Delistings and List Regeneration

Football Discussion Trade week Duursma head in
61
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

There are not many ‘rules’ that work across the board and for all situations. But I kinda like the one that goes “when you’ve earned your spot, you play…till then, improve”.

What you said above applied…ahm…10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today - for Fletch. Can you foresee the future?


No, I cannot see the future…I don’t get the point of your question either.

If we are to improve over the next few years, that improvement is not going to come from a 40 year old player.

Take the sentiment out of it and (imo) now is as good a time as any for Fletch to hang up the boots.

You don’t get the point of my question?
Ok, let me explain.
If you could see the future, say, 10 years ago, when people were calling for Fletch’s retirement, and we had young players in the 2’s, needing games…would you have retired him?

Maybe you would. Maybe you wouldn’t. Tell ya what though - nobody’s choice but his own. If anyone knows when it’s time for him to hang up the boots, it’s Fletch. Everyone at the club knows and agrees with that.

The problem then with your question is that I do not recall people discussing his demise 10 years ago.....but if they were, then I would have been on the side of those wanting to keep him.

Now, ten years have gone by, he’s 40, and whatever sentiment abounds, he is not getting any younger.

Are you old enough to remember the final year for Terry Daniher and Simon Madden…both played out the bulk of that year in the seconds…I don’t want that for Fletch…I really would like to see him get back into the team, retain his fitness and form for the remainder of the year and then retire while he still has a bit left in the tank.

Maybe not 10, but say 2007 odd we were rock bottom, he was over 30, and there was a view we needed to blood youngsters. There were some calls for him to be eased out.

While he’s best 22, I wouldn’t rule him out yet. 3rd tall isn’t a huge development need, we’ll have enough delistings, let him keep on going on one year contracts.

62
No way Gwilt should be delisted especially if Pears and Stein are gone. Oh and Fletch likely to retire too, we'd have no 3rd tall defenders.

He deserves a year’s extension.

If we have Hurley, Carlisle and Hooker down back we have the three best tall defenders in the league.

Daniher, McKernan and Langford are good developing tall forwards.

Bellchambers or Lobbe/Looney/Kruezer rucking with McKernan would be delicious.

No need for Gwilt (despite his solid year), Steinburg or Pears. Better off freeing up a couple of spots and grab a tall to develop in the second or third round of the draft. Harry McKay’s twin brother could be a steal with a pick in the 50s.

I agree with your fwd and ruck set-up. But I can't agree with how you've cut all our 3rd tall defenders. You need at LEAST one for depth. Either Gwilt or Stein. What if Carlsile leaves: who do we play 3rd tall? What if we DO play with Hurley/Hooker/Carlisle and one of them gets injured? Who plays instead with no Gwilt, Fletch, Stein, Pears (or M.Brown)??

In the event that one is injured we might consider more of a Bulldogs defensive setup of smaller mobile defenders. While not many teams have three tall forwards, ours are capable of taking medium sized mobile defenders.

Two months ago I thought Gwilt was needed next year but I’ve changed my mind. I’d prefer to go to the draft and make our recruiters earn their pay. There may even be a younger free agent available who can be the depth option. Pears and Stein are definitely gone (they’ve had plenty of time to prove themselves).

I think reality has set in that it’ll be a 3 to 5 year build so you really can’t hang on to list spots for depth reasons.

Can’t agree. Need Gwilt, if only for cover. We’re short on talls as is, and even if we trade in a couple they’ll take some time to develop. Presumably Fletch is going, and Stein too, which would leave us with FA back-up. And there will be injuries. In any case, think about the VFL side.

The other reason is I don’t think we can afford to cut too deep this year because there may not be replacements for them. Better to keep a few on the list in reserve and cut next year when the draft is said to be better, than to go to market this year needing to fill half a dozen spots or so in draft that doesn’t go much beyond pick 30 in value.

63
No way Gwilt should be delisted especially if Pears and Stein are gone. Oh and Fletch likely to retire too, we'd have no 3rd tall defenders.

He deserves a year’s extension.

If we have Hurley, Carlisle and Hooker down back we have the three best tall defenders in the league.

Daniher, McKernan and Langford are good developing tall forwards.

