Australian Politics, Mark II

I too live in the US. Cycle is eerily similar to 2016’s upsets of Trump and Brexit:

  • Progressive politicians and pollsters create self-reinforcing but flawed and vacuous sense of superiority by assuming the progressive voters - typically located in major cities, where polling is concentrated - represent the opinions of the entire country.
  • Progressives are stunned to realize their worldview and priorities aren’t necessarily shared outside of their own echo chambers, and consequently bungle a near-unlosable election;
  • Progressives spend the next few years running around espousing tinfoil hat theories as to why they lost; potentially illuminating introspection is avoided at all costs.
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The one BIG caveat is that in the US less than 55% voted and the candidate that won the popular vote by 3M votes lost the election due to 77k votes in 3 states.

There are learnings but dunking on progressives is low on the list.

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I live in a seat where pretty much everyone is worried about water. Everyone. They overwhelmingly voted conservative. We just don’t understand what we’re doing with votes. We will continue to complain that nobody is helping the situation and that politicians are screwing us though. Make no mistake. Might get taxed though. Hey everyone, I hope you’re stashing your franking credits away safely.

I think the worst thing is that I’m raising a very astute child into this world and she is interested in this now being ten years old. I’m not sure what to tell her. Should I point her towards Joe Hockey’s advise? Get richer parents? Maybe I could comfort her with stories about how rich people get their kids scholarships.

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Not dunking on anybody, commenting on the remarkable similarities. Reading the commentary here, apparently Liberal voters are - by and large - retarded, backward, degenerates with a burning desire to destroy the country, aided and abetted by their evil overlord, Rupert Murdoch? Same childish and immature nonsense i heard for months post Trump.

Anyway. My theory is, the generally declining relevance of politics (and absolute, barrel-scraping, all-time low of intellect and quality of representatives) is harmful to the progressive cause - a progressive agenda, generally, inherently involves the electorate acquiescing that its representatives have more (not less) direct intervention in our lives. For people to want elected representatives to have more rather than less direct impact on their lives, you want to entrust the prosecution of that agenda to representatives of real gravitas, vision and intellect. It’s no wonder, then, seeing the barrel-scraping, abhorrent mediocrity on both sides of the aisle, that - when faced with a choice between two turd sandwiches - people will pick the turd sandwich that promises to be less rather than more involved in our day-to-day lives.

Just thinking aloud. I don’t really care, but i do find watching a progressive dummy-spit to be nearly as enjoyable as Collingwood losing the GF by a kick.

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Not about a dummy spit at all for me

I have known what drives most Voters since 1975.

Labor had a progressive policy agenda which was very superior to the LNP. Fear campaigns work and so you will get what you deserve.

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Ok here it is

Labor’s Plan For Making Multinationals Pay Their Fair Share - I agree with this policy (and I believe this has support form the Liberals. This will make a material difference to the budget, a vote winner and getting the likes of Apple etc to pay their share. This should of been a key item, not hidden.

Labor’s Banking Fairness Fund - Labor require 9 biggest banks to contribute, $160 million to a Banking Fairness Fund. Stupid policy, the banking sector all ready pay their income, payroll and other local taxes. If you look at the make up of corporate tax collection, banking is key contributor. This policy would turn off the business vote.

Reforming Dividend Imputation -Firstly they called this a ‘cash refund’. Nope as a shareholder and part owner of said company, you get a credit for the tax that was paid on behalf of that income by the company. That dividend is then assessed at shareholder level (and the dividend is then grossed up to income the imputation credit and assessed on tax return).

Firstly on this- The $8 billion on this - is a lie. For the ‘cashed up pensioners with millions in their fund’ - they will simply move said investments into other asset classes, bonds/ETFs/overseas companies. Do they care? Nope oh and because they are in pension phase no capital gains tax and also the Australian economy and ASX - well now there is a capital flight to other assets/overseas assets. So what happens when you short sell at once?

So who gets caught up in this? Small business owners operating a PTY LTD and low to medium income owners

Tom is 25, owns some CBA shares and works part-time whilst at TAFE. Currently his taxable income is $30,000 per year and receives $500 in franking credits, under that proposal he would lose those credits as his marginal effective tax rate is 7.5% and the franking credits result in a yearly refund

This was really poorly worded and sold and impact low-to-medium income earners, the millionaire boomers would adjust.

This turned off accountants/financial advisers/lawyers/boomers across the board. This was also seen as a free kick to industry (union) superfunds.

Reforming Negative Gearing and Capital Gains Tax Arrangements - Horrible policy, underestimated how many Australians own 1 investment property (nurses, teachers etc) and the future impact that would have on their investment property value

This was drawn up and the hight of the property boom, surely someone from the party would of seen

  1. It was the top of the housing market (and like a market they move in cycles)
  2. The credit slowdown from 2015 was going to have a flow-on impact on future investment growth

Fast-forward and Melbourne and Sydney (let’s be honest this was pushed together in response to the strong housing markets in those two citites) are down 15% - this policy does not have the same sting

Negative gearing

This policy was to limit towards new buildings only. So quickly you really only negatively gear a property if you anticipate future capital growth. That strikes out new apartments as apartments are seen as cash flow positive and general offer limited capital growth.

