Draft wrap up

Football Discussion Trade week Duursma head in
203
But but but Benfti said we had a terrible draft and we didn't pick his favorite players. May as well tear up my membership right now.

I trust our club recruiters as they have done an excellent job over the last 3 to 4 drafts. Sorry but I can’t stand these so called amateur experts blowing off, who we should have taken. I will trust our professional recruiters not our amateur experts.

If you can’t stand it maybe don’t read the thread created specifically to discuss people’s opinions on the draft? I mean, if you want to disagree with people, go wild. But perhaps just telling people that they shouldn’t have an opinion isn’t very constructive.

Yes I agree everyone has a opinion but gee why sook and be negative about the players we pick.

204
But but but Benfti said we had a terrible draft and we didn't pick his favorite players. May as well tear up my membership right now.

I trust our club recruiters as they have done an excellent job over the last 3 to 4 drafts. Sorry but I can’t stand these so called amateur experts blowing off, who we should have taken. I will trust our professional recruiters not our amateur experts.

If you can’t stand it maybe don’t read the thread created specifically to discuss people’s opinions on the draft? I mean, if you want to disagree with people, go wild. But perhaps just telling people that they shouldn’t have an opinion isn’t very constructive.

Yes I agree everyone has a opinion but gee why sook and be negative about the players we pick.

You can sook and give your opinion on the drafts and trades board all you like in my opinion. Why? Because it is about trying to assess how we went.

If you take that over to the “Welcome to EFC ****” threads though, you are a bit of a dumbarse.

Benfti and HM would never do that, and I for one value their opinion highly.

205
From Gary Buckenara in the Herald Sun:

Essendon would be happy with what they did. Andy McGrath with pick No.1 is a powerful player who breaks the lines, uses the ball extremely well and is dynamic. I have no doubt he will slot into Essendon’s best team next year. I like the selections of Jordan Ridley, Kobe Mutch and Dylan Clarke but Josh Begley was a bit of a surprise. Begley has a big body and probably hasn’t done much in terms of pre-season so there should be some big improvement in him and won’t be intimidated at AFL level but it’s whether he’ll be able to adapt. Ridley has the body to play next year, as does Mutch and Clarke but with a number of players coming back from suspension, expect most of these guys to develop through the VFL.

Bucky’s verdict: The Bombers did very well, as you’d expect with the No.1 pick plus some other high selections. They brought in some pace, which was an area that needed to be bolstered so that’s a big tick. I had Clarke ranked in my top 50 and they were able to get him at No.63.

Also:

Essendon has emerged as one of the big winners from the AFL draft

KATE SALEMME, Herald Sun
November 26, 2016 8:38pm

ESSENDON has emerged as one of the big winners from Friday night’s national draft, but not entirely as a result of its prized No. 1 selection.

The Bombers took Sandringham’s Andy McGrath with the first pick, narrowly ahead of Hugh McCluggage and Will Setterfield, but it was the players taken with later selections that caught the eye of ex-Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara.

Kobe Mutch landed at Essendon with pick No. 42 after GWS opted not to match the bid for its academy midfielder, while Eastern Ranges onballer Dylan Clarke — taken at No. 63 — was one of the sliders.

Buckenara, who revealed his top 50 draft talents in an exclusive for the Herald Sun in the lead-up to the draft, had Mutch ranked at No. 13 and Clarke at 40.

“Essendon would be very pleased with their effort,” Buckenara told the Herald Sun.

“Probably out of the Victorian clubs, I would have thought Essendon did the best.

“To me it seems like Essendon did their homework on the talent and the talent flow very well and added more good young players to come onto that list. They’ve got a good haul.

“Mutch was Bendigo’s best player. He’s a nice size, he kicks the ball really well on both sides of his body and is a bit of a playmaker. He has some x-factor.

“He could end up being a really good AFL player if he develops and improves himself in the AFL environment, he has some real upside.

“I rated him pretty highly and to get him where they did was a very good pick.