Bellchambers or Lobbe/Looney/Kruezer rucking with McKernan would be delicious.

No need for Gwilt (despite his solid year), Steinburg or Pears. Better off freeing up a couple of spots and grab a tall to develop in the second or third round of the draft. Harry McKay’s twin brother could be a steal with a pick in the 50s.

I agree with your fwd and ruck set-up. But I can't agree with how you've cut all our 3rd tall defenders. You need at LEAST one for depth. Either Gwilt or Stein. What if Carlsile leaves: who do we play 3rd tall? What if we DO play with Hurley/Hooker/Carlisle and one of them gets injured? Who plays instead with no Gwilt, Fletch, Stein, Pears (or M.Brown)??

In the event that one is injured we might consider more of a Bulldogs defensive setup of smaller mobile defenders. While not many teams have three tall forwards, ours are capable of taking medium sized mobile defenders.

Two months ago I thought Gwilt was needed next year but I’ve changed my mind. I’d prefer to go to the draft and make our recruiters earn their pay. There may even be a younger free agent available who can be the depth option. Pears and Stein are definitely gone (they’ve had plenty of time to prove themselves).

I think reality has set in that it’ll be a 3 to 5 year build so you really can’t hang on to list spots for depth reasons.

64
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

65
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

There are not many ‘rules’ that work across the board and for all situations. But I kinda like the one that goes “when you’ve earned your spot, you play…till then, improve”.

What you said above applied…ahm…10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today - for Fletch. Can you foresee the future?


No, I cannot see the future…I don’t get the point of your question either.

If we are to improve over the next few years, that improvement is not going to come from a 40 year old player.

Take the sentiment out of it and (imo) now is as good a time as any for Fletch to hang up the boots.

You don’t get the point of my question?
Ok, let me explain.
If you could see the future, say, 10 years ago, when people were calling for Fletch’s retirement, and we had young players in the 2’s, needing games…would you have retired him?

Maybe you would. Maybe you wouldn’t. Tell ya what though - nobody’s choice but his own. If anyone knows when it’s time for him to hang up the boots, it’s Fletch. Everyone at the club knows and agrees with that.

The problem then with your question is that I do not recall people discussing his demise 10 years ago.....but if they were, then I would have been on the side of those wanting to keep him.

Now, ten years have gone by, he’s 40, and whatever sentiment abounds, he is not getting any younger.

Are you old enough to remember the final year for Terry Daniher and Simon Madden…both played out the bulk of that year in the seconds…I don’t want that for Fletch…I really would like to see him get back into the team, retain his fitness and form for the remainder of the year and then retire while he still has a bit left in the tank.

66

But it was freakin’ awesome seeing TD rule the 1992 reserves Grand Final*, leaving his best till late in the game when there was a decent crowd to appreciate it.

  • Sorry, Brad Plain.
67

Far out, I’ve been missing all of the discussions over here.

This will take some catching up.

In the meantime, @benfti,

Ben Jolley : 2 years, 4 games.
Paul Thomas : 1 year, 8 games

Etc etc

68
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

There are not many ‘rules’ that work across the board and for all situations. But I kinda like the one that goes “when you’ve earned your spot, you play…till then, improve”.

What you said above applied…ahm…10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today - for Fletch. Can you foresee the future?


No, I cannot see the future…I don’t get the point of your question either.

If we are to improve over the next few years, that improvement is not going to come from a 40 year old player.

Take the sentiment out of it and (imo) now is as good a time as any for Fletch to hang up the boots.

You don’t get the point of my question?
Ok, let me explain.
If you could see the future, say, 10 years ago, when people were calling for Fletch’s retirement, and we had young players in the 2’s, needing games…would you have retired him?

Maybe you would. Maybe you wouldn’t. Tell ya what though - nobody’s choice but his own. If anyone knows when it’s time for him to hang up the boots, it’s Fletch. Everyone at the club knows and agrees with that.

69

IF we were playing a final tomorrow. who would you want as essendons third tall

Fletcher
Gwilt
Steinberg
Pears

…
Fletcher provides more than Gwilt, stein and pears. And there are no young tall defenders on our list after that - unless Langford turns into a Third tall defender which seems unlikely, and we would hope he becomes a good forward.

