#22 - Jake Carlisle: Gone

What I'm somewhat curious about, is why Jake just didnt say / hasn't said, "It was powdered sugar, me & a mate did it for a lark. We were mocking some Americans we met the night before" or something like that. It would be as believeable as anything else, & who could prove o/wise??

Certainly would have saved him a lot of drama & money, & he still hasn’t actually said he did use drugs, & again, who (other than those with him), could say anything different, & even if they did, they couldn’t prove it. It’s all a bit strange.

This is based off of different premises, being a legal system in another country, but still, this video might help to answer your question:

My guess is that he would have paid a fair bit of money for a lawyer to have worded that statement on his behalf. Lawyers like to give away as little as possible.

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

There hasn’t been a widely circulated video of him setting a dwarf on fire, or running a military coup in Guam, but if he was, and they were not him or not true, do you think he’d deny it? Or say “I’m sorry for what I did” ?

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

What I'm somewhat curious about, is why Jake just didnt say / hasn't said, "It was powdered sugar, me & a mate did it for a lark. We were mocking some Americans we met the night before" or something like that. It would be as believable as anything else, & who could prove o/wise??

Certainly would have saved him a lot of drama & money, & he still hasn’t actually said he did use drugs, & again, who (other than those with him), could say anything different, & even if they did, they couldn’t prove it. It’s all a bit strange.


I can think of one reason - a reason which would pretty much fit in with his statement accepting any punishment coming his way for what he’s done…

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck… and nobody’s claiming it’s not a duck = it’s a duck.

“His “mates” might have saved his life despite being idiots. Birds of a feather…”

The old Socratic theory that the best thing you can do for an evil doing friend is to ensure that they are severely punished, even if the deserved punishment is execution, which seems a little extreme to me, I must say. It’s early on in Gorgias.
Worth noting that he also says that we should try to ensure that our evil doing enemies should get off scot free, theorising that in this manner they will suffer down the track, in Hades, when it really matters. But I’m stuffed if I reckon letting Fark Carlton get away with anything whatsoever is an option, even if screwing them does keep them out of Hades.

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

Yeah that’s where I’m getting at. But being a bush lawyer, I wouldn’t mind a whole run down of the ins and outs from someone who has some expertise.

BTW I think it has to be more than true to hold up in court. I seem to recall from somewhere that it also has to be ‘in the public interest’ which is probably defined in case law.

I agree that it is unlikely for him to sue. Very unlikely. Mainly because the expectation from his new club is that he puts his head down and plays good footy and isn’t heard from otherwise. Much like many people were against JH taking legal action - they wanted him to just get on with coaching.

But if he did sue, then I think that in court he would have to testify that in that video he was not snorting cocaine for a defamation case to hold up. But there is no requirement for him to say that in a media statement. Just as there is no requirement for him to say that he did set fire to a dwarf in a media statement.

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

There hasn’t been a widely circulated video of him setting a dwarf on fire, or running a military coup in Guam, but if he was, and they were not him or not true, do you think he’d deny it? Or say “I’m sorry for what I did” ?

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

So yes he has to deny it. But he doesn’t have to deny it in a media statement. What he tells the judge/jury is the only relevant denial.

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

Yeah that’s where I’m getting at. But being a bush lawyer, I wouldn’t mind a whole run down of the ins and outs from someone who has some expertise.

BTW I think it has to be more than true to hold up in court. I seem to recall from somewhere that it also has to be ‘in the public interest’ which is probably defined in case law.

I agree that it is unlikely for him to sue. Very unlikely. Mainly because the expectation from his new club is that he puts his head down and plays good footy and isn’t heard from otherwise. Much like many people were against JH taking legal action - they wanted him to just get on with coaching.

But if he did sue, then I think that in court he would have to testify that in that video he was not snorting cocaine for a defamation case to hold up. But there is no requirement for him to say that in a media statement. Just as there is no requirement for him to say that he did set fire to a dwarf in a media statement.