“Clarke is still improving but he’ll be that really athletic midfielder. He’s very good at stoppages and wins his own ball inside, he just needs to do a little bit of work on his kicking.

“Outside of that he’s a nice sized midfielder with a good strong body.

“Both were rated highly in this draft and to get them late was a great result.”

Mutch and Clarke will join prized recruit McGrath, Jordan Ridley (No. 22) and Josh Begley (No. 31) at Essendon next year.

Buckenara expects McGrath to step straight into coach John Worsfold’s best 22, while he believes Ridley, Mutch and Clarke are all capable of playing senior football in 2017.

After rating McCluggage as the best player in this year’s draft pool, Buckenara wasn’t surprised to see him edged by classy halfback/midfielder McGrath.

“They’re both really good players,” Buckenara said. “We said it was a toss of the coin and they made the call they think is right but only time will tell whether it’s the right one over McCluggage.

“Both were highly touted players for picks one or two and I’m happy for it (to be McGrath).

“McGrath is a powerful player, a great talent and certainly has that ability to break the lines, change direction and use the ball well. He’s a dynamic type of player.

“Hopefully the number one mantle doesn’t affect him too much and he’ll just get on and continue his improvement.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-has-emerged-as-one-of-the-big-winners-from-the-afl-draft/news-story/8f5de4a1e0903976b1f932d552b99268

Shove that in your socks and smoke it doubters!

Did Humble Minion read this?

He did. Not sure what the point of the question was though.

Both Buckenara and I rate McCluggage as the best talent. Neither of us were surprised to see McGrath picked first. Both of us expect McGrath to be a very good player who’ll be playing AFL very soon.

None of this should be a surprise to anyone.

206

I don’t think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion’s methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

207

Its going to be interesting with McCluggage and how he develops. Going to Brisbane and the system there will not do him any favours. Will still be a fine player but he might not reach his full potential there.

208
From Gary Buckenara in the Herald Sun:

Essendon would be happy with what they did. Andy McGrath with pick No.1 is a powerful player who breaks the lines, uses the ball extremely well and is dynamic. I have no doubt he will slot into Essendon’s best team next year. I like the selections of Jordan Ridley, Kobe Mutch and Dylan Clarke but Josh Begley was a bit of a surprise. Begley has a big body and probably hasn’t done much in terms of pre-season so there should be some big improvement in him and won’t be intimidated at AFL level but it’s whether he’ll be able to adapt. Ridley has the body to play next year, as does Mutch and Clarke but with a number of players coming back from suspension, expect most of these guys to develop through the VFL.

Bucky’s verdict: The Bombers did very well, as you’d expect with the No.1 pick plus some other high selections. They brought in some pace, which was an area that needed to be bolstered so that’s a big tick. I had Clarke ranked in my top 50 and they were able to get him at No.63.

Also:

Essendon has emerged as one of the big winners from the AFL draft

KATE SALEMME, Herald Sun
November 26, 2016 8:38pm

ESSENDON has emerged as one of the big winners from Friday night’s national draft, but not entirely as a result of its prized No. 1 selection.

The Bombers took Sandringham’s Andy McGrath with the first pick, narrowly ahead of Hugh McCluggage and Will Setterfield, but it was the players taken with later selections that caught the eye of ex-Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara.

Kobe Mutch landed at Essendon with pick No. 42 after GWS opted not to match the bid for its academy midfielder, while Eastern Ranges onballer Dylan Clarke — taken at No. 63 — was one of the sliders.

Buckenara, who revealed his top 50 draft talents in an exclusive for the Herald Sun in the lead-up to the draft, had Mutch ranked at No. 13 and Clarke at 40.

“Essendon would be very pleased with their effort,” Buckenara told the Herald Sun.

“Probably out of the Victorian clubs, I would have thought Essendon did the best.

“To me it seems like Essendon did their homework on the talent and the talent flow very well and added more good young players to come onto that list. They’ve got a good haul.