If Mckernan develops into the centre half forward Hero Essendon need but didnt ask for then Maybe Carlisle can go back…and we play one of Hurley/Hooker/Carlisle loose/on weakest defender in the Fletcher quarterback role.

70

The real question on Fletch is whether he will still be best 22 three years from now.
I wouldn’t count him out.

71
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

There are not many ‘rules’ that work across the board and for all situations. But I kinda like the one that goes “when you’ve earned your spot, you play…till then, improve”.

What you said above applied…ahm…10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today - for Fletch. Can you foresee the future?


No, I cannot see the future…I don’t get the point of your question either.

If we are to improve over the next few years, that improvement is not going to come from a 40 year old player.

Take the sentiment out of it and (imo) now is as good a time as any for Fletch to hang up the boots.

72
What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He's in the best 22.
The main premise I'm getting from this thread is the need to upgrade our list so as to position it to eventually challenge for a flag.

Fletch will not be there for that next flag, he’s missed 3-4 games already this year through injury and he is potentially taking a spot that could be given to one of our younger players who might develop into a reasonable player over the remainder of this year.

We no longer need him as the backline general as both Hooker and Hurley are capable of filling that role.

I love the guy but it’s time for him to start building his coaching resume.

There are not many ‘rules’ that work across the board and for all situations. But I kinda like the one that goes “when you’ve earned your spot, you play…till then, improve”.

What you said above applied…ahm…10 years ago, 5 years ago, and today - for Fletch. Can you foresee the future?

73
4 years for 3 games - O'Brien 4 years for 7 games - Kav 5 years for 8 games - Browne 3 years for 3 games - Dal

We are a medicore club because we accept this. All those players mentioned there are 22 or older. Which means if they make the senior team by years end, and play every game for the next 2 seasons the will all be around 25 and not have played 50 games.

I’m not saying every player we draft has to be a 200+ game player but if you are not on track to be even a 100 game player, you are not good enough, simple as that.

The great teams of the last decade use this very metric to work out who they flip.

We don’t hence our list is mediocre

4 years for 13 games - Edwards ;) Or, for that matter: 3 years for 10 games - start of Dempsey's career. 3 years for 12 games - start of Jobe's career.

Only one metric is pretty dumb. Sometimes you have to back your judgement, that a kid’s talent is worth persevering with.

We all would agree Hawks are the benchmark (or one of the benchmarks)? Well they’ve done that plenty.
Suckling was originally drafted in Gumby’s draft (after 2006). Didn’t play a game until 2009, didn’t nail down a spot until 2011. Going into 2011 he’d played 6 games in 4 years.
Duryea similar, 2009 draft, didn’t debut until 2013 (first 3 years for 0 games)
Langford was rookied in the 2010 draft, didn’t debut until 2013 (2 years for 0 games)
Breust, rookie in the 2008 draft, didn’t debut until 2011 (2 years for 0 games)

And they obviously had a lot more competition for list spots. That didn’t make them mediocre. It’s part of how they’ve stayed strong for so long.

Not saying any of the kids we’re listing do or don’t qualify for that, and I defiintely agree that we need to be harsher as a rule, but just saying “X years for Y games = delist” isn’t any more than a part of the decision. Different kids come into the system with different levels of readiness for AFL footy.
ie Shauny we know was not expected to do much for his first year or two with us, his running capacity & defensive concentration wasn’t up to par.
Kav they knew had stuffed hammies through his U18s year & was injured again his first year with us, so they expected nothing of his first 2 years.

74

What the heck has Fletch done so wrong, for everyone wanting him out? He’s in the best 22.

75
I'm brutal, but I think we criminally overate our list, the club, and blitz

The start reality is that a lot of that list have either not shown or are yet to show, that they are capable of playing AFL football. If a player has been on the list 3 years or more, and has yet to show they can even make the grade, they sure as ■■■■ are not going to be anything more than middling players at best. We hang on to injury prone players far to long.

