Somethings not working about clearances. Saints seemed to have a couple hanging back from the pack many times, 2-3 of our players in there and when handball ball came out we were out manned.
Clear as Fark on FOXTEL.
I agree.
I’d add that it’s not just clearances, but all over the ground. Even our stellar defence had times where they didn’t know who was doing what and inexplicably let their opponents goal-side.
It’d be silly to assume the coaches aren’t noticing, so I reckon we have to accept we’re still a work in progress.
We have had five head coaches in nine seasons…
Who’s the 5th?
STG, Knighta, Hird, Bomber…
Unless you count Hird’s 2nd coming as a different guy, which would be a heresy.
Are you counting Goodwin for that one game at the end of 2013? That doesn’t count.
Think Bellchambers goes alright. Wish he would take more contested marks though.
Not sure what’s going on with Giles? Is mobile and loves going up forward and snagging 1 or 2. Worth a go will Bellchambers.
McKernan needs to be trailed in the firsts, hopefully some time soon. Is mobile and can kick goals.
Geez I thought it was poor form of Bellcho to get stuck into Melksham after he dropped that mark up on the HFF. Sure he wanted someone at his feet but Melksham was doing a good job blocking so that he had a 1 on 1 instead of a 2 on 1.
Throw the cheque book at Lobbe, if not just to pi$$ off Port.
Signed a 4 year deal last December. Not happening.
If we’re talking rucks, I’m happy to stick with Belcho. But if we were looking - the three “gettable” ones I reckon are:
Zac Clarke. Isn’t signing with Freo and is out of contract end of this year. Is he any good?
Ceglar. I’m not 100% sure, but I think he’s out of contract this year…
Leunberger. Hasn’t signed at Brisbane - but I’m not sure we’d want him. Injury prone.
What will 4 average rucks do that the 3 we already have won't do?
Weight of numbers?
Would still be shorter than Sandi.
Honestly though, (assuming Bellcho signs) I can’t think of a position we need to spend money on less than another out-and-out ruckman.
We need pace and inside mids and we need key positions and we need crumbers, and we need to get some youth on the list.
Get the feeling some of you would be happy to Wallace/Frawley the list, some of the suggestions I’ve seen (Gibbs? Leunberger? FFS!)
Maybe rookie a kid, but that would be as far as I’d go.
Agree. I’m not sure the ruck should be our priority at the moment. And I wasn’t suggesting bringing any of those players I mentioned in - merely that those would be what is in the market if we were to enter it. If we could get a Goldstein or Jacobs - then yep, WSPHU. Otherwise, forget it, develop what we’ve got. Ruckmen take longer etc etc. I assume Bellcho is spending heaps of time with Simon Madden?
Think Bellchambers goes alright. Wish he would take more contested marks though.
Not sure what’s going on with Giles? Is mobile and loves going up forward and snagging 1 or 2. Worth a go will Bellchambers.
McKernan needs to be trailed in the firsts, hopefully some time soon. Is mobile and can kick goals.
Geez I thought it was poor form of Bellcho to get stuck into Melksham after he dropped that mark up on the HFF. Sure he wanted someone at his feet but Melksham was doing a good job blocking so that he had a 1 on 1 instead of a 2 on 1.
Saw that & thought it showed more that Belly was pretty frustrated with himself, than Melk being at fault.
We are getting smashed out of the square every week. Obviously we have lost one of the best centre square rucks in the game but we need to find some answers.
For years we have looked to control the zone on the defensive side of the ball up and flick it back there to jobe but tbell seems completely unable to get on top of his man and tap it back to there. The ones he wins wins seem to go forward or to the side but to zones we are controlling.
Where to from here?
Where to from here ?
Setup according to the strengths and weaknesses of the people we have in the ruck at present.
Personal isnt the issue. Myers and hocking would change very little at present.
Yes they may block for the others etc, but if the ball isnt hit to where we have set up, or we set up as normal when a designated ruckman isnt rucking at the opposition hit it to their advantage it doesnt do ■■■■ to rectify the current issue.
Set up defensively and be side be side w8th you opponent, accept the xontest will be 50 40 and that if belly wins it we know where the bal should go. If he doesnt we are in a posiition to stop the opposition from just waltzing away from us.
Terrible. Giles is a back up ruckman only. We do have issues in the middle and are missing PR’s tap work. Shaun Mack’s work in the twos has been more forward than rucking. He is short for on-going ruck work too and better skills around the ground and despite all that, a rookie. Not a solution.