“Mutch was Bendigo’s best player. He’s a nice size, he kicks the ball really well on both sides of his body and is a bit of a playmaker. He has some x-factor.

“He could end up being a really good AFL player if he develops and improves himself in the AFL environment, he has some real upside.

“I rated him pretty highly and to get him where they did was a very good pick.

“Clarke is still improving but he’ll be that really athletic midfielder. He’s very good at stoppages and wins his own ball inside, he just needs to do a little bit of work on his kicking.

“Outside of that he’s a nice sized midfielder with a good strong body.

“Both were rated highly in this draft and to get them late was a great result.”

Mutch and Clarke will join prized recruit McGrath, Jordan Ridley (No. 22) and Josh Begley (No. 31) at Essendon next year.

Buckenara expects McGrath to step straight into coach John Worsfold’s best 22, while he believes Ridley, Mutch and Clarke are all capable of playing senior football in 2017.

After rating McCluggage as the best player in this year’s draft pool, Buckenara wasn’t surprised to see him edged by classy halfback/midfielder McGrath.

“They’re both really good players,” Buckenara said. “We said it was a toss of the coin and they made the call they think is right but only time will tell whether it’s the right one over McCluggage.

“Both were highly touted players for picks one or two and I’m happy for it (to be McGrath).

“McGrath is a powerful player, a great talent and certainly has that ability to break the lines, change direction and use the ball well. He’s a dynamic type of player.

“Hopefully the number one mantle doesn’t affect him too much and he’ll just get on and continue his improvement.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-has-emerged-as-one-of-the-big-winners-from-the-afl-draft/news-story/8f5de4a1e0903976b1f932d552b99268

Shove that in your socks and smoke it doubters!

Did Humble Minion read this?

He did. Not sure what the point of the question was though.

Both Buckenara and I rate McCluggage as the best talent. Neither of us were surprised to see McGrath picked first. Both of us expect McGrath to be a very good player who’ll be playing AFL very soon.

None of this should be a surprise to anyone.

Only logical conclusion: you are Gary Buckenara.

The prosecution rests, your honour.

209
But but but Benfti said we had a terrible draft and we didn't pick his favorite players. May as well tear up my membership right now.

I trust our club recruiters as they have done an excellent job over the last 3 to 4 drafts. Sorry but I can’t stand these so called amateur experts blowing off, who we should have taken. I will trust our professional recruiters not our amateur experts.

If you can’t stand it maybe don’t read the thread created specifically to discuss people’s opinions on the draft? I mean, if you want to disagree with people, go wild. But perhaps just telling people that they shouldn’t have an opinion isn’t very constructive.

Yes I agree everyone has a opinion but gee why sook and be negative about the players we pick.

I think it’s mostly venting. People who follow along, experts or not (almost entirely not), form strong opinions about various players. Same thing happens in every match thread, every team selection thread, every end of season list management thread, every trade thread. For a lot of people, if they didn’t care enough to get angry they wouldn’t have cared enough to get through the last four years and still want to watch football. It’s two sides of the same coin.

210
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

211
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

For fairness sake, can you also list the research you’ve done regarding non-indigenous players?

212
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

A more accurate description is people choose to look at what I post through very different glasses.

If you go back to my post draft recap you will see my issues have very little to do with “my guys” not being picked by us. If I was picking in our spots only one of them would have been picked (Rioli at 43)

But what ever.

213

Most appreciate both your insight and passion benfti.

214

I never post on here, reasons why is that I have zero inside information on our club and no information on players and the wider afl community, especially since moving to Brisbane 18 months ago, but also probably has a lot to do with my own personal insecurities.

I love coming to this site to get some information. I enjoy reading the personal opinions of people who have far more knowledge than I (and some who don’t), getting some inside info from time to time and occasionally reading some great debates on topics I find really interesting - all with a strong Essendon bias.