Going into next season we need 30 guys who we know are capable of playing AFL football to a moderate level or higher, and the next 8-10 list spots are for development for guys that we hope to usurp the bottom 10 of that 30

Baguley, Mark - 2015 - sign 2 year
Bellchambers, Tom - 2015 - offer up for trade if no takers, offer 1 year at only moderate salary. He is a RF anyway this year
Browne, Alex - 2015 - Delist. Shows signs, but is not durable and still doesnt use it very well.
Carlisle, Jake - 2015 - sign 2 year
Chapman, Paul - 2015 - retire, and get him in to coach our forwards
Dalgleish, Lauchlan - 2015 - Unless he has forced his way into the seniors by the last 4 rounds, delist, another non durable guy
Daniher, Joe - 2015 - 3 year deal
Dempsey, Courtenay - 2015 - Same as Bellchambers, offer up for trade or offer 1 year deal.
Fantasia, Orazio - 2015- Resign on 2 years
Fletcher, Dustin - 2015 - Retire - and straight into the coaching panel.
Gwilt, James - 2015 - Delist
Hams, Will - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal
Kavanagh, Elliott - 2015 - Delist - not up to it.
Melksham, Jake - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal, but make it performance based.
O’Brien, Nick - 2015 - Delist
Pears, Tayte - 2015 - Delist
Stanton, Brent - 2015 - Sign on 1 year (over 30 that should be the rule)
Winderlich, Jason - 2015 - Retire

Stienberg - Delist
Aylett - Take up second year of rookie deal

So thats 3 retirees, 6 delistings, and 2 possible trades.

agressivly trade with picks and players

Upgrade Smack take 5 picks into the draft. Bring in 2 Free agents, and another rookie.

I cant say this enough, if you have been on the list for 3 years or more, and cant get into the senior team, you are not good enough. Love em or hate them, TBC, Dempsey, Stanton, and Melksham are at least capable AFL footballers. Stanton is best 22, everyone here who doesnt think that is a ■■■■■■■■. The other 3 are good depth. Which you need.

We need to do a restructure of our list management team also

I agree with the majority of this. The only problem I have is making all the changes in one year. I can’t see us getting enough talent at the back end of the draft to make it worth delisting the last couple of players.


That all depends on what we might get back though.
If TBC gets a good FA offer and takes it, we’d get either an end-of-first-round pick, or an after-our-second-round pick. If someone wants to trade for him, that’s the sort of value as well.

Say we finish 12th, we’ll start with pick 7/25/43. So already you’re starting off with our best hand since 2008.
Bellcho gets us either 19 or 26. If anyone wants to take Dempsey, you accept pretty much anything to help him get where he wants to go.

So we have 7/25/26/43/61, and probably a pick in the 50s or 60s for Demps.

I’d be upgrading SMack, so that’s our theoretical last pick used, and I’d be drafting Mitch Brown who we will probably need to get done at 43 (but hopefully 61). The other 4 picks, we need a ruck to eventually surpass Giles/SMack, and use the rest on mids/smalls.

I agree with all of that, except the Dempsey bit, unless he wants out I think what he offers, for what he costs, is going to be better than what he would fetch on the open market (as you said a pick in the 60’s) you dont get his speed at that prick range. Plus you need to also consider list changes the year after. Dempsey has shown, more recently than others that his best is better than moderate AFL level.

As for Gwilt that @Westing_Wuckman was asking about, you are right, but as HAP has said, id be giving his spot to Mitch Brown. T
taller and offers a lot of the same skillset but can be more effective on bigger bodies. That being said, I would not be adverse to holding onto him either.


What did Port get Matthew White for? Half a pack of chips, wasn’t it?
I’m not sure Demps is even close to our best side at the moment, and that’s saying a bit. I’ve liked the guy over the journey but he’s a prime candidate.

I’d be aiming to keep at least one of Fletch/Gwilt, and have one of Stein/Brown around too, so we’ve got basically 5 options on the list for the 3 tall back spots.

76
4 years for 3 games - O'Brien 4 years for 7 games - Kav 5 years for 8 games - Browne 3 years for 3 games - Dal

We are a medicore club because we accept this. All those players mentioned there are 22 or older. Which means if they make the senior team by years end, and play every game for the next 2 seasons the will all be around 25 and not have played 50 games.

