Ben Roberts-Smith Laptop Repair Service

[Vegan]

@Lifetime_ban

Even Justice Besanko stopped short of straight out calling him a war criminal.

This statement has no weight.

The court’s role and limits meant it was not appropriate or necessary to apply the formal label “war criminal” in a civil defamation case.

[Esteban]

@Humble_Minion

I find this one of the more disturbing posts in the thread. I can certainly understand people taking the position that the allegations might have been fabricated, for some reason I don’t entirely understand, but this is coming perilously close to endorsement. “Yeah, he did these murders, here’s why it was ok.”

I had this exact conversation with a friend who said BRS was given the job to track down those involved with the embedded Taliban soldier killing (I think ) 5 Australian soldiers. Apparently that was justification. Yet if I asked him if the Japanese and Germans committed similar acts during world war 2, would he call them war crimes, I think I would probably get a different answer.

[Vegan]

@Bacchusfox

BRS did not hide he was planning a trip to Europe with his family, terming it fleeing to Spain is a further fabrication of evidence.

According to the ABC article:

“The statement also said the veteran had recently vacated rented accommodation in Queensland.”

Probably just a case of strange happenstance.

[Houli_Dooli]

The witnesses for the cliff one, was apparently 500m away and can barely see. Other people said it didn’t happen.
including higher ranking officers.

[Humble_Minion]

High ranking officers who a) weren’t there, and b) would also be in the legal ■■■■ if war crimes were committed by soldiers under their command and they turned a blind eye. If the details of this one are too much up for debate and the testimony too fuzzy, what about the one where BRS is accused of pressuring a newly-arrived soldier into killing a bound captive as a ‘blooding’ ritual, where the actual shooter is testifying?

Regardless, that’s beside the point. Can we at least agree that, as a matter of principle and law, executing unarmed and helpless prisoners is both wrong and illegal?

[Benny40]

BRS lost a civil case judged on the balance of probability standard. He’s currently facing charges from a prosecution that believe they have a beyond reasonable doubt case to present to the court. DPP don’t take a case to court because “YOLO let’s see what happens”.

He’s innocent until proven guilty, but I can’t imagine any of this playing out if the accusations were completely baseless.

[Lawry]

@Bacchusfox

Why can’t you just let justice run its course ?

That’s right. However There are doubts BRS will be able to have a fair trial given all the publicity. It’s a commonwealth case and only needs one juror out of 12 to say not guilty and he is free. Based on the evidence I’ve read about I’d say the prosecution has a very difficult case to make /win and convince 12 jurors unanimously.

[sausageroll]

@Bacchusfox

@sausageroll

It’s the testimony of 20 of his team mates.

Allegedly over 400 were interviewed and 21 claimed Roberts killed or aided killing others. All were offered immunity for this. Allegedly of the 400 many claimed the stories were fabricated and false, but their evidence was not used in the enquiry.

@sausageroll

There’s a reason he was trying to flee to Spain.

BRS did not hide he was planning a trip to Europe with his family, terming it fleeing to Spain is a further fabrication of evidence.

Why can’t you just let justice run its course ?

I’m just going of the Fairfax reports he had enquired about visas for his girlfriend, packed up his flat and was about to flee the country.

Like I said he has had an absolute fortune backing him in the civil courts and was still found probable of the crimes he’s been alleged.

of course you can say innocent until proven guilty.

But it’s been proven in court it’s not defamatory to allege he committed them.

[Bacchusfox]

Do you really think if he was going to “flee” that he would use commercial flights and go to a country that has an extradition treaty with us.

Let the court decide if the prosecution can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[barry_day]

Lets just say he was getting ahead of the game.
He would have had more than an inkling what was coming. He decided to get out before the doors were shut, which forced the AFP’s hand.

[Toast]

@Bacchusfox

Do you really think if he was going to “flee” that he would use commercial flights and go to a country that has an extradition treaty with us.

same guy that destroyed laptops in his backyard and Barbara Streisanded himself in front of the nation

[bobo]

@Bacchusfox

@sausageroll

It’s the testimony of 20 of his team mates.

Allegedly over 400 were interviewed and 21 claimed Roberts killed or aided killing others.

21! That seems like a lot.

I legitimately did not know it was so high.

[sausageroll]

@Bacchusfox

Do you really think if he was going to “flee” that he would use commercial flights and go to a country that has an extradition treaty with us.

Let the court decide if the prosecution can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Probably not. But it is harder to try someone whose living overseas.

I wouldn’t blame him for wanting to start a new life overseas either, criminal charges or not.

He wasn’t looking to go to Spain for a short holiday.

[Bacchusfox]

Allegedly as these 21 were given immunity from any of these and associated crimes, there is suggestion that it was an opportunity to clean their slates. And all this testimony was given for the Enquiry not in a Court. So it may be interesting to see how it holds up under cross examination.

Few ADF people that my Son knows are indifferent to this case. Either guilty or not guilty, with a leaning towards not guilty. Have not heard any call of innocent.

[dingus]

@Lifetime_ban

@barry_day

Not convicted to the criminal standard, but found by a court, in a civil trial, a war criminal.
We can call him a war criminal and there’s nothing he can do about because a truth defense has found so.

I don’t like this.

As an Essendon fan, whenever you discuss one of the suspended players do you call them drug cheat so and so, because they were found guilty in a civil court (The Swiss Federal Tribunal upheld the CAS decision arrived at on the balance of probabilities)? Or do you consider that the balance of probabilities call was a bullshit decision to ruin the reputations of a bunch of young men that did nothing wrong based on nothing more than the vibe. In my opinion, if you won’t do it for the Essendon players, you shouldn’t do it for Ben Roberts-Smith.

Justice Anthony Besanko adjudicated on the basis of balance of probabilities that it was “substantially” true. But this is only one persons opinion and just remember his split could have been as little as 49.9 defamation / 50.1 not defamation. Another justice may have delivered a different verdict. Just remember, 9 and McKenzie didn’t have to prove guilt, the burden of proof of defamation was on BRS as the plaintiff. Being unable to prove defamation is a very different thing to proving guilt.

As I have said repeatedly, I will await the outcome of a jury trial to determine his guilt or otherwise. Then if he is found guilty by twelve persons hearing all the evidence, and only then, in my opinion should he be labelled a war criminal. Until then, he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

Except for all those war crimes he done

[Bacchusfox]

Allegedly

[bobo]

@Bacchusfox

Allegedly as these 21 were given immunity from any of these and associated crimes, there is suggestion that it was an opportunity to clean their slates. And all this testimony was given for the Enquiry not in a Court. So it may be interesting to see how it holds up under cross examination.

Few ADF people that my Son knows are indifferent to this case. Either guilty or not guilty, with a leaning towards not guilty. Have not heard any call of innocent.

So the crimes are thought to have happened then?

[dingus]

@Bacchusfox

Allegedly

Provenly

[Tezza_the_King]

it’s just insane how many people and it’s also hard to not realise it’s all right and far right that have jumped on hard behind him, regardless and despite the fact that people who were there at these alleged crimes are the ones that have testified against him in a civil case , probably knowing full well this these charges might follow .

it’s not just hearsay or circumstantial evidence we are taking about . we are talking about eye witness evidence . if more than one person who was there testifies against him , and it stands up under cross examination , it’s very hard to see how a jury could not find that compelling.

of course it doesn’t mean he’s automatically guilty but it’s going to make it very hard for him if these witnesses stand firm in what they have already said in a civil court

[Mendozaaaa]

Maybe he wanted to flee to España to watch Geulfi and the like running around the beach shirtless in September?