There are some people on here that when I see a post from them I make sure that I always read every word, these people include Benfti and Humble Minion. I enjoy that they give opinions based on knowledge and reason’s for their opinions. I don’t always agree with what they have written but appreciate them giving it. They also are able to debate opinions without personal attacks on those debating them, they can articulate thoughts and I think they actually enjoy open discussion on topics (the reason this very forum exists). I just wish that all of those who do post opposite opinions could keep to topic without making the debate turn into personal attacks, especially the default indigenous lines people resort to when they can’t back up what they are saying, as I fear that will turn more people to be like me and not post which I think we would all be poorer for.

215
I don't see mcgrath ironing out other players.

Thats Begbies role.

216

You should post more often soita

217
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

  • Michael Long
  • Nicky Winmar
  • Gavin Wanganeen
  • Nathan Lovett-Murray
  • Adam Goodes
  • Michael O’Loughlin

This is just off field importance not even considering ability

So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And I’m not sure why more on this site aren’t being called out for it

218
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

  • Michael Long
  • Nicky Winmar
  • Gavin Wanganeen
  • Nathan Lovett-Murray
  • Adam Goodes
  • Michael O’Loughlin

This is just off field importance not even considering ability

So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And I’m not sure why more on this site aren’t being called out for it

Because your examples are a decade old and the best of all time?
And while I’m no acolyte of G, Deckham if you have an opposing view then make it.
You don’t ask the person who makes the first point to make your counter-point for you. Make it yourself or shut up.

Were clubs better at developing aboriginal talent a decade ago?
I don’t know.
But recent history…G has a prima face case.
Don’t just lazily call him racist.

Edit: also, Michael O’Loughlin? Not sure you want to go there.

219
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

  • Michael Long
  • Nicky Winmar
  • Gavin Wanganeen
  • Nathan Lovett-Murray
  • Adam Goodes
  • Michael O’Loughlin

This is just off field importance not even considering ability

So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And I’m not sure why more on this site aren’t being called out for it

Because your examples are a decade old and the best of all time?
And while I’m no acolyte of G, Deckham if you have an opposing view then make it.
You don’t ask the person who makes the first point to make your counter-point for you. Make it yourself or shut up.

Were clubs better at developing aboriginal talent a decade ago?
I don’t know.
But recent history…G has a prima face case.
Don’t just lazily call him racist.

Edit: also, Michael O’Loughlin? Not sure you want to go there.

How about the best club in the country over the past 5 years.
Rioli
Burgoyne
Hill
Franklin

220
I don't think anyone has any problems with Humble Minion's methods and explanations.

Benfti looks at the world through very different glasses.

And at the risk of being called a…

  • Shane Yarran (just charged with aggravated assault)
  • Yestin Eades (delisted after 1 season after showing lack of application/professionalism)
  • Jarred Pickett (former pick 4 in 2014 draft - traded for scraps)
  • Jarrod Garlett (former pick 15 in 2014 draft - walked away from AFL)
  • Dayle Garlett (jailed for almost 5 years on a string of offences including home burglary, car theft, stealing, and reckless driving)
  • Harley Bennell (former pick 2 - traded for unders due to drug issues and being a professional headcase)

This is just from draftees over the last few years… and there are other examples (see Chris Yarran).

  • Michael Long
  • Nicky Winmar
  • Gavin Wanganeen
  • Nathan Lovett-Murray
  • Adam Goodes
  • Michael O’Loughlin

This is just off field importance not even considering ability

So yeah I am gonna call you a racist. And I’m not sure why more on this site aren’t being called out for it

Because your examples are a decade old and the best of all time?
And while I’m no acolyte of G, Deckham if you have an opposing view then make it.
You don’t ask the person who makes the first point to make your counter-point for you. Make it yourself or shut up.

Were clubs better at developing aboriginal talent a decade ago?
I don’t know.
But recent history…G has a prima face case.
Don’t just lazily call him racist.

Edit: also, Michael O’Loughlin? Not sure you want to go there.