Simply, we have to do better work in the square. It is an intuitive finesse. Agree with other re Myers and Buddha.
I think peoples memory of Ryders tap work is significantly higher than his actual output was. I also think people are underestimating Belly’s potential. The first thing I noticed when he returned late last year was how many more clean taps he got than I was used to from Ryder. Once the mids start getting to the right spots and reading his work I think it will be a combo above what we say with Ryder last year. It’s no going to gel till the second half of the year.
I think belly is struggling with running out games and it’s effecting his tap work. But I also think he is improving each week.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
I think peoples memory of Ryders tap work is significantly higher than his actual output was. I also think people are underestimating Belly's potential. The first thing I noticed when he returned late last year was how many more clean taps he got than I was used to from Ryder. Once the mids start getting to the right spots and reading his work I think it will be a combo above what we say with Ryder last year. It's no going to gel till the second half of the year.
I think belly is struggling with running out games and it’s effecting his tap work. But I also think he is improving each week.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
Nup.
Might not have done much else (for 90% of his career) but his ability to direct a tap, and his understanding & combination with Jobe/Hepp/Hocking et al were absolutely unreal. Sandi’s a long way in front of anyone else going around, but Ryder was IMHO best after him, purely for taps to advantage.
I think Bellcho might well end up winning a lot more taps, and he’ll be much much better resting forward, but I doubt he’ll ever approach Ryder for % to advantage.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
I bet Giles and McKernan would be happy with one year contracts. Three year contracts for mature aged VFL players is crazy talk.
I think peoples memory of Ryders tap work is significantly higher than his actual output was. I also think people are underestimating Belly's potential. The first thing I noticed when he returned late last year was how many more clean taps he got than I was used to from Ryder. Once the mids start getting to the right spots and reading his work I think it will be a combo above what we say with Ryder last year. It's no going to gel till the second half of the year.
I think belly is struggling with running out games and it’s effecting his tap work. But I also think he is improving each week.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
Nup.
Might not have done much else (for 90% of his career) but his ability to direct a tap, and his understanding & combination with Jobe/Hepp/Hocking et al were absolutely unreal. Sandi’s a long way in front of anyone else going around, but Ryder was IMHO best after him, purely for taps to advantage.
I think Bellcho might well end up winning a lot more taps, and he’ll be much much better resting forward, but I doubt he’ll ever approach Ryder for % to advantage.
Interesting… I think there is a HO to advantage stat, might go try find it.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
I bet Giles and McKernan would be happy with one year contracts. Three year contracts for mature aged VFL players is crazy talk.
Giles already got more than one, Smack has potential and outside a kid or state leaguer were not going to get much soon. Maybe not three but definitely the next 1-2.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
I bet Giles and McKernan would be happy with one year contracts. Three year contracts for mature aged VFL players is crazy talk.
Giles already got more than one, Smack has potential and outside a kid or state leaguer were not going to get much soon. Maybe not three but definitely the next 1-2.
Bit early to talk contract extensions when they haven’t even played a game for the club at senior level. Giles in particular has modest VFL form, and is 27. Nobody wanted McKernan, so what’s the rush?
I think peoples memory of Ryders tap work is significantly higher than his actual output was. I also think people are underestimating Belly's potential. The first thing I noticed when he returned late last year was how many more clean taps he got than I was used to from Ryder. Once the mids start getting to the right spots and reading his work I think it will be a combo above what we say with Ryder last year. It's no going to gel till the second half of the year.
I think belly is struggling with running out games and it’s effecting his tap work. But I also think he is improving each week.
I like the backups we have in Giles and Smack, Giles is a direct replacement for Belly and Smack can play ruck or forward. I would be signing all three for 3 year contracts.
Nup.
Might not have done much else (for 90% of his career) but his ability to direct a tap, and his understanding & combination with Jobe/Hepp/Hocking et al were absolutely unreal. Sandi’s a long way in front of anyone else going around, but Ryder was IMHO best after him, purely for taps to advantage.
I think Bellcho might well end up winning a lot more taps, and he’ll be much much better resting forward, but I doubt he’ll ever approach Ryder for % to advantage.
Interesting… I think there is a HO to advantage stat, might go try find it.
l am with HAP on this one regardless of the strats. What the stats won’t tell you is the critical tapouts that Paddy got for us. There were plenty of taps to great advantage in games, that swung momentum our way, in other words taps that swung games. Too many to be called flukes. People want to call him Judas, but at such times l called him a genius.