I think that’s more when someone digs up and spreads a personal, private detail - ie who’s tapping who.
This is, obviously, already in the public eye, ever since it ran on prime time TV - the cat is out of the bag.
But if he did sue, then I think that in court he would have to testify that in that video he was not snorting cocaine for a defamation case to hold up. But there is no requirement for him to say that in a media statement. Just as there is no requirement for him to say that he did set fire to a dwarf in a media statement.
He would. And if he was lying he'd be perjuring himself, very serious.

I’m just saying if it was flour or wizz fizz (even without your ‘requirements’ - what requirement??) it’d be easy enough to say in a media statement, and then you could shake around cease-and-desists to anyone saying it was coke.

As far as I know the Australian law is that it has to be substantially true. ie if I say you’ve got 10 illegal thingummies, and you’ve actually got 9 illegal thingummies, I don’t reckon that case would get up. Let alone if I say you’ve got ‘what appears to be 10 illegal thingummies’…

You’re still stretching & trying to make up scenarios here where it’s not. Easiest, most logical situation that fits all the facts is…

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

There hasn’t been a widely circulated video of him setting a dwarf on fire, or running a military coup in Guam, but if he was, and they were not him or not true, do you think he’d deny it? Or say “I’m sorry for what I did” ?

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

So yes he has to deny it. But he doesn’t have to deny it in a media statement. What he tells the judge/jury is the only relevant denial.


Wanna bet on whether he does that or not?? I’ll give you 100-1.

I get why people would say: “You can’t blame his friends, he needs help!”

But the fact of the matter is, you don’t go asking for a 20k handout to “help” your mate or put whatever he is doing out there into the public eye either.

You talk to them and their family in private and you arrange a way to get them help. You don’t film them in the act and then use it to benefit yourself.

And just on that, . who says he needs help? As I’ve said before, it’s hardly a crisis if a young bloke has a tipple in the off season, he’s just doing what half the blokes or more his age does every other w/end if not every w/end. Is there any evidence to show that he actually has a “problem”?

Only thing he did wrong, was to show off to blokes he thought were friends, & he’s hardly the lone ranger when it comes to being 20 something & big noting* yourself.

(*It was a hungee he was using wasn’t it?)

The following morning Carlisle released a statement apologising for his behaviour, in what was interpreted as an admission of drug use.
Legit legal question for the Q.C.s out there: How is this statement not defamatory?
Seriously? That seems an entirely appropriate sentence to me. Many wouldn't have had the "interpreted as" bit.

It’s a sensible and logical enough sentence. But I don’t see how it isn’t defamatory.

Jake omitted in his statement to profess that he did not inhale, but that’s not an admission. As soon as you say “many have interpreted” then you are getting into weasel words. Who has interpreted? And if you publish one of these supposed interpretations, then that would be getting ever closer to defamation.

My question is a legal question, not a common sense having a private conversation with your mate question.


How can it possibly be defamatory?
He was filmed snorting coke. And he didn’t & hasn’t denied it.

Ah… no he wasn’t. He was filmed snorting a white powder. Could have been anything.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?

And HAP as for “he hasn’t denied it” - that is completely irrelevant. In other news, Jake Carlisle hasn’t denied setting a dwarf on fire.

He is clearly guilty HAP because HE HASN’T DENIED IT.

We have laws and a legal system for a reason.


In your scenario he’s going to pursue someone for saying something that looks like a duck, looks like a duck - without denying it’s a duck?

Can’t you see that that doesn’t make sense?

You either deny it, in which case you can sue for defamation - or you don’t.

There hasn’t been a widely circulated video of him setting a dwarf on fire, or running a military coup in Guam, but if he was, and they were not him or not true, do you think he’d deny it? Or say “I’m sorry for what I did” ?

Defamation is only defamation if it’s not true…

So yes he has to deny it. But he doesn’t have to deny it in a media statement. What he tells the judge/jury is the only relevant denial.


