I'm sorry, is the question being asked now simply what is consciousness?
I'm sorry, is the question being asked now simply what is consciousness?
I don't know what the question is but the answer will almost certainly be "Aliens, man. ALIENS"
I believe that our entire reality is about our consciousness, so yes, it is relevant to a discussion about how we perceive magic tricks which are inexplicable to the rational mind.
In an experiment I read about, the motor cortex of a patient‘s brain, which causes the patient to raise their arm in front of them, was electronically stimulated causing the arm to rise up. The patient was asked “Are you moving your arm?†He replied “No, I am not.â€
But when the patient was asked to move his arm to the side, the patient could move his arm. And when asked the same question he responded “Now I am moving my arm.†Who is this “I am†presence who is doing the moving? And why does it not feel involved in the activity when the brain is being artificially stimulated?
If our brain is the source of who we are, then any stimulation thereof which resulted in motion should give us the perception that it is us who is doing the moving, but because this is not the case, it is indicative that our brain is not who we are, that the brain and body are only superficially related to who we are, and that the brain most certainly is not the source of who we are.
Interesting, I think. ;)
I believe that our entire reality is about our consciousness, so yes, it is relevant to a discussion about how we perceive magic tricks which are inexplicable to the rational mind.
In an experiment I read about, the motor cortex of a patient‘s brain, which causes the patient to raise their arm in front of them, was electronically stimulated causing the arm to rise up. The patient was asked “Are you moving your arm?†He replied “No, I am not.â€
But when the patient was asked to move his arm to the side, the patient could move his arm. And when asked the same question he responded “Now I am moving my arm.†Who is this “I am†presence who is doing the moving? And why does it not feel involved in the activity when the brain is being artificially stimulated?
If our brain is the source of who we are, then any stimulation thereof which resulted in motion should give us the perception that it is us who is doing the moving, but because this is not the case, it is indicative that our brain is not who we are, that the brain and body are only superficially related to who we are, and that the brain most certainly is not the source of who we are.
Interesting, I think. ;)
You a Deeprak Chopra fan Vinnie?
I believe that our entire reality is about our consciousness, so yes, it is relevant to a discussion about how we perceive magic tricks which are inexplicable to the rational mind.
In an experiment I read about, the motor cortex of a patient‘s brain, which causes the patient to raise their arm in front of them, was electronically stimulated causing the arm to rise up. The patient was asked “Are you moving your arm?†He replied “No, I am not.â€
But when the patient was asked to move his arm to the side, the patient could move his arm. And when asked the same question he responded “Now I am moving my arm.†Who is this “I am†presence who is doing the moving? And why does it not feel involved in the activity when the brain is being artificially stimulated?
If our brain is the source of who we are, then any stimulation thereof which resulted in motion should give us the perception that it is us who is doing the moving, but because this is not the case, it is indicative that our brain is not who we are, that the brain and body are only superficially related to who we are, and that the brain most certainly is not the source of who we are.
Interesting, I think. ;)
You a Deeprak Chopra fan Vinnie?
I wouldn't say a fan, no. Some of his stuff is certainly worth thinking about. When people charge $70k a presentation you start to think hmmmm. Rightly or wrongly you begin to question their motivation. You know?
But yes that was a Deepak example. I didn't disclose that because I wanted people to look at the example rather than discussing Chopra (just as you have now done). Trust you to bring his name up. :P
I believe that our entire reality is about our consciousness, so yes, it is relevant to a discussion about how we perceive magic tricks which are inexplicable to the rational mind.
In an experiment I read about, the motor cortex of a patient‘s brain, which causes the patient to raise their arm in front of them, was electronically stimulated causing the arm to rise up. The patient was asked “Are you moving your arm?†He replied “No, I am not.â€
But when the patient was asked to move his arm to the side, the patient could move his arm. And when asked the same question he responded “Now I am moving my arm.†Who is this “I am†presence who is doing the moving? And why does it not feel involved in the activity when the brain is being artificially stimulated?
If our brain is the source of who we are, then any stimulation thereof which resulted in motion should give us the perception that it is us who is doing the moving, but because this is not the case, it is indicative that our brain is not who we are, that the brain and body are only superficially related to who we are, and that the brain most certainly is not the source of who we are.
Interesting, I think. ;)
You a Deeprak Chopra fan Vinnie?
I wouldn't say a fan, no. Some of his stuff is certainly worth thinking about. When people charge $70k a presentation you start to think hmmmm. Rightly or wrongly you begin to question their motivation. You know?
But yes that was a Deepak example. I didn't disclose that because I wanted people to look at the example rather than discussing Chopra (just as you have now done). Trust you to bring his name up. :P
The invisible unfolds through subtle acceptance
I think a good example of magic is Volition/will.
Where does that come from? Im choosing to do X. And then X happens. so many mystery's right in front of us.
Conscience/Sentience isn't magic, it's neuroscience.
It would be like saying space is magic, just because we don't fully understand it's workings doesn't mean it just happens.
If we describe "magic" as "that which is not understood by most of the population", then there's a hell of a lot of magic happening and that slice of the population is growing & growing & growing...
Biology is magic.
Technology is magic.
Space - magic.
