another thread? lol
another thread? lol
The gift that keeps on giving.
When do we get our draft picks back?
So in this case, Asada not only supposedly find evidence, they then hold the trial ?
That's like police being a judge on a case they put before the court.
The whole thing needs to be overhauled. If a drug or what not has the same biological structure or effect, put the ■■■■■■■ thing on the banned list, so people can be clear about not using it. Don't keep doing a half harsed job, and try and hang people after the fact based on a broken system.
So in this case, Asada not only supposedly
findsurpress evidence, they then hold the trial ?
Fixed.
Fark ASADA & WADA are a mess.
Instead of being negative and telling everyone what they can’t take (along with heavy disclaimers and catch-all stuff)…
They should just list the drugs players can take. Outside of that, they have to apply for the drug, get it tested and then be advised if it can be taken. In the meantime, they still to the drugs players can take.
Then if anyone is caught taking a non-approved drug, then go heavy on the punishments.
Sounds like “sorry sir but you were sitting in a car that has the potential to go over the speed limit so I’m issuing you a speeding ticket”.
Fark ASADA & WADA are a mess.
Instead of being negative and telling everyone what they can't take (along with heavy disclaimers and catch-all stuff)...
They should just list the drugs players can take. Outside of that, they have to apply for the drug, get it tested and then be advised if it can be taken. In the meantime, they still to the drugs players can take.
Then if anyone is caught taking a non-approved drug, then go heavy on the punishments.
Problem is it is easier to get convictions with the current system. They need people accidentally taking things in drinks etc to show they have a purpose.
An update from Inside Athletics. Looks like another Ahmed Saad style ban for stimulants.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are always two sides to every story.
Matt Davies' heartfelt statement published yesterday regarding his two year doping ban has created significant comment within the sporting and athletics community.
Among the most prominent, former ASADA CEO Richard Ings commented on Twitter that Davies 'needs very switched on defense lawyers. A blow torch needs to be held to ASADA which appears lacking in this case.'
And while Davies' explanation of the procedures leading to his ban leaves many unanswered questions of ASADA, there does not appear to be any disagreement that Davies tested positive to two substances: N, alpha-diethyl-Benzeneethanamine and 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine.
The two substances, which do not specifically appear on the WADA list of banned substances, have similar chemical and biological effects as amphetamines and are classified as Category 6b stimulants that are prohibited in competition.
Generally, stimulants act directly on the central nervous system to speed up parts of the brain and body. They can increase alertness and reduce fatigue in athletes.
Four other Australian athletes - reserve grade rugby league player Troy Errington, swimmer Callum Timms, bodybuilder Debbie Keen and powerlifter Matthew Middleton - have tested positive to the same substances. Like Davies, all received two year bans.
It is understood a number of the cases have been inadvertent use linked to the consumption of a supplement.
Among others, the popular pre-workout product Craze was found to contain both substances in tests conducted in Australia, Sweden and the USA.
Under the WADA code athletes are strictly liable for any substances they ingest and athletes are routinely warned of the dangers of using supplements.
Athletics Australia has recently flagged moves to ban athletes from using supplements. Although there would be no way for AA to monitor such usage, the moves are understood to be implemented for dual reasons: preventing similar circumstances as Davies' ban, and for the long term health of athletes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the FAQ on the "CRAZE" supplement website.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<strong>The label states “This product may contain ingredients banned by certain organizations.†What does this mean exactly?</strong>
Different testing organizations and governing bodies test for differing banned substances, and their lists of banned substances changes frequently. It would be impractical for us to attempt to keep on top of all of these lists and amend the Craze® warning label appropriately and in a timely manner. Therefore, as noted in the question above, we recommend that you check with your governing body prior to using Craze® or any other dietary supplement. If they reply with an ambiguous response, or do not cleanly state that the product is acceptable under their testing guidelines, we recommend that you DO NOT use the product.
Amy Eichner, special adviser on drugs and supplements at the United States Anti-Doping Agency, has been quoted saying that “The only way for an athlete to completely eliminate the risks associated with dietary supplements is to avoid dietary supplement use altogether.†We agree with this stance, and think it should also apply to non-athletes that are tested for employment and other reasons. If you have any doubt about whether you can use Craze® and maintain employment, a scholarship or a sporting contract etc, we recommend that you DO NOT use the product
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Perhaps he should have read the label on the stuff he was putting into his body.
Huh, I don’t get this.
The two substances don’t appear on any WADA list but are still banned. WTF ??
How can you know it is banned if it is not on the list?