I’m not saying every player we draft has to be a 200+ game player but if you are not on track to be even a 100 game player, you are not good enough, simple as that.

The great teams of the last decade use this very metric to work out who they flip.

We don’t hence our list is mediocre

I do agree for the most part Ben, though, honestly believe the draft penalties really screwed the list management strategy.
Just how, well we’ll never know, but I dare say, we might have been a little more brutal with our cull the last 2 years if we’d had our full compliment of selections.

Say we retained the 1st and 2nd round picks we lost in 13/14 - All the guys you mention would’ve been in trouble.
We wouldn’t have picked Cooney, maybe not even Chapman + suddenly everything has changed.

We’d propbably have guys like Cripps, McCarthy, Apeness, Lobb, Kennedy Harris or Jarrod Garlett running around on the list and our list would be in much better shape.

77
I'm brutal, but I think we criminally overate our list, the club, and blitz

The start reality is that a lot of that list have either not shown or are yet to show, that they are capable of playing AFL football. If a player has been on the list 3 years or more, and has yet to show they can even make the grade, they sure as ■■■■ are not going to be anything more than middling players at best. We hang on to injury prone players far to long.

Going into next season we need 30 guys who we know are capable of playing AFL football to a moderate level or higher, and the next 8-10 list spots are for development for guys that we hope to usurp the bottom 10 of that 30

Baguley, Mark - 2015 - sign 2 year
Bellchambers, Tom - 2015 - offer up for trade if no takers, offer 1 year at only moderate salary. He is a RF anyway this year
Browne, Alex - 2015 - Delist. Shows signs, but is not durable and still doesnt use it very well.
Carlisle, Jake - 2015 - sign 2 year
Chapman, Paul - 2015 - retire, and get him in to coach our forwards
Dalgleish, Lauchlan - 2015 - Unless he has forced his way into the seniors by the last 4 rounds, delist, another non durable guy
Daniher, Joe - 2015 - 3 year deal
Dempsey, Courtenay - 2015 - Same as Bellchambers, offer up for trade or offer 1 year deal.
Fantasia, Orazio - 2015- Resign on 2 years
Fletcher, Dustin - 2015 - Retire - and straight into the coaching panel.
Gwilt, James - 2015 - Delist
Hams, Will - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal
Kavanagh, Elliott - 2015 - Delist - not up to it.
Melksham, Jake - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal, but make it performance based.
O’Brien, Nick - 2015 - Delist
Pears, Tayte - 2015 - Delist
Stanton, Brent - 2015 - Sign on 1 year (over 30 that should be the rule)
Winderlich, Jason - 2015 - Retire

Stienberg - Delist
Aylett - Take up second year of rookie deal

So thats 3 retirees, 6 delistings, and 2 possible trades.

agressivly trade with picks and players

Upgrade Smack take 5 picks into the draft. Bring in 2 Free agents, and another rookie.

I cant say this enough, if you have been on the list for 3 years or more, and cant get into the senior team, you are not good enough. Love em or hate them, TBC, Dempsey, Stanton, and Melksham are at least capable AFL footballers. Stanton is best 22, everyone here who doesnt think that is a ■■■■■■■■. The other 3 are good depth. Which you need.

We need to do a restructure of our list management team also

I agree with the majority of this. The only problem I have is making all the changes in one year. I can’t see us getting enough talent at the back end of the draft to make it worth delisting the last couple of players.


That all depends on what we might get back though.
If TBC gets a good FA offer and takes it, we’d get either an end-of-first-round pick, or an after-our-second-round pick. If someone wants to trade for him, that’s the sort of value as well.

Say we finish 12th, we’ll start with pick 7/25/43. So already you’re starting off with our best hand since 2008.
Bellcho gets us either 19 or 26. If anyone wants to take Dempsey, you accept pretty much anything to help him get where he wants to go.

So we have 7/25/26/43/61, and probably a pick in the 50s or 60s for Demps.

I’d be upgrading SMack, so that’s our theoretical last pick used, and I’d be drafting Mitch Brown who we will probably need to get done at 43 (but hopefully 61). The other 4 picks, we need a ruck to eventually surpass Giles/SMack, and use the rest on mids/smalls.