Evolution? DEFINITELY MAGIC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM3ykGr6Nj4
Post reported brem.
The invisible unfolds through subtle acceptance
Evolution unfolds into existential brains.
I think a good example of magic is Volition/will.
Where does that come from? Im choosing to do X. And then X happens. so many mystery's right in front of us.
Conscience/Sentience isn't magic, it's neuroscience.
It would be like saying space is magic, just because we don't fully understand it's workings doesn't mean it just happens.
In your materialist and reductionist opinion, Neuroscience does not explain intentionality, subjectivity or what conciseness actually is.
And i said "like" magic, meaning if there was anything in this world i would describe as close to magic as i can see, it would be volition.
To say,... im going to raise my arm, and then raise my arm, it is like magic as magic is described, (im going to pull a rabbit from my hat, i pull a rabbit from my hat) where does the raising of my arm come from? biological process?
We know that a concious raising of the arm is through biological process no doubt, but we do not know that conciousness is from a biological process.
If it is from biological process, then why have it? complex machines do not need conciousness to operate.
I cant see this hard problem of Conciousness ever being solved to be honest.
The main error here is the assumption that consciousness makes decisions. While it seems like that intuitively neurological tests have shown that that part of the brain is only active once a decision has been made. Sometimes it only becomes active after the behaviour (in the tests this is usually pressing a button) has been completed. So your conscious self is aware of the decisions your brain makes but not directly involved in the process.
The ability of an animal, including humans, to form a concept of the mind of another animal is called a Theory of Mind. A Theory of Mind is useful for predators to predict the behaviour of prey and also for social animals to predict the behaviour of members of their group. I think that our consciousness is a Theory of Mind for ourselves and that it serves a useful purpose in terms of providing the decision making process knowledge of our long term wants and needs, rather than just being driven emotions and impulses. As evidence of this, large number of mental disorders seem to involve a deficient Theory of Mind and/or consciousness. For example: autism, dissociation, personality disorders, psychosis and schizoid disorders. Impulse control is very poor in many of the people with these disorders and they often find it difficult to achieve long term goals. However they are still capable of making decisions. I have dissociative depersonalisation disorder. When it is severe I can't recognise myself or my surroundings. My conscious self can be completely suppressed. My ability to perceive the future is limited and I'm completely amnesic to the past. However, I can still walk around and do stuff normally, albeit with all the confusion and terror that comes with feeling like I'm trapped in a stranger's body.
The invisible unfolds through subtle acceptance
Evolution unfolds into existential brains.
Mice are horses
The invisible unfolds through subtle acceptance
Evolution unfolds into existential brains.
Mice are horses
The invisible unfolds through subtle acceptance
Evolution unfolds into existential brains.
Mice are horses
I'm Idaho.
I've been doing some more thinking on this topic.
I watched a presentation by Gregg Braden which may throw some light on the topic. It's a long video but well worth the effort. How can I put it? Supernatural may be simply another way of saying the natural which we don't understand - yet.
I watched the Braden video yesterday and then coincidentally I watched Dynamo last night.
Dynamo was in Spain and he goes into this bar and sits down with the two owners (I think they were the owners). Then he asks for a napkin. He hands a big thick marker to the two men and asks them to sign the napkin in big bold writing. Then he asks one of the men to take the napkin fold it up and put it in his pocket. Dynamo doesn't touch the napkin after he hands the blank napkin to the men prior to them signing it.
After that he gets up from the table and goes to another part of the bar where the men have dozens of photos of themselves on the wall, taken in the past in the bar on different occasions. He says to the men "Have you seen me before?" They say "No." And Dynamo says "And I've never seen you or been in this bar before. But how do you explain this photo? When was this taken?" The guys look at the photo quickly "Oh yeah that was about 12 months ago." Dynamo: "Look at it closely, look at the background." The men: "Holy Crap!" The camera focuses in on the photo. In the background you can see Dynamo holding up the napkin and you can make out the signatures on it. It exactly matches the napkin they just signed.
Now, the show may be a complete set up for all I know. But if it's not, what Dynamo did was beyond scientific explanation - or was it? Braden's presentation, in a scientific way, seems to open the door for things like that being possible.
4 hours? Seems legit.
Less VD being a iriot and more Youtube plz
Derren Brown by far my favorite magician/illusionist/mentalist. His 'The Experiments' series was amazing. Especially where he convinces an atheist that God exists, and convinces someone to confess to a murder they never committed,
He really shows how suggestible and gullible people are and the methods used to convince someone that the laws of nature can be suspended.
http://youtu.be/A1Xop411uKE
Just watch those 'Magic: The Secrets Revealed' episodes. There is years of planning involved and getting audience members who the magician has apparently never met.
Guys like Dynamo and David Blaine who do strange things in public have almost undoubtedly paid of the people to whom they are performing; with exception to their cards tricks which is all double lift and slight of hand. Again, with years of practice.
You can even watch instructional YouTube videos from 'common joe's who can replicate their card tricks.
Freeing your mind doesn't mean filling gaps in your knowledge with fantasies.
The usual name calling and insults in response to an intelligent post. Ho hum. :rolleyes:
How'd your carnival go, Vinnie?