I was probably a bit harsh on him, but yeah he’s damn slow
Im far, far from convinced on him but he is probably some time off yet, if ever
He has a few handy tools, but he also has a heap of deficiencies
If your tall and skinny he dont like.
With talls over 200cm you have to be prepared to put in the time. 23 to 24. Than hit there prime at 26.
This is exactly why ellite talls are the most valuable component to a team. You can trade for fringe ones and hope they come good. Weid and Wight for example. But its extreemly difficult to trade for ellite talls unless your that cheeting scum of a club geelong.
You admit that you were a bit harsh on him, then continue to be harsh on him.
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This is so very wrong.
- we’re trying to win the game. game time split depends on which ruck is doing better on the day against the opposition rucks.
- playing 90+% VFL and getting some AFL exposure is exactly what he needs to hasten his development as it allows him to understand the difference in level, & inform & motivate him to work harder. VFL rucking is also less physical stress on a yet to fully mature young player.
- selection integrity matters. picking the better players matter. the mantra of ‘play the kids’ rewards substandard performance if there are better players on the list, and is only a consideration when finals are out of the question.
- There are numerous options for 2nd ruck in 2024. Currently it’s Flip’s position for someone else to rise up and take.
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Which part of what i said do you not agree with? Hes not slow, he’s some time off it, or he has deficiencies?
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I agree he looks slow at times, but he is seriously quick -
He blitzed the 20-metre sprint in the NAB League Fitness Testing Day, clocking up a 2.91-second 20-metre sprint, which for a 202cm player is remarkable
I think the physicality of playing ruck slows him down, and will do until he physically matures.
His attributes will be tap work, landing on his feet and engaging in the clearance, and linking up with the mids around the ground.
But we won’t see this regularly until 2025 or so.
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I disagree with this part. We won’t know what he is capable of until he has played 50 games or so. That is the conventional wisdom for judging the development point for young rucks, although some will take longer and some will be quicker. You are writing him off after 8 games. The sample size is too small, far too small.
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Did you actually read what I wrote? Yes we are trying to win the game & having a player used one dimensionally & spending most of the game on the bench hinders our ability to win the game. Bryan actually got more hitouts per minute than any of the other ruckmen so the notion that he didn’t perform at all doesn’t hold up - he was more productive in 34% gametime than Weid was in 82%. I don’t think it was effective gameday management to use Bryan so sparsely yet keep worse performing players on the ground.
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How exactly can playing 90+% VFL & some AFL exposure be exactly what he needs if he clearly can’t do both at the same time? What I’m saying is that at this point of his career, I believe 90% at VFL level is better for his development than very limited time even within a senior game. Its not like we gave him a full half the game to see what he could do, he got very limited time to show anything. Again I don’t think that’s ideal for a young player.
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Yes selection integrity matters & picking a player for only 34% gametime I believe goes against that integrity. I’m not saying play him just because he’s a kid, I’m saying if you’re going to select him on merit then at least give him a decent crack at it. IF he’d stunk it up & not got a touch for 30 minutes then sub him out then & there but he spent more time on the bench than the ground even before being subbed. I think that is confidence depleting & again I believe a selection error.
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Who exactly do you imagine are the numerous options? Yes Flip is currently the second ruckman when Draper is available but he is a short term fill in at best. He may or may not even play next year (had to be talked out of retirement for this year) & we have to either surpass him from the current list that only has 1 other listed ruckman that’s played a senior game (Bryan) or trade in another ready made ruckman to replace him.
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You said split 50/50 with Flip, but in the Freo game Flip was playing very well and giving us a better chance of winning. You are ignoring that playing in the VFL with some AFL exposure is an ideal development path for a very young ruck. You just repeat yourself - his exposure wasn’t decent because because I said so…and Weid is no good. Actually watch the game, Weid was involved in goal scoring chains as a forward & Bryan is struggling to impact forward at this stage.
Flip will continue if his form warrants it. We might use a tall forward as a 2nd ruck. We might trade in a mature ruck. There are numerous possibilities.
You will just dig in and argue until you are red in the face so by all means have the final say.
Bigger problem is that 2MP is a very capable ruck/forward and we saw on the weekend that rucking can bring him into the game when things aren’t working up front.
I don’t see any value in playing two rucks when we’ve got 2MP in the team
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I said that a 50/50 split of the ruck duties should be the minimum planning if we’re going to play him in the seniors - that OR a full game in the VFL. Thats what I believe is best for his development & for winning games of football. Having a player spend so much time on the bench hindered our rotations & impacted our performance. If the coaches believed he was being that ineffective, he should have been subbed earlier.
Look if you honestly believe Flip was playing very well & Weid was an effective forward then you simply have really poor judgement. Maybe you should actually watch the game & get a clue. Bryan getting more game time may or may not have given us a better chance of winning than having Flip shoulder 75% of the ruck duties but again I don’t think having Bryan spend most of the game on the bench gave us any value towards winning at all or helped his development.
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“Nick Bryan is too good for the VFL,” Scott said.
“He’s a really dominant player at that level. We’re really keen to get him into the side. Nick is holding up his end of the bargain, it’s just the balance of our side that we need to think about.”
Easy fix Scott - Phillips out, Bryan in.
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He’s not saying Bryan is better than Phillips. Just that Bryan is too good for VFL.
He also noted that it’s a big step up to AFL level (given the size/experience/quality of rucks he’d be up against) of which Phillips can compete on his day against but is often beaten by. Bryan would be belted by still presently, as he was versus Witts in preseason
Will we play two rucks again in season now 2MP back is the question.
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FCS Brad, then what are you doing? pick him.
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There is an alternative course of action. Flip stays in, playing in the forward line in place of Weed. At present he is providing more of a contest, and is a better marking option. At ground level there would be little difference between them. We could then play Bryan in the ruck or someone else.
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Just had a look at some data…
Flip was first ruck more the two weeks before the bye. And the third week beforehand, Bryan went to more ruck hitouts (against West Coast).
It’s clear that whatever Drapes had was managed in the weeks leading up to the bye.
They did try Bryan more often and obviously didn’t like the results (whether that is hitouts, around the ground, who knows). Hence, they are leaning towards Flip for more ruck time than Bryan.
Are we looking at the same stats?
Sorry, fair chance I’ve just misunderstood your post, but I’m struggling to understand your point.
West Coast game
Draper - 41 contests, 8 hitouts
Bryan - 20 contests, 10 hitouts (subbed out)
North Game
Draper - 56 contests, 24 hitouts
Phillips - 40 contests, 25 hitouts
Carlton Game
Draper - 34 contests, 13 hitouts (subbed out)
Flip - 27 contests, 15 hitouts
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Oh…
Good point.
They went by hitouts won, not attendances.
So yes, Drapes was first ruck both times.
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