Wanna bet on whether he does that or not?? I’ll give you 100-1.

Ja. won’t happen

I am not saying his mates did it for good reasons. They are arseholes no doubt. But inadvertently they may have saved his life by exposing some issues before they get out of hand.

And just on that, . who says he needs help? As I've said before, it's hardly a crisis if a young bloke has a tipple in the off season, he's just doing what half the blokes or more his age does every other w/end if not every w/end. Is there any evidence to show that he actually has a "problem"?

Only thing he did wrong, was to show off to blokes he thought were freinds, & he’s hardly the lone ranger when it comes to being 20 something & big noting* yourself.

(*It was a hungee he was using wasn’t it?)

Don’t do drugs

And just on that, . who says he needs help? As I've said before, it's hardly a crisis if a young bloke has a tipple in the off season, he's just doing what half the blokes or more his age does every other w/end if not every w/end. Is there any evidence to show that he actually has a "problem"?

Only thing he did wrong, was to show off to blokes he thought were freinds, & he’s hardly the lone ranger when it comes to being 20 something & big noting* yourself.

(*It was a hungee he was using wasn’t it?)

Don’t do drugs

Ok Captain Purity.

And just on that, . who says he needs help? As I've said before, it's hardly a crisis if a young bloke has a tipple in the off season, he's just doing what half the blokes or more his age does every other w/end if not every w/end. Is there any evidence to show that he actually has a "problem"?

Only thing he did wrong, was to show off to blokes he thought were freinds, & he’s hardly the lone ranger when it comes to being 20 something & big noting* yourself.

(*It was a hungee he was using wasn’t it?)

Don’t do drugs

Mmkay, if you do drugs you’re not a quality person, mmkay.

Why on earth would he say anything? There is no requirement on him to say anything. Nobody can prove anything. I don’t think he has to prove it wasn’t a drug in a defamation case either, he only has to prove he was defamed, loss of reputation etc (which might be a bit difficult having put the video out there himself). They have to prove that it is true AFAIK

And just on that, . who says he needs help? As I've said before, it's hardly a crisis if a young bloke has a tipple in the off season, he's just doing what half the blokes or more his age does every other w/end if not every w/end. Is there any evidence to show that he actually has a "problem"?

Only thing he did wrong, was to show off to blokes he thought were freinds, & he’s hardly the lone ranger when it comes to being 20 something & big noting* yourself.

(*It was a hungee he was using wasn’t it?)

Don’t do drugs

Ok Captain Purity.

I’m just saying has society come to the point where an expectation or advice not to do drugs is met with incredulity (whatever that word is).

Not just reboot but in general. I’m no right wing Christian either. I’ve dabbled and mostly thrown up afterwards.

Why on earth would he say anything? There is no requirement on him to say anything. Nobody can prove anything. I don't think he has to prove it wasn't a drug in a defamation case either, he only has to prove he was defamed, loss of reputation etc (which might be a bit difficult having put the video out there himself). They have to prove that it is true AFAIK
Badabing - I would say nearly impossible.

How could you think less of him after the statement that “it looked like drugs”, when the video clearly looks like drugs??

What I'm somewhat curious about, is why Jake just didnt say / hasn't said, "It was powdered sugar, me & a mate did it for a lark. We were mocking some Americans we met the night before" or something like that. It would be as believable as anything else, & who could prove o/wise??

Certainly would have saved him a lot of drama & money, & he still hasn’t actually said he did use drugs, & again, who (other than those with him), could say anything different, & even if they did, they couldn’t prove it. It’s all a bit strange.

no one would have bought that and jake and the saints wouldve been digging their way out of bad publicity for a much longer period of time. hes admitted that hes done something wrong and now the attention is starting to die down. imagine the saints trying to explain to the public why their star recruit is loosing hundreds of thousands of dollars from his contract for snorting sugar. this also gives the saints alot of publicity about how theyve cleaned up their act. “we wont tolerate druggos, schoolgirls and dickpics… but milney didnt do it”