I’m not sure what Hawthorn did wrong in its investigation. Seems to be they are getting belted for asking questions that the AFL didn’t want answered. Going off at least what’s been corroborated by both parties individuals and club deserved to be sanctioned for historical failures. How the investigation has been handled by HFC is just noise.
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This is as welcome a development as it is unexpected. Usually the AFLPA just rubber stamps AFL policy, and has no criticism. This is decent proof that they are taking the issue seriously, giving their bosses at HQ a bit of a wake up call. The AFaiL has lagged behind on such a policy for a long time, and it has been left for too long to individual players, such as Long and Winmar, to lead the way.
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There is nothing independent if it’s in any affiliated with the AFL.
No, but if it had a structure with sufficient expertise, it could be more independent than a club in providing a confidential outreach resource for player human rights (including racial) complaints and to collate them, to identify systemic issues within a club or across clubs.
Maybe at a minimum it should do an annual report on human rights complaints by players.
Taking time out from Singapore posing as Shangri La?
Pretty brave language from marsh then - unless it’s staged.
We only just started to see how much of a grub he really is.
But in the AFL context he presided over some issues that had no impact beyond the individuals and clubs.
Systemic racism in at least two clubs
Systemic doping* at one club, and an entire team being sanctioned by an external party
Players and officials gambling on matches
It’s as though AFL leadership never held accountable.
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Wheels up, job done
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The other thing now it’s public, was Dimma the coach who spoke out.
These guys go public, Dimma resigns a week earlier
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Isn’t their whole culture built on taking cheap shots at us? From dermie to line in the sand to mitchell miming injections, rank cheap shots so their supporters following through is no surprise
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Probably you are right. They are still salty that after the debacle of 1983 we came back and got them 2 fold the following years.
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and let’s not mention the Sewell episode.
You forgot systematic drug use at West coast, Collingwood and Hawthorn.
Demetriou is a kent of the highest order. I worked for one of his training companies. I got the boot when I asked why I was signing off on qualifications for students I never taught
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The following are a few points of procedural clarification that may help to unpick how this has been so abysmally handled
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The internal investigation by Hawthorn seems to have first been about rebuilding connection with past players.
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Now It’s confirmed that Cyril is involved, it is clear why point 1 was important to the club.
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Investigation revealed more grevious information than the club was ready or able to receive.
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AFL is a sporting code, governed by articles of association. This is a very low level of “law” to apply to members and governing bodies.
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Procedural fairness and exercising of power under point 4 is determined by the content of the articles and the consent of the members.
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Employment law applies, but as we learnt from the Saga, individuals can give away their common law rights under the terms of the AFL contract, which is probably written to compound the effect of the articles of association.
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Hawthorn’s investigation uncovered concerns with ex-employees. Being ex-employees, there was no grounds for Hawthorn to act against the individuals as the employment relationship would be the only grounds the club could have used for action.
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Conversely, there is no compulsion for Clarkson, Burt and Fagan to engage even if Hawthorn put allegations. There would have had to be an existing employment relationship and conduct expectations in place for the allegations to be formed and put to them.
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The outcome of the above is that the victims had opened themselves up to reliving the trauma, but there was no grounds to pursue action against individuals.
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Appears that Hawthorn referred to AFL to action a response under their broader reach across clubs.
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AFL should have framed the allegations as having been put via the Hawthorn report, (ie from an association member club) and required Clarkson and Fagan to respond. Burt may have been out of reach given he was no longer in the AFL system.
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AFL stuffed up by overcooking their response to what could have been an initial stage of information gathering. (Sound familiar?) The victims decision to not participate meant that the process could no procede. The AFL initiated process needed allegations of misconduct to be put forward so it could actually commence.
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The AFL announcement last week was so deeply bad. They intentionally misdirected the understanding of the situation by saying that Clarkson and Fagan and Burt have no case to answer.
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This may have been a condition negotiated by their lawyers, but it intentionally allows the misunderstanding that they were exonerated.
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In actuality, they have “no case to answer” because the victims did not table allegations via the AFL process to investigate. Ie - no allegations in the process means none could be formally put, means “no case to answer”.
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Furthermore, the AFL “concluded” their process creating an impression that it was “completed”, but a more accurate description would have been “forced to abandon” their process. Perhaps an even better one would have been “suspend” their process.
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Tragically, the normal fan who doesnt have to interact wtih governance and/or employment issues will equate a lack of a finding to a finding of innocence.
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@#$% the AFL and its self engrandised privileged power abusing boys club.
Sorry for the long post, but reading the copies of vile social media posts above is really triggering, especially since the Saga abuses of power and process.
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I remember in 2019 when we boo’d after the siren on ANZAC day, to express our dissatisfaction with umpiring that cost us a win, but Buckley and the media chose to misinterpret that as ‘booing a champion’. The righteous indignation from all corners was palpable.
Where’s the righteous indignation for Cyril? He gave so much that was so special to this game. I hated the Hawks during their premiership era, but I loved watching Rioli win game after game off his own boot.
I have never seen anything in Cyril’s nature to suggest he’d make things up to try to hurt the club. On the other hand, I see plenty in Clarkson’s nature to suggest he’s an angry, entitled little man, quite capable of doing everything he’s been accused of.
Shame on Hawks supporters for belittling Rioli. He’s respected well outside their own 4 walls.
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It was a strange turn given that he spent the remainder of the post preaching temperance. We see how easy it is to generalise/discriminate. And while prejudice based on race and club affiliation are worlds apart, they still exist on the same spectrum and are similarly unthinking.
Truth be told, all supporter bases are probably comprised of very similar demographics. We doubled down during the saga, but over time have come to accept that the club made costly errors in employing untrustworthy and unscrupulous operators.
These hawks supporters have gone into self-preservation mode. It’s very difficult to change allegiance when you realise that your club has potentially behaved abhorrently. These are probably the internal struggles that are motivating these outspoken Hawks supporters.
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DIRECTED BY M. NIGHT SHYAMALAN
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I took it as ‘we don’t go to our clubs matches’.
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Hence the attacks on Cyril Rioli, which are going to get much worse before this issue is concluded. Rioli is to be commended for taking his stance, knowing in advance that he would cop this abuse, that takes guts, real guts, to stand up when you know things are wrong, but also knowing there will be massive blow back in your direction. All we can do is #standbycyril.
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Whatever comments we are seeing about Cyril on various platforms, you can sure as hell bet he is copping it ten times more and with more nastiness and venom in pm’ s from the burners.
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