Those as the policy stands, you could only negative gear new HOUSE AND LAND builds. The EXACT property that first home buyers looking to purchase, so now you have an inflated property (with a price set by a developer and not market) that has investors and first home buyers competing. It would turn into a new car transaction as developers would inflate the price (and instant depreciation on hand over of keys). The investor would then not be able to re-sell into the same market (as it becomes old and the future buyer cannot negatively gear)

It was also seen as a free kick to developers and unions.

Ticking off RE Agents, brokers, investors, and boomers

Capital Gains Tax

This was going to be grandfathered, to existing properties would still get the full discount - so no real impact on the current boomers - but once those properties float down to the next generation the millennials, cop this policy.

This also applies to shares (mid-term traders) and those buying and selling businesses. Last point really important.

Again financial institutions, business, accountants, bankers, lawyers, boomers, millennial voters.

Deduction Cap For Managing Tax Affairs - $3k deduction for cost, of managing tax affairs D10 label, this was stupid policy from Labor. This includes cost of preparing tax return, deduction of any ATO interest expense and also cost of defending yourself against the ATO.

This was just stupid stupid policy

Rattled the cage of all accountants and their clients

As I said weeks ago (and got shouted down) these poor policies would get the people voting. I didn’t expect that to happen to this extent. But speaking with alot of the above categories, I kept hearing the same response - terrified of Labors plan of class warfare and more and more taxes. Of course, these conversations didn’t play out in the media. These people just took the time to understand the personal and business impact and vote for their personal future.

But

You know what will make the other side feel better. Just call those people biggots, racist, homophones, backwards - every name under the sun (examples in this thread)

So my question is, are the pollsters this wrong? Similar to the UK and the US or is the media picking and reporting on the data that follows their opinion?

I jumped onto twitter earlier for a read (and the responses didn’t disappoint) and journalists from the ABC, Guardian, 7, 10, Sydney morning - you could TASTE their disappointment. I don’t care if they have an opinion, but don’t dress it up as facts when reporting.

I watched The Drum post-election, it was a great show - but all of them were on the LEFT. Seriously where was the perspective in reporting and NONE of them mention my above analysis. Seriously, they got blindsided by this, because they didn’t take the time to understand the issues that motivated the people to vote.

This is like ground hog day. Go back to the media in the lead up to SSM vote. It was the white liberal Christian vote that was going push for a No, that was the media narrative. But the final result was FAR from that.

I will finish on this. Bill was never electable, even his departure speech was a reminder of why he didn’t get int.

But Chris Bowen - when he said ‘if you don’t like the policy, you don’t have to vote for us’

That was the death knock

I also wonder who the media will blame this week?

Clive? Rupert? SMS? Russia? China? The Greens? - we should do a poll

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Her interests are China before Australia.

Shorten, Gillard, Rudd? Find a leader ALP.

And it aint Albo. Personable enough bloke, … as was Beasley.

This is not the Leader they are looking for.

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The franking credit policy was LAZY.

It’s a valid question to ask why extremely wealthy people can access a flat 15% tax rate inside super (or lower)…in fact, I increasingly feel that there should be a progressive tax rate inside super, just at a flatter trajectory than personal tax rates…but the ALP didn’t start this debate, they just tried to cut corners and introduce a very basic policy that could snap both low income and high income recipients to a 30% minimum tax rate.

The policy was going to be genuinely UNFAIR to some low income people, because it was a short cut.

When your job is to come up with sensible policy, you need to put in a bit more effort than this, and target the changes accurately.

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That is a distortion.

But it doesn’t farking matter at all, all Labor policy is no out of the window Bill is gone and any new Leader will take Labor to the Right, as it is only way morons like you will vote for them. The Country is farked and I am leaving, taking jobs and export income.

But I will be OK and fark everyone else.

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Does this mean that Hawthorn won’t get their 20 million for the Dingley facility?

Wow, a real shame

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Devastated.

I’m a scientist, and I recently moved to Trump’s America to find work. Looks like I won’t be coming back any time soon.

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Dutton will probably knife Morrison in the next 12 months, but who give a f*ck… the population clearly don’t.

Very interesting that all of Clive Palmers advertisement spending couldn’t get his party a seat, but has gone a long way to getting LNP back into parliament.

Nah, ScoMo is as safe as houses. One of the great Election wins of all time. Just goes to show a silent majority will always beat a vocal minority.

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The vocal minority was Clive Palmer. One person spent $80 million.

The silent majority backed him.

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Very good analysis.

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It’s not weird. But I think there’s a side factor tied to this, Wim, that Labor don’t seem to have fully realised and it’s cost them. Middle Australia should have switched to Labor in swarms, but even in Vic it didn’t happen. Far from it. They need to ask why.

I’d be ignoring QLD. That can be explained. It was the failure elsewhere that is key. Only one seat gained in Vic is astonishing.

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I still can’t comprehend how the electorate didn’t dump on this government from a great height. Easily the worst government I’ve lived under, no clear vision for the future and pretty light on for talent.

The feeling I had was that this would be the end of the LNP as we know it.

Nek Minnit Scomo is doing a victory lap!

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