How about the best club in the country over the past 5 years.
Rioli
Burgoyne
Hill
Franklin

Because I’m not Bruce I’d only say Franklin in the same breath as the others you mentioned.
But dude. You’re not arguing with me.
You haven’t started arguing with G yet either.

221
I'm confused. Jackets was surprised because there was no draft "sliders" available at 20? So everyone went where we expected them to go and yet we didn't plan for it?

There are so many potential ways draft night can go, that it would be impossible to plan for every eventuality. There’s 18 teams of recruiters and hundreds of kids with draft potential. Even just for the top 20, there would be say 40-60 players in contention for those picks, and that’s not even considering the flow on effect they have on the later picks.

I can’t be bothered doing the maths on the breakdown of possible outcomes and all the variables involved, but the numbers would be very, very high. Way too high to be able to predict all possibilities on the night.

Dodoro has an interesting philosophy about draft. He says first rounder is for elite kids and 2nd is for kids with the most upside.

Now even if a elite kid slides it seems he would pick the kid with the most upside.

When you think about it Steinberg over Parker is based on this philosophy.


I wouldn’t read too much into the exact draft numbers. The number of “blue chip” talents is going to vary from year to year and recruiter to recruiter, before you start to get into players with potential upside.
222

I was thrilled with the McGrath pick but them I am an unabashed fan of Andy. That said, I totally understand those in the McCluggage camp, he looks like he is going to be really special too. I haven’t seen Setterfield in the flesh so I’m not in a position to comment on where he might sit but through the games I saw at the Champs and in the TAC Cup I felt like McGrath and McCluggage really did separate themselves from the field by a fair way in the end so I’m happy to trust Dodoro and co. Ultimately, I think both of these boys are going to be in the 10-15 players in the competition in 5 or 6 years so it really was happy days either way.

Happy enough with Ridley given what was left on the board at that point. I was really hoping one of Gallucci, Berry or Veneables might slip. Or even English seemed to be a chance in the few days leading up. Sadly though, the 1st round pretty much went as per all the phantom drafts out there and unlike any funky Melbourne bar over the past few year sliders were not on the menu. If I had the pick I probably would have gone with Shai Bolton but as an upside pick I get it. When I did see Ridley play he did have the occasional moments of showing something really special but there was a lot of pretty anonymous play in there too. I guess once there wasn’t a standout available I do understand rolling the dice on a guy that might be 90% likely to be Mark Bolton for the 10% chance he might turn into Adam Goodes.

Begley…wow. I saw more Eastern Ranges games than any other TAC Cup team and I would not have rated this guy 2nd round talent. I saw him play a really good game at Box Hill Oval but mostly he wasn’t a real standout in any of the other games I got to. I think he showed enough to get drafted but I thought 29 was a reach. There was probably three other guys at Eastern (Maibaum, Clarke and Brown) that I would have seen getting drafted before him. That said, when you see the highlights there does look like there is something there and I think when you go along to see specific players you can miss guys. In Jackets we trust.

Haven’t seen Mutch in the flesh. Didn’t get to any Div 2 games at the Carnival and didn’t see Bendigo play so I have nothing of value to add. People I trust on the inter webs seem to like him and his highlights look good so…yeah, I guess. I probably would have liked Darcy Cameron here just for where the list is currently sitting but again, haven’t seen Mutch play.

Come on down Dylan Clarke! Firstly, I saw plenty of Eastern Ranges games this year so there is definitely a chance that I have a bias to what is front of me. That said, I think he is great value get at where we picked him. He’s combative, great at getting the ball of stoppages and is probably a better athlete and has better endurance than your bog standard inside mid. What he is not is a good kick. I really like this kid but as HM said in another thread do not pay attention to the kicking test results at the combine. Delighted to pick him up where we got him but the kicking still needs plenty of work in both penetration and accuracy.

Ultimately, judging a draft 3 days out is pretty much the definition of futile but hey its fun to pontificate to so why not declare Friday a disaster/triumph about three years before such claims can really have any basis in reality :smile: