But surely the more points they get the less further back in the draft they get pushed back for their next pick. It can even push back their first pick next year I think?Surely 23 & 25 wouldn't cut it for pick 8. It's worth slightly more points but you'd think another club is willing to put something together that is worth more points than our offer. GWS would obviously just take the one with the most points wherever it comes from, it's a sellers market. Maybe it'd take 18 & 25 to get pick 8.I don’t think they need a hundred extra points on top, just enough to get their kids.
So…
I'm surprised Carlisle is still even giving us the chance to hunt pick 5 from saints.If you get asked to come play for the best team in the comp… why would you hesitate?? Most players would have ditched St Kilda the moment the call came through.
Also the Carlisle deal shouldn’t hold up the 23+25 = 8 deal. I still think that is better for us, no matter whether we get 5 or 15,18. Three top 10 picks should be enough to work with!
More than 50 of the pages on this thread are your posts alone. I’m starting to dislike Joe D thanks to you
Hey GB
I’m just really happy you didn’t pull the pin like you said you were going to after Hirdy went - I kind of dig your avatar
No I was never going to pull the pin, I said I would now watch from a far… I’m watching and I’m getting excited again.
Would be great if this place lost a few of the broken records.
Draft day 2015 - The Fappening
But surely the more points they get the less further back in the draft they get pushed back for their next pick. It can even push back their first pick next year I think?Surely 23 & 25 wouldn't cut it for pick 8. It's worth slightly more points but you'd think another club is willing to put something together that is worth more points than our offer. GWS would obviously just take the one with the most points wherever it comes from, it's a sellers market. Maybe it'd take 18 & 25 to get pick 8.I don’t think they need a hundred extra points on top, just enough to get their kids.
So…
between the heat & afternoon movements, there will be a few st kilda employees on very little sleep tonight
This is excellent, it’s like when a really really poor poker player calls your bluff and doesn’t realise the strength of their hand when the cards are revealed
I love this picture. Wonder what he is carrying in that bags. Finnis' balls?
Soap.
So he can wash his hands of St Kilda.
I refuse to go to big footy burns would actually love to know the tone of the saints supporters
Wheel has definately turned, old mate Wilson basically accused the Saints of low balling us and being realistic. Said the deal should of been done and dusted but now the Hawks will take him
Random luck (thanks Melksham) that we happen to have two picks that match theirs.
Question: what happens if someone gets a compensation pick before 25, either before or after said possible trade? Do the points all shift (and 23+1 and 25+1 is no longer worth 8) and is that just crap luck for them if the trade has been made?
Though I guess you could chuck in a pointless fourth round swap of picks to get the points balanced again???
Take Freeman and bid for Rice just for giggles now
I would love to see Carlisle go to Hawks as that deal craps all over Saints, but if we get bent over by Carlisle’s determination to end up at that pissant of a club called Saints then surely the AFL need to step in to prevent clubs getting bent over to accept less than the better offer that is tabled. It happened when the Crows were going to offer their first rounder for Polec and now it will happen again if Carlisle get his way.
Wheel has definately turned, old mate Wilson basically accused the Saints of low balling us and being realistic. Said the deal should of been done and dusted but now the Hawks will take him
I refuse to agree with her. Even when she’s right.
GWS would have to be clinically retarded to accept that.No they need those picks to get their 2 academy guys and those 2 picks get it done, 8 only gets one of them
Yes but they can get better than 23 and 25. That point allocation system is so fkn arbitrary, pick 8 is extremely more valuable that pick 23 and 25. If we did that trade with Hawks (15 & 18) I don’t see why they wouldn’t be asking for 18 and 23 for 8 at the very least. I understand the system and point allocation and academy guys - but there is no way selection 8 equates to 23 & 25. Because if you had in selection 60 lets say, then GWS are giving up too much according to the points system, but that select 60 means nothing to us.
Just out of curiousity, what the flying duck was Saints offer anyway? Was it their 2nd round pick only with no negoation for next years first round??? Or was there absolutely nothing at all except for a no for everything we suggested?
Just out of curiousity, what the flying duck was Saints offer anyway? Was it their 2nd round pick only with no negoation for next years first round??? Or was there absolutely nothing at all except for a no for everything we suggested?