If it's not on the list, then it is up to you to work out if it fits into a catch all clause.Huh, I don't get this.
The two substances don't appear on any WADA list but are still banned. WTF ??
How can you know it is banned if it is not on the list?
To do that you'd need...
Wait for it...
A drug dungeon.
Running some form of pharmacologically experimental environment.
How else are you supposed to know if they don't advise you!
Huh, I don't get this.
The two substances don't appear on any WADA list but are still banned. WTF ??
How can you know it is banned if it is not on the list?
I'm assuming this is so an athlete can't cheat the system by using a new growth compound or stimulant that hasn't made the ban list yet. Look at the recent increase in synthetic recreational drugs as an example of the laws failing to keep up with the trends in chemistry.
The moral of the story is that if you are an athlete and want to take a substance that is not listed, then get approval for it or don't take it. Earth moving contractors have "Dial before you dig". Perhaps athletes should use "Dial before you swig"
Here's the ingredient list for "Craze".
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 250mg 417% Kinesis® Proprietary Blend: 4,580 mg * Creatine Monohydrate, Trimethylglycine (Betaine Anhydrous), L-Citrulline, Dendrobex® (Dendrobium Extract) (stem) (concentrated for alkaloid content including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Citramine® (Citrus reticulata extract) (fruit) (Concentrated for N-Methyltyramine content), Caffeine anhydrous
Besides Vitamin C and Caffeine how many substances do you recognise?
If you were a professional athlete, would you feel comfortable ingesting this without checking?
At the risk of repeating myself and getting growled at, the whole drugs in sport battle is being fought on entirely the wrong front. The previous head of WADA, ( before Mr Fahey) admitted that they not only had no chance of making a difference, but that they were actually contributing to the problem.
In simplistic terms it’s akin to thinking its possible to win the war on illicit drugs by rounding up users and shooting them in the town square.
Here’s what’s wrong…
Let’s pretend that Mr Dank filled EFC players with every type of PED known and unknown to All the ADA’s whilst maintaining to all and sundry that everything was perfectly above board. Let’s also pretend that through the grace of god, one of these substances was actually detected in a test.
So player X gets a 2 year ban. Unfair but them’s the rules.
What happens to Mr Dank who no longer works for the club but has taken up a lucrative consultancy in Country Z.
Nothing.
Once again, in simplistic terms, they are targeting the wrong people. It’s costing a considerable fortune to make no difference at all because we all know how clean cycling is now that the bad Lance Armstrong is no longer allowed to play…don’t we?
*No disrespect meant to Mr Dank, or cycling, was simply trying to illustrate a point by using the familiar.
Huh, I don't get this.
The two substances don't appear on any WADA list but are still banned. WTF ??
How can you know it is banned if it is not on the list?I'm assuming this is so an athlete can't cheat the system by using a new growth compound or stimulant that hasn't made the ban list yet. Look at the recent increase in synthetic recreational drugs as an example of the laws failing to keep up with the trends in chemistry.
The moral of the story is that if you are an athlete and want to take a substance that is not listed, then get approval for it or don't take it. Earth moving contractors have "Dial before you dig". Perhaps athletes should use "Dial before you swig"
Here's the ingredient list for "Craze".
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 250mg 417% Kinesis® Proprietary Blend: 4,580 mg * Creatine Monohydrate, Trimethylglycine (Betaine Anhydrous), L-Citrulline, Dendrobex® (Dendrobium Extract) (stem) (concentrated for alkaloid content including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Citramine® (Citrus reticulata extract) (fruit) (Concentrated for N-Methyltyramine content), Caffeine anhydrous
Besides Vitamin C and Caffeine how many substances do you recognise?
If you were a professional athlete, would you feel comfortable ingesting this without checking?
I also don't see these two compounds listed, (N, alpha-diethyl-Benzeneethanamine and 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine). So how exactly after reading the ingredients list, and cross referencing said list with WADA/ASADA website, neither of which list either tested substance, does an athlete then determine that the product shouldn't be consumed? This is a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't, the classic Catch 22. How can any athlete possibly remain within the rules of WADA? To satisfy the stringent requirements of the drug enforcement bodies, an athlete would literally have to test every piece of food or liquid before the consume it, because how do they know what that piece of meat or fruit, or that can of soft drink or juice has been treated with?