78
I'm brutal, but I think we criminally overate our list, the club, and blitz

The start reality is that a lot of that list have either not shown or are yet to show, that they are capable of playing AFL football. If a player has been on the list 3 years or more, and has yet to show they can even make the grade, they sure as ■■■■ are not going to be anything more than middling players at best. We hang on to injury prone players far to long.

Going into next season we need 30 guys who we know are capable of playing AFL football to a moderate level or higher, and the next 8-10 list spots are for development for guys that we hope to usurp the bottom 10 of that 30

Baguley, Mark - 2015 - sign 2 year
Bellchambers, Tom - 2015 - offer up for trade if no takers, offer 1 year at only moderate salary. He is a RF anyway this year
Browne, Alex - 2015 - Delist. Shows signs, but is not durable and still doesnt use it very well.
Carlisle, Jake - 2015 - sign 2 year
Chapman, Paul - 2015 - retire, and get him in to coach our forwards
Dalgleish, Lauchlan - 2015 - Unless he has forced his way into the seniors by the last 4 rounds, delist, another non durable guy
Daniher, Joe - 2015 - 3 year deal
Dempsey, Courtenay - 2015 - Same as Bellchambers, offer up for trade or offer 1 year deal.
Fantasia, Orazio - 2015- Resign on 2 years
Fletcher, Dustin - 2015 - Retire - and straight into the coaching panel.
Gwilt, James - 2015 - Delist
Hams, Will - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal
Kavanagh, Elliott - 2015 - Delist - not up to it.
Melksham, Jake - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal, but make it performance based.
O’Brien, Nick - 2015 - Delist
Pears, Tayte - 2015 - Delist
Stanton, Brent - 2015 - Sign on 1 year (over 30 that should be the rule)
Winderlich, Jason - 2015 - Retire

Stienberg - Delist
Aylett - Take up second year of rookie deal

So thats 3 retirees, 6 delistings, and 2 possible trades.

agressivly trade with picks and players

Upgrade Smack take 5 picks into the draft. Bring in 2 Free agents, and another rookie.

I cant say this enough, if you have been on the list for 3 years or more, and cant get into the senior team, you are not good enough. Love em or hate them, TBC, Dempsey, Stanton, and Melksham are at least capable AFL footballers. Stanton is best 22, everyone here who doesnt think that is a ■■■■■■■■. The other 3 are good depth. Which you need.

We need to do a restructure of our list management team also

I agree with the majority of this. The only problem I have is making all the changes in one year. I can’t see us getting enough talent at the back end of the draft to make it worth delisting the last couple of players.

79
I'm brutal, but I think we criminally overate our list, the club, and blitz

The start reality is that a lot of that list have either not shown or are yet to show, that they are capable of playing AFL football. If a player has been on the list 3 years or more, and has yet to show they can even make the grade, they sure as ■■■■ are not going to be anything more than middling players at best. We hang on to injury prone players far to long.

Going into next season we need 30 guys who we know are capable of playing AFL football to a moderate level or higher, and the next 8-10 list spots are for development for guys that we hope to usurp the bottom 10 of that 30

Baguley, Mark - 2015 - sign 2 year
Bellchambers, Tom - 2015 - offer up for trade if no takers, offer 1 year at only moderate salary. He is a RF anyway this year
Browne, Alex - 2015 - Delist. Shows signs, but is not durable and still doesnt use it very well.
Carlisle, Jake - 2015 - sign 2 year
Chapman, Paul - 2015 - retire, and get him in to coach our forwards
Dalgleish, Lauchlan - 2015 - Unless he has forced his way into the seniors by the last 4 rounds, delist, another non durable guy
Daniher, Joe - 2015 - 3 year deal
Dempsey, Courtenay - 2015 - Same as Bellchambers, offer up for trade or offer 1 year deal.
Fantasia, Orazio - 2015- Resign on 2 years
Fletcher, Dustin - 2015 - Retire - and straight into the coaching panel.
Gwilt, James - 2015 - Delist
Hams, Will - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal
Kavanagh, Elliott - 2015 - Delist - not up to it.
Melksham, Jake - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal, but make it performance based.
O’Brien, Nick - 2015 - Delist
Pears, Tayte - 2015 - Delist
Stanton, Brent - 2015 - Sign on 1 year (over 30 that should be the rule)
Winderlich, Jason - 2015 - Retire

Stienberg - Delist
Aylett - Take up second year of rookie deal

So thats 3 retirees, 6 delistings, and 2 possible trades.

agressivly trade with picks and players

Upgrade Smack take 5 picks into the draft. Bring in 2 Free agents, and another rookie.

