I’m back to work tomorrow after the Xmas break. Was feeling pretty down about it then gratitude hit that my Italian father said ■■■■ Carlton & started the legacy of supporting the mighty Bombers.
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He is waiting for Mitchell to do it first
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There’s no doubt they have underperformed for some years with a very talented list, and I’ll be only too pleased if it continues.
But as I tell my son about the Brownlow, you almost always have to be a great player in a poor midfield to win one of those. To some degree the same is true about the Coleman. The team has to have few scoring options forward for someone to win it.
For a team to be in contention for a flag, they really need to have several mids good enough to take maximum points away from the others in different rounds, and need several scoring options in the forward line, so they are rarely in the running for these awards.
I don’t think that’s correct. Without looking it up I reckon more Brownlow medalist have come from finals sides than non-finals sides since the turn of the millenia.
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While that can be true, several winners have won despite being surrounded by a good midfield.
Players like Judd (at WC), Cousins, Ablett Jnr, Bartel, Dangerfield, Ackermanis, Black, the two flogs @ Richmond and Dawks (officially, but they never did), etc.
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A top 8 side can still have one outstanding midfielder in amongst others that aren’t good enough to win maximum points. But it’s much rarer in a premiership team.
EDIT: I mean in the year they win the premiership. Having a gun mid in a team that’s improving may still lead to a flag later on, while they’re still in the team.
I’m not saying Brownlow winners aren’t good players, I’m saying they win points by being better than their team mates, rather than better than the best players in other teams.
Sorry missed that bit or misunderstood.
On the second highlight, yeah well, there are some. Woewoeful comes to mind.
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Got bored so looked it up;
Out of 26 Brownlow winners since the turn of the millenia, only 4 have come from sides outside of the top 8; Ablett, Cotchin*, Fyfe and Judd and Cotchin doesn’t count so 3. Most winners came from stacked midfields who sides finsihed top 4, top of the ladder or Grand Finalist. It’s harder to stand out in a rubbish team with no help when you don’t win many games unless you’re a freak like Ablett, Judd, Fyfe or blag your way to one via a technicality.
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How about from a team that won the premiership that year? I know the last one was Martin in 2017.
My point isn’t that Brownlow winners don’t come from top 8 teams, it’s that the Brownlow winner has to be a lot better than the rest of their own teammates.
Last year, Cripps won with 29 votes, and Neale polled 28 votes. Merrett polled 17 votes. Dangerfield only polled 6 votes.
Was Dangerfield a terrible player last year, or was he surrounded by teammates that were also very good?
Like I said, after a brief glance, most of those brownlow medalist came from sides that finished top 4, top of the ladder or made the grand final, and you’re not getting to those heights in a side with one stand out player. Aker, Black, Ablett, Bartel, Cousins, Judd etc won them in some of the all time great midfields/teams.
Okay, I left out Priddis. Which may be the only one who speaks to your argument. Weagles were rubbish and he stood out because he had fuzzy blonde hair and carried their midfield.
Woewodin said " hold me beer ya flogs"!!!
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Essendon and Richmond finished 11th and 12th in 2012 so 4 remains accurate.
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I’m on leave, so looked into it for fun. I’ll concede that many of the teams that have had a Brownlow winner have performed very well since the turn of the century. I tabled the final ladder position of the teams the Brownlow winners played in for each year, and whether or not they played in a Grand Final. I found the result interesting.
From 2000-2011, the Brownlow winner’s team finished in top four 10 out of 12 years, and played in a Grand Final 9 out of 12 years (giving the benefit of the doubt for 2003, with 3 Brownlow winners)
From 2012 to 2022, the stats are quite different. The Brownlow winner’s team finished in top four 6 out of 11 years, and played in a Grand Final only once in the past 11 years, which was Richmond’s win in 2017.
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what has changed in the last 10-11 years?
Ladder Position of Brownlow winner’s team:
2022 - 9th
2021 - 2nd
2020 - 2nd
2019 - 13th
2018 - 4th
2017 - 3rd (Premiership winners)
2016 - 2nd
2015 - 1st
2014 - 9th
2013 - 13th
2012 - 11th (Jobe)
2011 - 1st (Premiership runner up)
2010 - 8th
2009 - 2nd (Premiership winners)
2008 - 3rd
2007 - 1st (Premiership winners)
2006 - 4th (Premiership runner up)
2005 - 2nd (Premiership runner up)
2004 - 7th
2003 - 3rd, 4th, 11th (Buckley Collingwood Premiership runner up)
2002 - 2nd (Premiership winner)
2001 - 2nd (Premiership winner)
2000 - 3rd (Premiership runner up)
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Two new teams have arrived.
AFL media is having more of an influence on umpires voting?
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too much talk and not enough Fark Carlton.
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The rules?
Injury issues aplenty at Carlton. Seems as if they’re tanking again for another no.1 pick.
Who else is injured? I’d only heard about Walsh.