As far as i can work out its been the second one
Essendon's big day continues with reports that the Bombers are looking at giving picks 23 & 25 to the GWS Giants for pick eight in return.Picks 23 & 25 would give the Giants enough points to secure academy young guns Jacob Hooper and Matthew Kennedy under the new academy system.
Should this all happen and Jake Carlisle gets to the Hawks, it would give the Bombers picks 4, 8, 15 & 18
Not ashamed to say that when I read that I began giggling like a school girl.
Wonder if the St Kilda school girl is giggling right now?
Great Article by Jake Niall in the Age…
Not for the first time, Hawthorn has shown the Saints how to do something. In this case, the lesson handed out is in the art of landing a player.
If St Kilda does not move quickly and find a way to satisfy Essendon, then Jake Carlisle will be wearing a brown and gold jumper – and quite possibly a premiership medal – in 2016. He will look good in that garish jumper, but it will not be a good look for the rest of the competition.
The Hawks don’t muck around when they want a player. Nor do the Cats, who are renowned for the clarity of their position, for preparing contingency plans and a willingness to compromise. But the Saints have pursued Carlisle without a reliable game plan, one that will stand up in October. St Kilda does not want to part with pick no 5 for Carlisle. The Saints have said this often enough for it to be a verse in the club song. But everyone has known all along that they cannot get big Jake without trading pick 5 – or next year’s first pick – as part of the deal.
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Unwilling to part with no 5 in a direct swap with the Bombers, the Saints are relying on the kindness of strangers. Their plan, obviously, has been to trade no 5 “down” for two draft first round picks, keeping one and handing the other to Essendon.
Unfortunately, any plan that relies on third parties is fraught – it’s like pinning legislative hopes on support from Clive Palmer. Gold Coast, Adelaide, North or someone has to give up the necessary pick or picks. The Saints tried this on the Crows, but were asking for too much in return for pick 5.
They also don’t have a single player that can be traded for Carlisle. Jack Billings and Hugh Goddard have been ruled out. Alas, there aren’t many others that the Bombers would take for Jake. An Essendon request for St Kilda’s future pick likewise was turned down.
The Saints are right that Carlisle isn’t quite worth pick 5. He’s probably worth a pick from 7-12 in this draft. But the Saints have offered him a contract that defines him as worth close to pick no 5 (we believe around $650,000 x five years); had Carlisle been a free agent, guess what Essendon would receive in draft compensation? Yep, pick 5.
The economics of trading remains that clubs pay a higher price to recruit a talented proven player without a criminal record, unless they have leverage (such as an early spot in the pre-season draft or as in Paddy Dangerfield’s case, free agency). Collingwood has offered two first round picks for Adam Treloar. This is overs and it might eventually hurt the Pies, particularly if they bomb next year. But they have committed to the player and are willing to pay a premium.
Geelong is likely giving Carlton more than the hypothetical worth of Lachie Henderson, depending on where the Cats finish next year. North, too, is dangling pick 15 for Jed Anderson, which is slightly above the award rate for a third year player who didn’t make the premiership 22.
The estimated worth of a player is an abstract concept anyway. Essendon has a bid for picks 15 and 18, which according to the AFL’s own convoluted “points” system for academy players, is slightly greater than the worth of pick 5.
Carlisle has already exchanged pleasantries with Alastair Clarkson which means that, whatever the Saints say, he is amenable to helping the Hawks try to complete the “four-play” of four flags on end. Jake’s commitment, thus, contains fine print – he will marry the Saints, but if they can’t pay the dowry, he’ll walk down the aisle with the Hawks.
In fairness to the Saints, it’s arguable that they should not give up pick 5, given the state of their rebuild. Perhaps, the Hawks have actually done them a favour by offering them a way out of the impasse.
The Saints can walk away and let Carlisle play for Hawthorn. Today, the Saints are facing the same question that was posed by the man who coached both clubs to flags, Allan Jeans, in the 1989 grand final – are you willing to pay the price?
Are picks 23&25 enough points for GWS to give up pick 8 (apologies havent followed the full thread)?
Or is that only viable if we trade for 15,18 from Hawks
We’re the ones not asking enough from St Sookylalas.
It should be Carlisle for their pick 5 and their second rounder.
Carlisle is a proven player, pick 5 and a second rounder aren’t.