I cant say this enough, if you have been on the list for 3 years or more, and cant get into the senior team, you are not good enough. Love em or hate them, TBC, Dempsey, Stanton, and Melksham are at least capable AFL footballers. Stanton is best 22, everyone here who doesnt think that is a ■■■■■■■■. The other 3 are good depth. Which you need.

We need to do a restructure of our list management team also

You make a lot of sense. In particular you make 5000 times more sense than I do. So not having a go at you, just probing your rationale a bit.

I know this thread is about players out of contract at the end of this year, but here’s a name I’d like your opinion on. David Myers. Yes he has played good footy at AFL level, but he is also either not overly durable (or had bad luck, or injury prone or however you want to put it). In your opinion, should we look to move him on when his contract expires at the end of 2016? Can we think of him in terms of when Jason Winderlich was his age, for purposes of durability? Thinking about how many games are we honestly going to get out of him over the next few years.*

Also love him or hate him, James Gwilt is a capable and durable AFL footballer - why do you suggest we delist him? As far as I can see that is the one element that does not fit your strategy/rationale. Moreso, why would you delist him if you would also delist Pears and Stienburg? Delisting all three at once removes a lot of depth in one area of the ground.

*For the record I was euphoric when Winderlich re-signed for this year and the team’s form so far this year is evidence of the value of Myers to our side.

80

I’m brutal, but I think we criminally overate our list, the club, and blitz

The start reality is that a lot of that list have either not shown or are yet to show, that they are capable of playing AFL football. If a player has been on the list 3 years or more, and has yet to show they can even make the grade, they sure as ■■■■ are not going to be anything more than middling players at best. We hang on to injury prone players far to long.

Going into next season we need 30 guys who we know are capable of playing AFL football to a moderate level or higher, and the next 8-10 list spots are for development for guys that we hope to usurp the bottom 10 of that 30

Baguley, Mark - 2015 - sign 2 year
Bellchambers, Tom - 2015 - offer up for trade if no takers, offer 1 year at only moderate salary. He is a RF anyway this year
Browne, Alex - 2015 - Delist. Shows signs, but is not durable and still doesnt use it very well.
Carlisle, Jake - 2015 - sign 2 year
Chapman, Paul - 2015 - retire, and get him in to coach our forwards
Dalgleish, Lauchlan - 2015 - Unless he has forced his way into the seniors by the last 4 rounds, delist, another non durable guy
Daniher, Joe - 2015 - 3 year deal
Dempsey, Courtenay - 2015 - Same as Bellchambers, offer up for trade or offer 1 year deal.
Fantasia, Orazio - 2015- Resign on 2 years
Fletcher, Dustin - 2015 - Retire - and straight into the coaching panel.
Gwilt, James - 2015 - Delist
Hams, Will - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal
Kavanagh, Elliott - 2015 - Delist - not up to it.
Melksham, Jake - 2015 - Sign on 2 year deal, but make it performance based.
O’Brien, Nick - 2015 - Delist
Pears, Tayte - 2015 - Delist
Stanton, Brent - 2015 - Sign on 1 year (over 30 that should be the rule)
Winderlich, Jason - 2015 - Retire

Stienberg - Delist
Aylett - Take up second year of rookie deal

So thats 3 retirees, 6 delistings, and 2 possible trades.

agressivly trade with picks and players

Upgrade Smack take 5 picks into the draft. Bring in 2 Free agents, and another rookie.

I cant say this enough, if you have been on the list for 3 years or more, and cant get into the senior team, you are not good enough. Love em or hate them, TBC, Dempsey, Stanton, and Melksham are at least capable AFL footballers. Stanton is best 22, everyone here who doesnt think that is a ■■■■■■■■. The other 3 are good depth. Which you need.

We need to do a restructure of our list management team also