our forward line which dropped off in productivity. Either because of Thompson/injuries/other teams working us out our game plan changed and our ball movement changed to treacle, exacerbating the forward issues. The Saga obviously didn’t end and caused rifts such as Ryder’s exit and the coaching situation probably didn’t help.
Some of that was a little foreseeable, but I can still understand us pushing for top 4. Especially as some wasn’t foreseeable/known.
Excellent.