The rules as the stand right now are too prescriptive to be workable. Those at the forefront of cheating, will never be found out, because they are using drugs and substances that the authorities know nothing about, therefore can't test for. Those that do get caught are invariably those who have genuinely tried to do the right thing, but end up running foul of the byzantine anti doping code. There was an earlier post that said that a former head of one of the anti-doping organisations had conceded that the system doesn't work, and that a new approach needed to be taken. They suggestion of simply applying minimum and maximum levels for substances such as testosterone etc. would be an infinitely preferable method, and anyone falling outside those norms well, prove the exception or suffer the consequences. To a degree they are doing this with their blood passports, looking to see any significant variations, but not everyone is using them and their accuracy and efficacy really hasn't been fully determined yet.
Amy Eichner, special adviser on drugs and supplements at the United States Anti-Doping Agency, has been quoted saying that “The only way for an athlete to completely eliminate the risks associated with dietary supplements is to avoid dietary supplement use altogether.†We agree with this stance, and think it should also apply to non-athletes that are tested for employment and other reasons. If you have any doubt about whether you can use Craze® and maintain employment, a scholarship or a sporting contract etc, we recommend that you DO NOT use the product
What the hell? Lucky I don't take Swisse.
Blood passport is the next step.I also don't see these two compounds listed, (N, alpha-diethyl-Benzeneethanamine and 1-Phenylbutan-2-amine). So how exactly after reading the ingredients list, and cross referencing said list with WADA/ASADA website, neither of which list either tested substance, does an athlete then determine that the product shouldn't be consumed? This is a case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't, the classic Catch 22. How can any athlete possibly remain within the rules of WADA? To satisfy the stringent requirements of the drug enforcement bodies, an athlete would literally have to test every piece of food or liquid before the consume it, because how do they know what that piece of meat or fruit, or that can of soft drink or juice has been treated with?
I'm assuming this is so an athlete can't cheat the system by using a new growth compound or stimulant that hasn't made the ban list yet. Look at the recent increase in synthetic recreational drugs as an example of the laws failing to keep up with the trends in chemistry.
Huh, I don't get this.
The two substances don't appear on any WADA list but are still banned. WTF ??
How can you know it is banned if it is not on the list?
The moral of the story is that if you are an athlete and want to take a substance that is not listed, then get approval for it or don't take it. Earth moving contractors have "Dial before you dig". Perhaps athletes should use "Dial before you swig"
Here's the ingredient list for "Craze".
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 250mg 417% Kinesis® Proprietary Blend: 4,580 mg * Creatine Monohydrate, Trimethylglycine (Betaine Anhydrous), L-Citrulline, Dendrobex® (Dendrobium Extract) (stem) (concentrated for alkaloid content including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N,N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, and N,N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Citramine® (Citrus reticulata extract) (fruit) (Concentrated for N-Methyltyramine content), Caffeine anhydrous
Besides Vitamin C and Caffeine how many substances do you recognise?
If you were a professional athlete, would you feel comfortable ingesting this without checking?
The rules as the stand right now are too prescriptive to be workable. Those at the forefront of cheating, will never be found out, because they are using drugs and substances that the authorities know nothing about, therefore can't test for. Those that do get caught are invariably those who have genuinely tried to do the right thing, but end up running foul of the byzantine anti doping code. There was an earlier post that said that a former head of one of the anti-doping organisations had conceded that the system doesn't work, and that a new approach needed to be taken. They suggestion of simply applying minimum and maximum levels for substances such as testosterone etc. would be an infinitely preferable method, and anyone falling outside those norms well, prove the exception or suffer the consequences. To a degree they are doing this with their blood passports, looking to see any significant variations, but not everyone is using them and their accuracy and efficacy really hasn't been fully determined yet.
A hell of a lot of these substances are based on messing around with or synthesizing hormones.
ASADA and the AFL both need a comprehensive review.
Essendon although not guilty of substance abuse, are guilty of neglect and the hiring of Dank.
Alot of water still to come under this bridge yet. Only way to open the flood gates is to perform on field, although hard, we did it in 2013 and need to continue moment into next year in the face of more adversity.
Cmon bombers " Believe ", I do.
the afl hired dank for the gold coast before he came to us...
Good to see ASADA finally found someone to pick up the phone anyway. Guy’s had his life on hold for 18 months but a journo seems to have gotten a reply within a week.
So that’s OK.
Gotta love how the Australian reports this and all the other papers just sit back and laugh, they can never hit the nail on the head.
I don't think N, alpha-diethyl-Benzeneethanamine has ever been tested on humans. I remember reading (from USA Today iirc), that said substance has never been tested on a human, and that the maker of Craze has some sort of criminal past. Craze was a more powerful pre-workout than supplements with DMAA (banned substance), even though its substances may not be explicitly banned like DMAA, it's better to be safe than sorry and to avoid it.